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AOR

(692 posts)

84. Steven...it has nothing to do with labels...

Mon Aug 17, 2015, 05:53 PM

Aug 2015

The pressing question of working class people and the poor and struggling at this moment is history is -- to what actual result ? To what actual result - throughout the history of capitalist relations (political, social, and economic) - have the liberal "reformers and regulators" of the capitalist power structure benefited the working class and the people AS A WHOLE ?

Facts on the ground matter steven. Not subjective views from within lifestyle bubbles. 50% of Americans earn less that $ 27,000 a year, while close to 40% of Americans have zero retirement savings and 1 out of every 7 Americans over 65 lives in poverty. Add in child poverty and homelessness and that doesn't even begin to tell the story. Add in the devastation caused by Capitalism and all its tentacles around the globe and the picture of abject poverty is even bleaker. To what actual result.

How much longer should the poor and the struggling workers defer to the liberals and the Democratic Party for answers steven. To what actual result have solutions been provided ? Shall the leftists wait forever while working with the liberals and the Democratic Party for incremental change that amounts to nothing for an ever increasing amount of the working class with each passing year ?

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Democratic Socialist [View all] Quixote1818 Aug 2015 OP

Hell yeah ... Trajan Aug 2015 #1

I can't take credit for writing this Quixote1818 Aug 2015 #3

! tecelote Aug 2015 #18

Might this mean passing laws to channel behavior into socially productive areas? guillaumeb Aug 2015 #2

After Listening To Call-In's On CSPAN Today I Think You Are Going To Have To..... global1 Aug 2015 #4

Bernie wants to raise taxes on the rich and lower them on the rest of us. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #8

Obama tried to do that too, couldn't get it past the republican congress.... George II Aug 2015 #19

Sanders says outright that no president can do it alone. He is trying to create a movement of JDPriestly Aug 2015 #23

118 members of Congress have endorsed Clinton, zero have endorsed Sanders: George II Aug 2015 #24

I'd say he is not corrupt like so many of our members of Congress. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #25

Regardless, how is going to be able to work with Congress if many of them don't like his politics? George II Aug 2015 #26

Actually he is liked by a lot of people in Congress. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #30

It's not cheaper to just give up on millions of young adults? Babel_17 Aug 2015 #51

I assume that trade schools would be treated the same as colleges. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #54

You were clear enough, I just think it's beneficial if we emphasize it more Babel_17 Aug 2015 #55

I totally agree with you. I lived in several European countries for years, and in each, the JDPriestly Aug 2015 #57

I was thinking along the same lines Babel_17 Aug 2015 #59

So IF (a huge if) he gets elected, you really expect him to be an effective President.... George II Aug 2015 #65

I expect him to have the people behind him. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #70

are you being deliberately obtuse? passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #64

Is this "grass roots uprising" going to descend on Washington, sit in at the Capitol.... George II Aug 2015 #66

Just look at BLM. It's already making a difference in how this campaign season is starting off passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #68

I agree Baadger Aug 2015 #10

Unfortunately to them there's no such thing as fair taxes lunatica Aug 2015 #83

I believe Bernie asked why we can't be more like Scandinavia. pampango Aug 2015 #5

They don't. former9thward Aug 2015 #15

He said that? Someone should give Sanders a geography lesson - Scandinavia isn't a country.... George II Aug 2015 #69

Don't you see the contradiction here? rogerashton Aug 2015 #6

YA know, like Franklin Delano Roosevelt! Dont call me Shirley Aug 2015 #7

Thanks for posting this succinct definition! Cassidy Aug 2015 #9

Socialism is where the means of production is controlled democratically passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #11

A lot of people want to have their cake and eat it too; ronnie624 Aug 2015 #56

Very nice. nt valerief Aug 2015 #12

Capitalism can't be "made fair"... AOR Aug 2015 #13

Agreed. nt. JanMichael Aug 2015 #16

Sure it can... CanSocDem Aug 2015 #20

You are missing the point... AOR Aug 2015 #27

Perhaps... CanSocDem Aug 2015 #28

You've not addressed what I've written... AOR Aug 2015 #32

People are people, and so all systems need checks and balances and individual motivation... Armstead Aug 2015 #29

What "you believe" or "call yourself" is entirely irrelevant... AOR Aug 2015 #31

Yeah, yeah,yeah...good luck with that. Armstead Aug 2015 #34

You've said absolutely nothing in your reply... AOR Aug 2015 #35

If I will be able to afford a BMW 750i xDrive Sedan and a McMansion under socialism, FrodosPet Aug 2015 #58

Not until the human needs of every single citizen in society are met in full... AOR Aug 2015 #61

You and I are exactly on the same page. Quixote1818 Aug 2015 #37

Forget about purity. moondust Aug 2015 #42

"Purity" has nothing to do with it... AOR Aug 2015 #45

How does this case fit into your "understanding" of things? moondust Aug 2015 #47

How does it fit in ? AOR Aug 2015 #60

What about the employee owned co-ops in Germany? passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #67

Robert Reich is a liberal capitalist passiveporcupine... AOR Aug 2015 #71

I think you are wrong about Richard Wolff passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #72

Everything should be up for analysis passiveporcupine... AOR Aug 2015 #73

Sanders isn't the lesser of two evils. Hillary is. passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #74

I'd say trying to change capitalism into socialism... AOR Aug 2015 #77

Have a read on this passiveporcupine on the wage system... AOR Aug 2015 #75

You seem to be stuck in a groove passiveporcupine Aug 2015 #76

Leftist politics is about capitalism... AOR Aug 2015 #78

Left politics consist of a broad spectrum of beliefs both economically and socially. stevenleser Aug 2015 #79

This is an old comment from an acquaintance steven... AOR Aug 2015 #80

Of course it's very convenient to define one's own viewpoint as the only true one of a particular stevenleser Aug 2015 #82

Steven...it has nothing to do with labels... AOR Aug 2015 #84

+1 leftstreet Aug 2015 #81

CAPITALISM AND DEMOCRACY ARE COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE!!! ellennelle Aug 2015 #14

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #17

Forward to DWS lobodons Aug 2015 #21

we are all democratic socialists. DUrs, Freepers, GOPrs, the Pauls, BLMrs, wiggs Aug 2015 #22

No, we are Social Democrats. See the below thread. nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #44

Most links on the web say the opposite re: Democratic Socialism and Capitalism including... stevenleser Aug 2015 #33

I am not an expert on any of this but I do know that Bernie points to countries like Norway Quixote1818 Aug 2015 #36

Those countries & the policies they enact are examples of Social Democracy, not Democratic Socialism stevenleser Aug 2015 #38

Thanks for the clarification Steve. nt Quixote1818 Aug 2015 #39

Austerity comes to Norway � workers fight back... AOR Aug 2015 #40

Private corporations are neither prohibited nor desired in a democratic socialist setup. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #41

A system where workers own corporations, not investment shareholders, is a form of Socialism. stevenleser Aug 2015 #43

Hence why it is called democratic socialism. RichVRichV Aug 2015 #46

Ah, so we agree. I wasn't sure. stevenleser Aug 2015 #48

something tells me no one is selling that anytime soon in America ericson00 Aug 2015 #50

I agree it's a non starter in the U.S. But it is how he self identified. Nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author ericson00 Aug 2015 #49

The Nordic Model Babel_17 Aug 2015 #52

Hogwash. Since Marx, 'Democratic Socialists' have sought the KingCharlemagne Aug 2015 #53

We agree on the first paragraph. I actually think Sanders is a Democratic Socialist stevenleser Aug 2015 #63