General Discussion

baldguy

(36,649 posts)

62. Tell that to Randy Weaver, David Koresh and Tim McVeigh.

Sun May 20, 2012, 12:53 PM

May 2012

You want to just give up on this country, and arm for a battle which may never come. The simple fact is that your solution for that battle in the improbable future causes more problems today than they can ever hope to solve tomorrow. The battle you seek will not even occur if we do our duty as citizens today, and fight the battles which need to be fought today. And we don't fight today's battles with firearms - we fight them with ideas.

The solution for the few inept, corrupt and physically violent members of law enforcement isn't to make them confront an armed populace every working day. Your solution would just make them more fearful, more violent & more corrupt. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE TOTALITARIANS ON THE RIGHT WANT! Your guns won't protect you!

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Do the police think that they are gods? [View all] Zalatix May 2012 OP

you might want to read norm stamper's article in the Nation, or watch his niyad May 2012 #1

Wow. Sad, but not surprising. Zalatix May 2012 #4

It is chilling. I have read his writings on policing and give him credit for sabrina 1 May 2012 #73

Stamper cites an article from the cato institute DiverDave May 2012 #85

A troubling passage DiverDave May 2012 #93

that is truly disturbing niyad May 2012 #108

This message was self-deleted by its author niyad May 2012 #2

It is far past time we institute federally mandated police standards JFN1 May 2012 #3

That's part of the solution. Zalatix May 2012 #5

+1 nt Poll_Blind May 2012 #7

Government took over the Numbers Racket and called it the Lottery, Downwinder May 2012 #6

Cue "Imperial March Theme". ZM90 May 2012 #8

The militarized goons that call themselves cops hifiguy May 2012 #9

Actually the politicians and Plutocrats who armed and metaphorically roided up these cops Zalatix May 2012 #13

You have a point about police unions. daaron May 2012 #29

They are the lapdogs of an increasingly brutal ruling class. white_wolf May 2012 #10

Unfortunately - true. TBF May 2012 #68

David Icke? pinto May 2012 #11

My points are all documented. There is no conspiratorial fear mongering there at all. Just facts. Zalatix May 2012 #15

...and Ruby Ridge jberryhill May 2012 #16

Yeah, why throw that in? UnrepentantLiberal May 2012 #17

Weaver's son was shot in the back.. Upton May 2012 #46

The sins of the father MUST be visited upon his family! Go USA!!! Zalatix May 2012 #89

Ah, so that's why Randy Weaver's wife deserved to die while holding a baby in her arms. Zalatix May 2012 #86

He had months to get his family out of harms way. UnrepentantLiberal May 2012 #87

That doesn't excuse a law enforcement agent shooting an unarmed woman with a baby in her arms. Zalatix May 2012 #88

All the feds knew is they were being shot at by Neo-Nazi maniacs. UnrepentantLiberal May 2012 #90

And I've already locked you in my cuckoo cellar. Again, there was NO REASON Zalatix May 2012 #91

You weren't there. You don't know. randome May 2012 #92

Firefight or no, there's NO REASON to shoot a woman with a baby in her arms. Zalatix May 2012 #94

Not defending anyone. It was a fuck-up from the start. randome May 2012 #95

Perhaps that's why the jury was so sympathetic to Randy Weaver. Zalatix May 2012 #97

Where did I say I didn't care? randome May 2012 #98

Gotcha, your argument contained sympathy for the mother and the kid she was holding. Zalatix May 2012 #99

Actually Meiko May 2012 #19

He was charged with having a sawed off shotgun UnrepentantLiberal May 2012 #36

David Icke also believes "reptilian beings" control the world ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2012 #143

Please note this video of a man being threatened and arrested for attempting to file a complaint Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #12

Disturbing video ryan_cats May 2012 #96

All I know is what we can see there. Perhaps if you backtrack to the youtube page Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #106

And don't miss this goldmine of examples of undercover cops caught causing trouble: Fire Walk With Me May 2012 #14

K&R DeSwiss May 2012 #18

You are broad brushing an entire group of people treestar May 2012 #20

The cops will do exactly what they're ordered to do. Zalatix May 2012 #21

"ordered to do" by who? The community they serve treestar May 2012 #22

... Fumesucker May 2012 #24

The exception that proves the point. randome May 2012 #25

Just the fact that he felt comfortable doing it is an indictment of our police forces.. Fumesucker May 2012 #27

So what do you recommend be done? treestar May 2012 #118

But that's not what happened in every single case treestar May 2012 #31

When those who are sworn and tasked to uphold the law deliberately break it.. Fumesucker May 2012 #33

No one is arguing the points you make about the Berkley incident. randome May 2012 #37

I was responding to treestar's words.. Fumesucker May 2012 #41

He wasn't 'putting down anything'. randome May 2012 #42

Was it a legal act, spraying those students? Fumesucker May 2012 #43

No, and he would answer for it treestar May 2012 #121

It wasn't a legal act yet many police officers watched it done and never lifted a finger.. Fumesucker May 2012 #128

Judge that when you are a police officer in that situation treestar May 2012 #130

A police officer watching a serious crime being committed? Fumesucker May 2012 #133

Like it or not, there are laws treestar May 2012 #120

There is no evidence that the protesters in the Davis case were breaking the law.. Fumesucker May 2012 #129

How do you know? treestar May 2012 #131

I was speaking of one specific case, one where the morality is clear.. Fumesucker May 2012 #134

Then the fact any teacher ever sexually molested a student treestar May 2012 #119

Do teachers molest students in front of hundreds of cameras? Fumesucker May 2012 #127

What difference does the camera make? treestar May 2012 #132

Deniability, that's the point of the camera.. Fumesucker May 2012 #135

Wow. You probably believe that "police brutality" was a word invented by Oliver Stone. Zalatix May 2012 #30

Mayor Bloomberg was elected by the people! treestar May 2012 #122

And arguments like that are how countries get far worse. Zalatix May 2012 #137

The op is also blurring police and Federal agents to make their points. FSogol May 2012 #48

True. I believe there are reports to file if you even fire a gun treestar May 2012 #114

I am SO FUCKING SICK of that argument to defend police! You are clueless... Logical May 2012 #49

'Every cop...' ? randome May 2012 #50

Well, I have not talked to a cop that didn't admit it. Maybe 100 of them in my lifetime of asking.. Logical May 2012 #52

Dropping charges does not mean someone did not deserve to be arrested. randome May 2012 #53

No it is not good reason. It is actually False Arrest 90% of the time. Are you gullible.... Logical May 2012 #55

I'm not defending ANYONE who abuses another person. randome May 2012 #59

LOL, that argument is like saying..... Logical May 2012 #63

Sorry, he's too busy defending cops who shoot unarmed women with babies in their arms Zalatix May 2012 #100

No one argued any such thing treestar May 2012 #126

Not made up at all, it was said upthread. Zalatix May 2012 #138

So why don't you distrust firemen then? treestar May 2012 #125

Wow, you need to do way more research! n-t Logical May 2012 #139

We all have "power" to kill or harm others treestar May 2012 #124

Yeah right every cop you ever talked to admitted that treestar May 2012 #123

It is not that dangerous of a job! Read some stats befor you... Logical May 2012 #140

I am so sick of your broad brushing cops treestar May 2012 #115

I hate any group that legally abuse people! So should you! Logical May 2012 #141

Have you had any acquaintance with the 'Ramparts Scandal' in coalition_unwilling May 2012 #65

We don't need police? treestar May 2012 #116

OK, I have no choice but to put you on Ignore for insinuating that coalition_unwilling May 2012 #136

YOU may have to have them..... DeSwiss May 2012 #66

Even libertarians don't make that argument treestar May 2012 #117

Lol, that old argument is done! The police should be much better!!! Logical May 2012 #111

"...a thousand other cases..." randome May 2012 #23

But criticize religion and what what this one does jberryhill May 2012 #57

The only reason the police have more firepower is because more firepower is available to the public. baldguy May 2012 #26

Gun control does not mean the cops won't be armed. Zalatix May 2012 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author Upton May 2012 #39

Dictators love the it when govt does their bidding baldguy May 2012 #45

Tell that to Moammar Ghadafi. Or Nicolai Caucescu. Zalatix May 2012 #47

Tell that to Randy Weaver, David Koresh and Tim McVeigh. baldguy May 2012 #62

Those were a handful of people. Zalatix May 2012 #74

I don't know if you're deliberately missing the point, or if you're just too dim to get it. baldguy May 2012 #77

I'm getting it just fine. I got the point and my argument is flawless. Zalatix May 2012 #78

Your "argument" - such as it is - doesn't bear the slightest resembance to reality. baldguy May 2012 #83

Again, my argument had no errors, and you have presented no counter. Zalatix May 2012 #84

Fail, double fail, and triple fail. baldguy May 2012 #109

Temper, temper. You're getting absolutely nowhere here except making your case look very bad. Zalatix May 2012 #110

Simply repeating your assertions doesn't make them any more true. baldguy May 2012 #112

Communist China loves your arguments. Zalatix May 2012 #113

There were no "armed citizens" in any of those countries. baldguy May 2012 #142

Extremist rightwing solutions LOL hahahahah what a desperate little argument! Zalatix May 2012 #144

You're getting your talking points & tactics directly from Faux Snooze & FreeRepublic. baldguy May 2012 #145

You're getting your talking points directly from Beijing. Zalatix May 2012 #146

My owning of guns.. Upton May 2012 #40

You might want to re-asses your comfort with a gun DiverDave May 2012 #101

Sorry, but we've got China beat (per capita) by a long way. nt daaron May 2012 #28

Some of them consider themselves elite like those on swat forces. LiberalFighter May 2012 #34

A huge ugly storm is.. 99Forever May 2012 #35

These pictures....... SammyWinstonJack May 2012 #38

You can't fight fear lunatica May 2012 #44

They think they are the military. Skidmore May 2012 #51

A year or so an officer was killed in the line of duty in Indianapolis DefenseLawyer May 2012 #54

The war metaphor is overused everywhere treestar May 2012 #70

Yay! Another absurd FTP thread! gulliver May 2012 #56

No 'information' here. Just emotional venting. randome May 2012 #60

I know you won't reply to this and your comments are just drive-by's, but Zalatix May 2012 #79

I don't deny anything. randome May 2012 #80

The police system we have is designed to hire psychopaths. Zalatix May 2012 #82

"Do you deny the rampant nature of police brutality against Occupy protesters? " NCTraveler May 2012 #107

What's FTP? treestar May 2012 #69

"Fuck The Police". randome May 2012 #72

Defending cops is the last resort of sycophants and fans of dictatorships. Zalatix May 2012 #102

A torture case? Do you really think I'm going to defend something like that? randome May 2012 #103

Your views of cops are downright sycophantic. And unrealistic, to boot. Zalatix May 2012 #105

ntractable dogmas deny room for anything else... LanternWaste May 2012 #104

Just like religious leaders jberryhill May 2012 #58

They are part of the new religion of America: the cult of the Blue servants of Robber Baron Capitali lonestarnot May 2012 #61

End the lionizing of those in uniform, especially cops. Dawson Leery May 2012 #64

O these errors in facts! davekriss May 2012 #67

Yes. And many here do as well. Puregonzo1188 May 2012 #71

You are far along the path to fucked as soon as you have law enforcement instead of peace officers TheKentuckian May 2012 #75

Type A personalities are drawn to the work. CANDO May 2012 #76

Yay, Cops! Iggo May 2012 #81