General Discussion

oberliner

(58,724 posts) Wed Aug 26, 2015, 03:36 PM Aug 2015

Can the racial dimension of the shooting be discussed in a reasonable manner? [View all]

In the 23-page document faxed to ABC News, the writer says “MY NAME IS BRYCE WILLIAMS” and his legal name is Vester Lee Flanagan II.” He writes what triggered today’s carnage was his reaction to the racism of the Charleston church shooting:

“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”

“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339

He also allegedly tweeted the following:

“Alison made racial comments.”

“EEOC report filed. They hired her after that?”

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/wdbj-tv-news-shooter-faxed-23-page-manifesto-170257184.html

I mean it seems clear that the killer had serious mental issues, but it does seem that race played a role in his twisted logic, just like it did for Dylann Roof. Is it reasonable to examine and/or reflect on that?

136 replies

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Can the racial dimension of the shooting be discussed in a reasonable manner? [View all] oberliner Aug 2015 OP

However an employee/supervisor? at the station said he'd been dismissed for 'emotional' reasons elleng Aug 2015 #1

Well, threads in Guns Discussion emphasized "guy-guy-guy" without Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #2

It's actually very simple - hate begets hate Glitterati Aug 2015 #3

Unstable people react badly to external events Ex Lurker Aug 2015 #4

I see it more of a mental illness issue than a racial issue. philosslayer Aug 2015 #5

Yes artislife Aug 2015 #89

Bryce wasn't wearing flags from racist countries or posting on websites that promoted Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #6

Well said. nt Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #10

Racism can manifest itself in different ways oberliner Aug 2015 #16

Big difference between someone BEING 'racist' and someone's mental health issues blm Aug 2015 #19

That is true oberliner Aug 2015 #40

I see it - but, then, I have years of experience with the signs. blm Aug 2015 #44

I defer to your expertise oberliner Aug 2015 #51

I was explaining how these two situations are different oberliner Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #21

Huh? oberliner Aug 2015 #39

I don't see how the manner in which he conveyed his animosity bears any relevance. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #47

The PATIENCE shown, time and time and time again, by the AfAm community randys1 Aug 2015 #74

And THAT truth is what makes some white people frightened. They know what THEY would do blm Aug 2015 #84

Exactly, they realize just how fucked up it actually is so denial and lying is randys1 Aug 2015 #85

Member since 2002 and lurked for a year before that. ; ) blm Aug 2015 #110

I agree. I think he was looking for excuses to explode. yardwork Aug 2015 #108

Yes, I saw some excerpts from the manifesto. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #117

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #7

Well.... Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #8

'Bryce' stated he bought a gun in response to a racially motivated shootings, which was obviously a GummyBearz Aug 2015 #18

Nice strawman Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #23

Thanks GummyBearz Aug 2015 #27

We? Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #29

As in you and I GummyBearz Aug 2015 #32

You're on your own, buddy. Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #33

So far I have GummyBearz Aug 2015 #37

Larell Williams, a young black intern at the time (per interview on CNN) TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #9

That is interesting oberliner Aug 2015 #15

Don't know, but he seemed incredibly shocked at the deaths TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #17

Or�he 'heard' them in his head the way my sister does after blm Aug 2015 #46

Possibly. And very sad if medication could have helped TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #68

This gentleman had anger mgmt issues and Blus4u Aug 2015 #115

Of course there is racial dimension FLPanhandle Aug 2015 #11

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #12

They were both crazy racist killers FLPanhandle Aug 2015 #34

If you reverse roles, white people would have BOULDERS on their shoulders, not chips randys1 Aug 2015 #76

So you believe that no "black", "negroe", "colored" or "africain-american" can be racist? n/t oneshooter Aug 2015 #132

Negro? Colored? randys1 Aug 2015 #134

"Bottom line both were mentally unstable and racists." Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #48

I wouldn't be surprised FLPanhandle Aug 2015 #53

wrong, Black people cant be racists in America, they can be racists where they control randys1 Aug 2015 #77

Absolute unmitigated bullcrap Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #80

My comment was murder apologizing? AT least you are consistent, from the day I arrived here randys1 Aug 2015 #81

Bryce chose the motive for his crimes. You're trying to explain that away and Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #94

Oh yes. We see him. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #116

Tanks, knew I werent the only won randys1 Aug 2015 #129

Absolutely. Igel Aug 2015 #119

Bullshit. MicaelS Aug 2015 #120

Murdering Black people everyday for 200 years, redlining them, Jim Crowing them, and most of this randys1 Aug 2015 #130

If there's a school where white students are 5% of the student body XemaSab Aug 2015 #121

Chances are good that in both cases it's related to institutional racism Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #135

VERY OBVIOUS that it is a mental health issue. No doubt the current talk of 'race war' blm Aug 2015 #13

Good points oberliner Aug 2015 #14

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #20

There was no BLM when this man's mental health issues began. blm Aug 2015 #26

You are confusing unrest with civil rights. LanternWaste Aug 2015 #57

The poster said it extends to all sides but there is far more among the rightwing side. pnwmom Aug 2015 #59

What the fuck? Hissyspit Aug 2015 #60

You are mentioned in another thread JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #62

They got him. blm Aug 2015 #86

Very well said malaise Aug 2015 #22

They can be but they probably won't. hifiguy Aug 2015 #24

london papers say Jahovah told him to do it big_dog Aug 2015 #31

Oy. hifiguy Aug 2015 #35

That's a well struck phrase ShrimpPoboy Aug 2015 #125

Of course it can. But there will still be plenty of ignorant people with ignorant opinions kcr Aug 2015 #25

All the opinions right now are based on ignorance oberliner Aug 2015 #41

You don't have to know a single thing about it kcr Aug 2015 #45

Agreed oberliner Aug 2015 #50

Played a role kcr Aug 2015 #54

Christopher Dorner arguably had a more compelling case.. Blue_Tires Aug 2015 #28

I agree. N/t JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #58

Are you kidding? Here? n/t Smarmie Doofus Aug 2015 #30

Not here and not with the facts as they stand. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2015 #36

He's an unreliable narrator of his life experiences. Syzygy321 Aug 2015 #38

Not with any amount of objectivity. B2G Aug 2015 #42

Delete before the jury is empaneled. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #49

What the fuck does that mean? Gay Black people have a bunch of privilege in America? randys1 Aug 2015 #79

Given that the term "racist" has whatever definition any "side" wishes it to have sibelian Aug 2015 #43

Makes sense. pecwae Aug 2015 #61

People who do shit like this blame everyone but themselves ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2015 #52

anyone vindictive & calous enough to do this must have been impossible to work with Charlie Brown Aug 2015 #55

Did the killer exhibit any positions against white people? I haven't read that yet... tia. It sounds uponit7771 Aug 2015 #56

The issue with the reporter was due to perceived acts of racism against him oberliner Aug 2015 #63

OK, so it was her or someone he felt wronged him and not white people in general... I wouldn't uponit7771 Aug 2015 #64

They never worked together TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #75

Yes they did oberliner Aug 2015 #131

I'm still trying to figure out JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #65

Are you seriously "still trying to figure out who profited"... TeeYiYi Aug 2015 #82

Based upon some of the comments in this thread . . . JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #97

Zeroing in on race... TeeYiYi Aug 2015 #103

Thank you JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #104

I don't think there really is a racial dimension - I think it's pure personality disorder, Yo_Mama Aug 2015 #66

That's what I'm seeing. blm Aug 2015 #67

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #69

Bothering to understand what mentally ill people are capable of and what triggers their blm Aug 2015 #73

Based on what little I know this is what I see. TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #72

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks for phrasing it more precisely. Yo_Mama Aug 2015 #99

Well, he was the one who made it about race, unfortunately TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #101

Well only black folks ever make things about race JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #105

Oh, for goodness sakes. TexasMommaWithAHat Aug 2015 #109

"Looking for a scapegoat..." Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #133

Yep. This guy had problems. hifiguy Aug 2015 #83

And THAT is what should be the REAL ISSUE here. blm Aug 2015 #87

Could not possibly agree more. hifiguy Aug 2015 #92

forget the color DustyJoe Aug 2015 #70

He can blame his lot in life on anything he wants Ruby the Liberal Aug 2015 #71

You can't say that around here according to the people who do just that. hifiguy Aug 2015 #90

Well, I did Ruby the Liberal Aug 2015 #126

Definitely. romanic Aug 2015 #78

I'm African American and there's no way in hell underthematrix Aug 2015 #88

Truth, especially about being better. AA's mettle has been tested and found to be sound: freshwest Aug 2015 #118

Amen! JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #123

Pick a hate from column A, one from column B... HassleCat Aug 2015 #91

It seems that the common thread, which is as common as muck hifiguy Aug 2015 #93

About the meds HassleCat Aug 2015 #95

For the paranoids, it's the only mindset they know hifiguy Aug 2015 #96

I know my schizophrenic sister would act invincible when she was off her blm Aug 2015 #102

Local guy the same thing HassleCat Aug 2015 #111

The same paranoia that gets fed by FOX - 'war on Christians' so RW fundies arm themselves blm Aug 2015 #98

I don't know if this guy's paranoia had those roots, hifiguy Aug 2015 #100

Not this shooter. My reference was to the buttons being pushed 24/7 and blm Aug 2015 #106

Gotcha. Agreed completely hifiguy Aug 2015 #107

What he hated the most.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2015 #113

After 81 replies I think the answer to your question is a resounding "no" tularetom Aug 2015 #112

Not if it tries to excuse his fucked up actions seveneyes Aug 2015 #114

This guy had mental health issues, that much is pretty obvious steve2470 Aug 2015 #122

Well said. blm Aug 2015 #128

A lot of excuses being made in this thread, this guy sounds just as crazy, and just as racist.... Joe the Revelator Aug 2015 #124

Horsepoo - he wasn't aiming at 'whites' to aim at whites. "just as racist"�.yeah�I'm sure blm Aug 2015 #127

Can we discuss mental illness while we're at it? DirkGently Aug 2015 #136