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jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
7. Yes, there could be an irrational belief in counterstrike survival
Thu Aug 20, 2015, 09:19 PM
Aug 2015

An acquaintance of mine who spent a number of years maintaining aircraft in Saudi Arabia suggests it is a common belief that an air strike on Mecca, for example, would not be possible, since a divine agency would protect it from attack. Similar beliefs among Iran's leadership may be sincere, and they used similar "spiritual" protection arguments to inspire human wave attacks in the Iran/Iraq conflict. Specifically, they would distribute little plastic "keys to heaven" to the troops, which would gain them access to paradise in the event of death.

Even assuming rationality, I don't think the prospect of allied counterstrike is as credible a threat as it seems. If Iran had the ability to mount an effective first strike launch against Israel, obtaining effectively some measure of complete annihilation, then even if there had been a promise of an allied counterstrike, it would not be rational at that point to actually launch the promised counterstrike.

To put it another way, having threatened an allied counterstrike on Iran, what would be the point of actually doing it if they succeeded in a first strike annihilation of Israel? In the US/USSR context, a counterstrike by the US on the USSR is at least rational to the point of evening the post-exchange political and military balance. Presumably, the point of the USSR strike is to eliminate the US for the purpose of obtaining global domination. But if the US, which can't really be taken out in a first strike, retaliates, then the USSR is still inhibited from the goal of their first strike.

In the allied counterstrike situation, it really comes down to a "revenge" strike more than a "retaliation" strike. An effective counterstrike on Iran would have greater atmospheric consequences, Iran is not going to reach global domination anyway, and the consequences of launching the allied counterstrike are more of a downside for the alliance at that point, since Israel is already gone.


That doesn't mean the allied counterstrike wouldn't be launched
, but there is enough reason to doubt the rationality of it, such that it is not as credible a deterrent to a first strike than in the US/USSR context. That doubt is risk.

Plus, there are models in both the 1967 war and the 1972 war. Both of those were imminent existential threats to Israel, and there was no significant intervention by any force allied with Israel.

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I doubt the people of Iran would choose suicide by nuke seveneyes Aug 2015 #1
All it would take is an Ayatollah Huckabee, Santorum or McCain. OffWithTheirHeads Aug 2015 #2
Relative size and proximity jberryhill Aug 2015 #3
That's a valid analysis... Whiskeytide Aug 2015 #4
Yes, there could be an irrational belief in counterstrike survival jberryhill Aug 2015 #7
I won't go into as much detail Krytan11c Aug 2015 #11
And if Russia is Iran's ally for nuclear deterrent purposes? jberryhill Aug 2015 #17
they wouldn't -- it's all BS demagoguery on the part of neocons who need an enemy Fast Walker 52 Aug 2015 #5
Yup. Another excuse to make war profiteers richer by sending middle class and poor kids to die. EEO Aug 2015 #9
Israel has taken out a nuclear facility in the past Art_from_Ark Aug 2015 #6
I remember a few reports citing the Mossad, which concluded the underground facilities... EEO Aug 2015 #8
there isn't any lancer78 Aug 2015 #10
It amazes me how people cannot think from their opponent's perspective. EEO Aug 2015 #14
I agree with everything... Whiskeytide Aug 2015 #23
The argument is that you know "they" are crazy. And you know just what I mean by "they" Recursion Aug 2015 #12
We've been suffering from their arbitrary drawing of lines and creation of countries ever since. EEO Aug 2015 #13
30 October 1918 jberryhill Aug 2015 #19
MAD doesn't work between Iran and Israel jberryhill Aug 2015 #18
Part of Israel's rumored nuclear arsenal is subs. jeff47 Aug 2015 #26
Kinda hard to build those in secret jberryhill Aug 2015 #31
They didn't build them in secret. They bought them from Germany. jeff47 Aug 2015 #33
Not just Muslims, any religious fundamentalists are that crazy whatthehey Aug 2015 #22
Yeah, they think "Here's the button that brings Jesus back" if they get control jberryhill Aug 2015 #32
If you haven't seen it, I suggest watching the comedy "The Brink." Behind the Aegis Aug 2015 #35
Omg jberryhill Aug 2015 #41
Boom, there it is. Thank you. closeupready Aug 2015 #37
Don't hold your breath. You won't hear it. nt kelliekat44 Aug 2015 #15
I don't think that's necessarily the main concern davidn3600 Aug 2015 #16
It's not that they would launch nukes but rather they would use the threat of nukes to Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #20
I don't see a reason either davidpdx Aug 2015 #21
I don't think the country of Iran would nuke anyone, but GummyBearz Aug 2015 #24
Plausible Deniability. Mosby Aug 2015 #25
A more likely situation. Behind the Aegis Aug 2015 #30
"no one will be able to prove [the bomb's not Iran's]" - chemical signatures closeupready Aug 2015 #38
I think they can identify isotopes Mosby Aug 2015 #40
MAD works Gothmog Aug 2015 #27
Indeed. hifiguy Aug 2015 #28
Because politicians are not always rational... brooklynite Aug 2015 #29
Just arming themselves so we and Israel don't mess with them realFedUp Aug 2015 #34
I have yet to hear a good reason why Germany would risk its own destruction by attacking Russia... EX500rider Aug 2015 #36
Yes. Germans enthusiastically supported Hitler's "Total War!" speeches closeupready Aug 2015 #39
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