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Syzygy321

(583 posts)
Mon Aug 24, 2015, 08:58 AM Aug 2015

The upside of strict gender roles. Really. [View all]

I am a staunch feminist.

That's one reason I was delighted by the NPR report yesterday on Alex Potter: a young woman who dreamt of being a photographer and ran off to an exotic, dangerous country to do just that. Now her beloved adopted country is at war, and she is one of very few western photographers there.

IOW, Potter has been autonomous, adventurous, successful, (and happy).

Her adopted country is Yemen. It's one of the world's worst places to be a woman. Many females are niqabis (face-veilers); females live in the clutches of fundy Islam, poor fathers make money by selling their female children as slave-brides to grown men. Nujood, of "I am Nujood, Age Ten and Divorced" is a Yemeni. Little girls have been raped to death on their wedding nights. The government shrugs. The imams encourage the practice. That's Yemen for ya.

But Alex Potter - the American photog - says this about her adopted home: That her neighbors and Yemeni friends are amazingly devoted to family. That they are warm and generous and just great, great people. Hearing her describe them, you get the feeling that she didn't have that kind of warmth during her American youth. And that she loves it.

Which tbh matches my experiences in a "traditional" (read: fundy religious with strict gender roles) family. There's a huge emphasis on The Clan, including cousins and great-aunties; there are big meals and much love and great caring. It's like living inside a warm security blanket.

It's wonderful. Of course it's all built on the sacrifices of women. Women are born and bred to both knit that security blanket and be trapped and muffled inside it. They're the rocks that anchor families. They do the cooking and the child care and the eldercare. They create the happy homes. And, like rocks, some of them get kicked or smashed and are helpless to stop it, because men rule over them. But many - the vast majority I think - are truly satisfied inside the security blanket. They don't mind that they can never leave it.

Maybe I am imagining it, but among my modern upwardly friends (male and female) and myself, there's more loneliness and angstiness. We've left our families, chased careers, ditched the security blanket or never had it. And not many of us, that I've seen, live in the same town with forty loving, annoying relatives who cluster at births and graduations and sickbeds and granny's 88th birthday.

(i see families like that among the poor farm and small-town people here. Not among the affluent and educated.)

So is that the trade-off? Big warm families (built on locking females into domestic roles and demanding they not pursue independent dreams), versus freedom for all, but loss of big warm families?

Am I broad-brushing? What does everyone think?

(Note: I originally titled this post, "The upside if misogyny.". Which was click-baity of me.

Strict gender roles and misogyny are like incestuous siblings to each other. Can you ever have one without the other? I say it's impossible.)
.

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I think it has more to do with our culture's mobility and the size of our families. Brickbat Aug 2015 #1
I don't think a close family is predicated on misogyny LanternWaste Aug 2015 #2
I tend to agree with you. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2015 #52
I think most of that "love" is a lie. alarimer Aug 2015 #3
+1 - It's like asking a prisoner if they're being treated well Oneironaut Aug 2015 #56
how many women/girls are raped, beaten and murdered in the name of male authority that have no seabeyond Aug 2015 #4
staunch feminist? man or woman? seabeyond Aug 2015 #5
Woman. And survivor of abuse. I am not defending Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #7
"For the other 90 percent of women, it's fulfilling." seriously? you are only suggesting 10% of seabeyond Aug 2015 #10
No - the 10/90 percent split is my guess at Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #14
i do not believe it even a little. stats over decades tell us a different story. also, seabeyond Aug 2015 #17
I am glad for your happiness. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #23
your post, and how you state it is so repulsive, asked as if you are reasonable, that i have seabeyond Aug 2015 #28
I believe this OP is a sick joke. Let's watch the liberals defend misogyny! bettyellen Aug 2015 #37
yup. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #38
Yep Aerows Aug 2015 #48
Have to agree ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #83
"... content in that role. Like American women before the 60's." Yeah, right. suffragette Aug 2015 #25
I would say that most women brought up in fundie religions/societies are trapped. Lisa D Aug 2015 #27
You then have absolute knowledge of a collective contentedness? LanternWaste Aug 2015 #46
they would if it went wrong treestar Aug 2015 #75
So you believe 90 percent of women are happy to conform- and not living in fear? bettyellen Aug 2015 #13
Well: think about Ward and June Cleaver. Fiction I know, Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #19
Fear is the reason for conformity. Fear of torture doesn't register with you eh? bettyellen Aug 2015 #39
Muslim women - the ones I know - would be pretty Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #41
We are not taking about Muslim women in the USA- which makes your reply MORE BULLSHIT. bettyellen Aug 2015 #44
+1000 smirkymonkey Aug 2015 #79
Amen to that. n/t Aerows Aug 2015 #81
If I lived in Orange County Aerows Aug 2015 #47
I doubt it is really fulfilling treestar Aug 2015 #73
angstiness? Good word! I like it. Adding it to my vocabulary. Thanks! Hiraeth Aug 2015 #6
If having control over my body and my life means I miss out on some mythical "happiness", ladyVet Aug 2015 #8
Love your post! Love your voice. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #9
My father didn't raise his girls any differently than he did his boys. seabeyond Aug 2015 #12
So what if women are tortured and raped! Big families are so much fun for women bettyellen Aug 2015 #11
I've never had that security blanket. LWolf Aug 2015 #15
Jury results JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #16
I agree with Juror # 7. DURHAM D Aug 2015 #21
Alerter's message added to top of post 16. Thanks. nt JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2015 #29
Thanks. nt DURHAM D Aug 2015 #31
after reading the reply about women on a leash, i agree with the alerter, absolutely. seabeyond Aug 2015 #33
Interesting question Recursion Aug 2015 #18
Yikes. I think that view is a trap for women. DirkGently Aug 2015 #20
Beautiful thought... sounds like the best solution so far. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #35
Yeah, sort of like how the slaves used to be so happy frazzled Aug 2015 #22
I agree! DawgHouse Aug 2015 #74
Thoughtful post that asks some uncomfortable questions. beerandjesus Aug 2015 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Aug 2015 #26
Funny thing about DU: Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #30
when you start off by arguing that big warm families don't exist outside of oppression geek tragedy Aug 2015 #32
I didn't mean to argue that. I gave a fair Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #36
Baloney- to claim to be a staunch feminist and claim women on leashes are happy bettyellen Aug 2015 #42
It might be easier to give you the benefit of the doubt kcr Aug 2015 #70
in my mind with this discussion, religion nor a particular religion ever took hold. seabeyond Aug 2015 #34
Um. No WestCoastLib Aug 2015 #40
There's nothing warm about families that repress members into rigid gender roles. Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #43
Yes, you're broad-brushing. I think you have a paternalistic skewed view of the world. PeaceNikki Aug 2015 #45
There isn't mercuryblues Aug 2015 #49
I disagree with you. Skidmore Aug 2015 #50
You should write headlines for the Daily Mail LittleBlue Aug 2015 #51
This bit of advocacy to promote Sharia law as a happy choice ain't going how you'd hope, eh? bettyellen Aug 2015 #53
DDS Aerows Aug 2015 #82
Until they want to have any sort of power or freedom. Oneironaut Aug 2015 #54
Strict gender roles = misogyny? lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #55
Obvious strawman and not even related. Oneironaut Aug 2015 #58
I'd say it's closer to disproof of the premise than a strawman. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #59
If you don't want to be drafted Aerows Aug 2015 #60
Even Limbaugh had to register. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #68
The original wording of the OP was correct- she was speaking of women living under Sharia law bettyellen Aug 2015 #66
I guess the takeaway is that "gender roles" aren't one thing. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #67
I think the takeaway is that living a subordinate life because of strongcultural bettyellen Aug 2015 #77
My entire being rejects this. Solly Mack Aug 2015 #57
By that measure, the Duggars must be your ideal. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #61
Having religiously consevative fuckers raping 10 year olds and executing gay people is your idea of Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #62
You could wipe out civilization today Puzzledtraveller Aug 2015 #63
except a handful of decades women gaining the freedom and independence has changed the scene, hence seabeyond Aug 2015 #64
the only way people can have big connected families or supportive communities is via repression? Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #65
in my experience, strict gender roles are neither necessary nor sufficient for warm happy families fishwax Aug 2015 #69
False Choice. Big Warm Family does not equal strict gender roles. yellowcanine Aug 2015 #71
We don't trade off big warm families treestar Aug 2015 #72
From the late 60s on, I found women who were resistant to any of the ideals of feminism. Warpy Aug 2015 #76
Yes - you and I are very much in agreement Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #78
Bravenak - not here Aerows Aug 2015 #80
I'm part of a close-knit group of parents caring for families. yardwork Aug 2015 #84
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