General Discussion

CTyankee

(67,906 posts)

262. well, we sure had a great deal to do with helping win WWII. We went from an

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 07:13 AM

Aug 2015

isolationist country with a not so great military to fight wars in two different areas of the world. We developed the Bomb by assembling the best minds, many of those immigrants, and throwing resources at the problem. We did hard things.

You are saying we cannot change the Constitution EVER. Yes we can and we have. Lots of things that were "politically incorrect" at one time (shall we talk about the slaveholders who developed our Bill of Rights?) but got changed.

I refuse to give up. There are constitutional democracies that have effective gun control. We are the outliers when it comes to modern constitutional democracies and guns. That is a simple fact.

I refuse to let the NRA continue to rule with regard to this issue. I'm surprised that anyone here would use that organization's message. Res ipsa loquitur.

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I don't care what anyone thinks about their right to own guns [View all] marym625 Aug 2015 OP

I think we are fast approaching the day when people start publicly advocating for a repeal of the 2A LonePirate Aug 2015 #1

It is up to us marym625 Aug 2015 #3

exactly! huhu Aug 2015 #136

There will be a tipping point. onehandle Aug 2015 #6

A politician that advocates for repeal of the Second Amendment TeddyR Aug 2015 #9

Areas or cities within states maybe...... AnPak Aug 2015 #18

Twenty years ago, a national politician would never have supported marriage equality. LonePirate Aug 2015 #26

Outstanding response! CrispyQ Aug 2015 #35

Marriage equality was lancer78 Aug 2015 #143

The historic trend is to grant rights not restrict them hack89 Aug 2015 #153

Well TeddyR Aug 2015 #160

Even if that were the case, what would repeal accomplish? Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #15

Repeal opens the door to future actions. LonePirate Aug 2015 #22

You do realize that it takes only 13 states to nullify any change to the BoR? GGJohn Aug 2015 #169

There have been more firearms sold in the last six years Chuuku Davis Aug 2015 #180

A smaller percentage of the population is buying more guns than ever. LonePirate Aug 2015 #223

And you can prove that with stats I assume? GGJohn Aug 2015 #225

It wouldn't even do that. The bill of rights confers no rights. Repealing it removes none. X_Digger Aug 2015 #190

I concur. Given the linguistic construction of the amendment... Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #193

sure. that's why it's a national problem. I live in CT and could easily get to another CTyankee Aug 2015 #265

I would piss off a bunch of people I know...... Hotler Aug 2015 #314

That's what anti-gun folks have been saying since the Newtown massacre. aikoaiko Aug 2015 #101

That's because no prominent figure on the left is willing to start the discussion. LonePirate Aug 2015 #106

Well the threadstarter doesn't care what anyone thinks. Is that a discussion, closeupready Aug 2015 #119

Is the OP a high profile politician already in office or seeking election? LonePirate Aug 2015 #121

I don't think that's true after Newtown. aikoaiko Aug 2015 #141

how shameful! CTyankee Aug 2015 #144

No prominent figure on the Left is willing to commit political suicide. MicaelS Aug 2015 #150

Try to change the Democratic Party platform first if you can hack89 Aug 2015 #178

LOL yeah right Don Lemon Aug 2015 #236

You are dreaming. RiffRandell Aug 2015 #245

I don't think so RoccoR5955 Aug 2015 #284

Kick. Agschmid Aug 2015 #2

Thank you marym625 Aug 2015 #4

20 dead schoolchildren in Sandy Hook didn't do it gratuitous Aug 2015 #5

Nah this is America. Agschmid Aug 2015 #7

There are lots of guns but few gun owners. Only 32% of households have guns. flamin lib Aug 2015 #10

32% of households Runningdawg Aug 2015 #17

Paranoia strikes deep . . . flamin lib Aug 2015 #19

Yup. Agschmid Aug 2015 #23

It's NOT paranoia, it's *precaution*... ANYONE can call and say they are Joe Blow conducting a poll Ghost in the Machine Aug 2015 #131

We've discussed this precise point in the past. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #135

Asking a stranger on the telephone if they have a gun in their house is kind of like the band leader Aug 2015 #140

Come on now, you're a kook if you think it's 64%. It's probably more like 40% though. MillennialDem Aug 2015 #147

As a gun dealer yourself sarisataka Aug 2015 #28

Most people I know own guns. former9thward Aug 2015 #49

Anecdotes don't prove anything. I only know one person with a gun. MillennialDem Aug 2015 #149

And figures pulled out of thin air don't prove anything either. former9thward Aug 2015 #165

Polls/surveys. There is probably some underreporting of data, but likely not as much as people MillennialDem Aug 2015 #170

Anyone who would say they own a gun former9thward Aug 2015 #172

They could think it's a robber who is trying to target houses without guns. It could be people who MillennialDem Aug 2015 #176

And yours is too. former9thward Aug 2015 #248

Yeah but I generally don't put much stock in speculation (which is why I trust the polls well enough MillennialDem Aug 2015 #253

You have given no evidence. former9thward Aug 2015 #292

No, you only know of one person willing to admit they own a gun. eom. GGJohn Aug 2015 #171

Oh for fuck's sake, I think my in laws would tell me if they own guns, I know my 93 year old MillennialDem Aug 2015 #173

So those are the only people you know? eom. GGJohn Aug 2015 #175

Pretty much. I'm pretty boring. Oh also I'm pretty sure my wife/partner doesn't have one MillennialDem Aug 2015 #177

Ok, so you know about 10 people, GGJohn Aug 2015 #182

I trust polls/surveys with relative accuracy. Another good indicator is younger people are MillennialDem Aug 2015 #183

That doesn't answer my question. GGJohn Aug 2015 #186

Yes MillennialDem Aug 2015 #203

That fucking piece of shit Alex Jones said that all mass shootings are staged. Initech Aug 2015 #29

sad, horrible fact marym625 Aug 2015 #34

the media will just go "I'm sorry my face got in the way of your fist again" MisterP Aug 2015 #43

Thank you, well said. greatlaurel Aug 2015 #70

If it weren't for the NRA's control over our Congress we would have achieved gun CTyankee Aug 2015 #263

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #317

Well it's a free country. You're free to leave. Free to lobby for change, too. closeupready Aug 2015 #8

At this point there are too many guys with too many issues mythology Aug 2015 #12

I don't think discussions over race help matters. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #14

"Wait for evidence on this guy and his issues" Spider Jerusalem Aug 2015 #16

Well said! zappaman Aug 2015 #21

Yup. Agschmid Aug 2015 #25

yep you nailed it nt steve2470 Aug 2015 #32

word. KG Aug 2015 #40

Prohibitionism. It's so-o-o-o EZ. Works every time. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #58

The gun buy back program worked pretty well TexasBushwhacker Aug 2015 #273

I think authorities there concede less than a third have been "bought back" Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #285

+100 marym625 Aug 2015 #61

"The real problem is mental illness!" SecularMotion Aug 2015 #117

Ain't that the truth. truebluegreen Aug 2015 #241

+ a million nt laundry_queen Aug 2015 #233

You forgot SSRIs and other anit-depressants and the ones people snappyturtle Aug 2015 #303

Why? marym625 Aug 2015 #36

Because you are not the boss of anyone except yourself. closeupready Aug 2015 #47

Great response marym625 Aug 2015 #55

Not unless it was a water pistol. closeupready Aug 2015 #57

bullshit marym625 Aug 2015 #94

Whatever. closeupready Aug 2015 #95

yes closeupready olddots Aug 2015 #249

By the time you guys manage to ban guns, you won't be able to walk down the street the band leader Aug 2015 #11

It's called a bad ideology learned well. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #13

yeah. That makes all kinds of sense marym625 Aug 2015 #37

The gun industry ought to be giving you guys sales commissions the band leader Aug 2015 #51

Yeah, that's all because of people who are sick to death of this bullshit. marym625 Aug 2015 #59

You just keep on fighting the good fight then. the band leader Aug 2015 #83

proves my point, not yours marym625 Aug 2015 #91

Whatever helps you sleep at night. the band leader Aug 2015 #97

It's racism that brought gun numbers up Politicalboi Aug 2015 #82

you keep on hoping for that day then. keep up the good fight. the band leader Aug 2015 #84

We never should have elected a black guy jberryhill Aug 2015 #128

You have no idea what you're talking about and that is why your fail is so epic. the band leader Aug 2015 #138

I would like to feel free to not worry how many people are glinda Aug 2015 #20

EXACTLY! marym625 Aug 2015 #38

So true laundry_queen Aug 2015 #237

I like my rights...and don't care what anyone thinks ileus Aug 2015 #24

except my way you don't have to miss the reporters marym625 Aug 2015 #42

Gun fanciers really don't care about conseqences if it threatens their access to Hoyt Aug 2015 #134

Yeah Hoyt, You pegged it. GGJohn Aug 2015 #158

You filled your fourth gun safe with AKs and ammo yet, GG? Did you notice even Walmart is going to Hoyt Aug 2015 #194

Maybe, maybe not, but it keeps you guessing. GGJohn Aug 2015 #195

Really not into gun nomenclature anymore. I grew up. Hoyt Aug 2015 #207

Good for you, GGJohn Aug 2015 #209

Thank you for that, Hoyt. marym625 Aug 2015 #280

Don't Repeal, amend. maxsolomon Aug 2015 #27

ok marym625 Aug 2015 #39

Hadn't seen that before Deny and Shred Aug 2015 #116

Yeah...no. beevul Aug 2015 #201

I worded it poorly Deny and Shred Aug 2015 #267

Ok. beevul Aug 2015 #287

Its the 'modern language' part Deny and Shred Aug 2015 #290

Ok... beevul Aug 2015 #291

Cool. Most thought provoking DU discussion in a while. Deny and Shred Aug 2015 #294

In order... beevul Aug 2015 #295

This message was self-deleted by its author beevul Aug 2015 #288

Here is the lawful definition of militia: Keefer Aug 2015 #137

Thanks, seen that many times before. maxsolomon Aug 2015 #146

I'm glad you know "well-regulated" Keefer Aug 2015 #167

It doesn't mean "uncontrolled" either. maxsolomon Aug 2015 #188

At the time it was written, Keefer Aug 2015 #205

I would argue maxsolomon Aug 2015 #297

Nah. Keefer Aug 2015 #298

I'm repeating what i've been told multiple times on DU maxsolomon Aug 2015 #300

So you are proving that the definition of "militia" is define in STATUTE ThoughtCriminal Aug 2015 #243

Heller vs. DC is not the end of this story. GGJohn Aug 2015 #174

One more liberal judge out of the 9 and it would have been decided differently. maxsolomon Aug 2015 #187

Hey, if that's what helps you sleep at night, GGJohn Aug 2015 #192

you know what? retrowire Aug 2015 #30

Thank you! marym625 Aug 2015 #41

I like the 2nd Amendment just fine but ... The Traveler Aug 2015 #31

that is more likely to happen marym625 Aug 2015 #44

You're so welcome The Traveler Aug 2015 #88

Awesome response marym625 Aug 2015 #92

I was going to say pretty much the same thing. Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #79

Exactly! The Traveler Aug 2015 #89

Here's the difference, GGJohn Aug 2015 #179

I see the difference Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #200

Driving a car IS a right. beevul Aug 2015 #202

I understand that Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #212

The difference.... beevul Aug 2015 #222

Licensing and training requirement are -generally- already constitutional branford Aug 2015 #213

Fair points Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #219

I think the first step is to diligently and effectively enforce branford Aug 2015 #224

I agree with you on enforcement Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #228

Don't believe all the talking points about the NRA. branford Aug 2015 #234

I'm not saying they are all-powerful Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #238

I'm open to training and a test, it depend on the details, GGJohn Aug 2015 #215

On the screening issue Senator Tankerbell Aug 2015 #221

False equivalence. beevul Aug 2015 #93

It's not an equivalence at all ... it is analogy The Traveler Aug 2015 #98

Sigh...fundamental concepts. beevul Aug 2015 #100

The demands of employment ... patience ... I'll get back to ya (n/t) The Traveler Aug 2015 #115

In short... beevul Aug 2015 #110

Your plan is???? Nt Logical Aug 2015 #33

It is not incumbent on an OP to present a plan for you to nitpick. maxsolomon Aug 2015 #46

Why would i have a plan for something I didn't say needed changed? nt Logical Aug 2015 #50

good point maxsolomon Aug 2015 #163

I'm reading different ideas here marym625 Aug 2015 #48

I have no problem with registering guns either. Just not sure it solves anything..... Logical Aug 2015 #53

not just registering marym625 Aug 2015 #74

How does insurance stop crime? hack89 Aug 2015 #104

It is not intended to stop crime. beevul Aug 2015 #107

Is this a license to carry, or simply to own? N/t beevul Aug 2015 #108

own. marym625 Aug 2015 #109

Thats what I thought. N/t beevul Aug 2015 #111

No. eom. GGJohn Aug 2015 #185

I worry more about street crime and not safeinOhio Aug 2015 #80

As well you should. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #87

Good point. Nt Logical Aug 2015 #242

You and others really don't understand how insurance works or the effects of such a policy. branford Aug 2015 #133

Excellent post, thanks. MicaelS Aug 2015 #161

How do you figure? marym625 Aug 2015 #254

The NRA is a broker/vendor of insurance concerning firearms, branford Aug 2015 #258

Handguns and Long Guns need to be differentiated in this discussion. vkkv Aug 2015 #45

I can understand that marym625 Aug 2015 #54

The NRA is a terrorist organization. vkkv Aug 2015 #72

Yep. exactly marym625 Aug 2015 #73

The NRA is a terrorist organization? GGJohn Aug 2015 #211

And there is a good reason for that. -none Aug 2015 #81

And you don't distinguish between people that misuse guns and people that don't. beevul Aug 2015 #210

There are people out there that honestly believe ISIS in coming from Mexico. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #52

just proves we need Bernie Sanders marym625 Aug 2015 #63

And what is Bernie's plan Andy823 Aug 2015 #239

I thought Sandy Hook was the moment for a change. Sadly, no. nt thereismore Aug 2015 #56

very sadly marym625 Aug 2015 #64

Never owned a gun in my life. Never will. hifiguy Aug 2015 #60

same here marym625 Aug 2015 #65

my sentiments also, marym625....... :-( secondwind Aug 2015 #62

Thank you marym625 Aug 2015 #66

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #67

Yep those Sandy hook victims were selfish and the theatergoers and so on... Katashi_itto Aug 2015 #68

Wut? hifiguy Aug 2015 #69

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #78

Ask me if I give a shit. marym625 Aug 2015 #71

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #77

Yep marym625 Aug 2015 #90

Exactly, they prefer their guns to every other right, especially life. greatlaurel Aug 2015 #99

well said marym625 Aug 2015 #102

Her body, her choice. And your body, ALSO her choice, while she's at it, I guess. closeupready Aug 2015 #96

agreed. but the 2a is misinterpreted by the nra and gun lovers samsingh Aug 2015 #75

"murdered by guns" - you mean as opposed to murder by knives, bludgeoning, or drunks in cars? jonno99 Aug 2015 #85

Less guns always means less murders overall. laundry_queen Aug 2015 #240

not going after guns - after the gun culture samsingh Aug 2015 #283

I think your concern is still misplaced. The problem jonno99 Aug 2015 #286

American culture is not more violent maxsolomon Aug 2015 #299

Because the its the culture that stands in the way of going after guns.N/T beevul Aug 2015 #293

maybe not going after, but certainly reducing their efficacy. samsingh Aug 2015 #296

completely agree marym625 Aug 2015 #86

There is no question that these deaths were horrible, but a little perspective is helpful. jonno99 Aug 2015 #76

There are many laws against drunk drivers marym625 Aug 2015 #112

There are many laws against shooting people.... Adrahil Aug 2015 #127

Could be wrong, but haven't drunk driving deaths gone down a lot since the 70s? MillennialDem Aug 2015 #154

As have homicides. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #197

As have firearms deaths, GGJohn Aug 2015 #208

Why do you throw in the suicide statistic? MillennialDem Aug 2015 #226

Because they're part of the FBI's UCR on firearm deaths. GGJohn Aug 2015 #227

No marym625 Aug 2015 #252

Nope back at you. Adrahil Aug 2015 #261

Unbelievable marym625 Aug 2015 #272

and yet the homicide rate keeps decreasing. n/t Statistical Aug 2015 #332

and yet "accidental" shootings, doesn't marym625 Aug 2015 #333

Well that has also declined by roughly half over the last 20 years. Statistical Aug 2015 #336

Actually, yes, accidental shootings are down, per CDC's Wisqars. X_Digger Aug 2015 #337

k&r CharlotteVale Aug 2015 #103

Thank you! marym625 Aug 2015 #113

That's nice. nt hack89 Aug 2015 #105

yes, it is marym625 Aug 2015 #114

If you reject other people's thoughts, don't you basically reject democracy? HereSince1628 Aug 2015 #118

She doesn't care, apparently. All that matters is what SHE thinks. closeupready Aug 2015 #120

I support her frustration, but I think she hasn't thought this thru the implications of her comments HereSince1628 Aug 2015 #123

I agree, but when I tried to engage her upthread, closeupready Aug 2015 #126

I think her irrational/emotional response is common. But it's hyperbolic. HereSince1628 Aug 2015 #130

what? marym625 Aug 2015 #122

No, I think I am not so very wrong. I respect you, but I think you need to breathe. HereSince1628 Aug 2015 #125

I'm sorry but the idea that disagreeing with the current marym625 Aug 2015 #216

Good god where do you come up with this nonsense? beevul Aug 2015 #129

Crystal clear,huh? marym625 Aug 2015 #145

My position was arrived at through much research. N/T beevul Aug 2015 #191

I live in Moneta. phylny Aug 2015 #124

nope marym625 Aug 2015 #148

Starting a thread on an internet message board with "I don't care what anyone thinks..." Snobblevitch Aug 2015 #132

nope. it shows both knowledge of the situation marym625 Aug 2015 #151

So how do we ban guns? JT1979 Aug 2015 #155

no where did I say to ban guns. marym625 Aug 2015 #259

You keep telling yourself that Snobblevitch Aug 2015 #229

I stated I don't care what anyone thinks about their right to own guns. marym625 Aug 2015 #260

You have stated that you don't care what anyone thinks about their right to own guns. Snobblevitch Aug 2015 #266

What? marym625 Aug 2015 #274

You're moving the goalposts. Snobblevitch Aug 2015 #281

That graphic is very specific. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #289

I have a right to life madokie Aug 2015 #139

Thank you! marym625 Aug 2015 #152

I spent 24 months in country, and I do own guns GGJohn Aug 2015 #214

Your subjective preferences have no bearing on my rights. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #142

The twisted marym625 Aug 2015 #157

How has my owning guns impeded your's or anyone else's rights? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #159

You wont get an answer to that one. TampaAnimusVortex Aug 2015 #270

Thank you. I grew up in a family which had guns. My dad was in law snappyturtle Aug 2015 #305

Dontcha know a dead unarmed victim is morally superior to a live armed one? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #312

Bullshit. beevul Aug 2015 #196

Yep, and we dont even have to do away with the 2nd, all we have to do is read it, randys1 Aug 2015 #156

What exactly is the militia and how is it "nessesary to the security of a free state"? the band leader Aug 2015 #162

That is absolutely incorrect TeddyR Aug 2015 #168

I don't care what you or anyone thinks about my RKBA. GGJohn Aug 2015 #164

Unfortunately HassleCat Aug 2015 #166

no, it's political organizing for a better presidential candidate who is brave enough to CTyankee Aug 2015 #181

A couple problems HassleCat Aug 2015 #184

well, we sure had a great deal to do with helping win WWII. We went from an CTyankee Aug 2015 #262

I agree, however... deathrind Aug 2015 #189

I Thank you marym625 Aug 2015 #255

This is a great list. I would add phylny Aug 2015 #257

Ban all guns!! n/t PowerToThePeople Aug 2015 #198

Absolutely no problem with that. marym625 Aug 2015 #256

Fuck giving in to rapists, muggers and strongarm fucksticks seveneyes Aug 2015 #199

Post removed Post removed Aug 2015 #204

Never. Going. To. Happen. Kang Colby Aug 2015 #206

that is some really fucked up stuff marym625 Aug 2015 #251

Only In The USA colsohlibgal Aug 2015 #217

Very few citizens own military grade weapons, those were outlawed in 86 except for the ones GGJohn Aug 2015 #220

No, it isn't. beevul Aug 2015 #230

+100 marym625 Aug 2015 #246

Smug shit is all good until you are overpowered due to your own choice seveneyes Aug 2015 #218

This message was self-deleted by its author Township75 Aug 2015 #231

wrong but thanks for your thoughts. marym625 Aug 2015 #250

So are you going to burst into republican homes and take their guns from them ? Township75 Aug 2015 #232

Hey there Town! beevul Aug 2015 #235

Hey to you too Township75 Aug 2015 #269

tell me where I said anything about banning guns. marym625 Aug 2015 #275

"I don't care what anyone thinks" seveneyes Aug 2015 #244

ridiculous response. marym625 Aug 2015 #276

Trying for 5? Javaman Aug 2015 #279

Learn some history Omnith Aug 2015 #247

Fine. Let's let people have all the muskets they want. CTyankee Aug 2015 #264

I'm down with that. +10000 marym625 Aug 2015 #282

While we're at it, GGJohn Aug 2015 #306

Quill pens are also OK. Otherwise, the First Amendment doesn't apply friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #311

Funny how they always want to apply the firearms in use during colonial times GGJohn Aug 2015 #313

I'm well aware of the history of this country, marym625 Aug 2015 #277

Would you hold the rest of the Constitution to the same standard that you would apply... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #310

of course marym625 Aug 2015 #315

This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #320

So what are you doing to change it, aside from posting on the Internet? friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #321

I'm REALLY sick of this question marym625 Aug 2015 #323

"I'm positive I'm doing more than you" What has that "doing" achieved,... friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #324

Why, exactly, is "friendly" part of your moniker? marym625 Aug 2015 #325

You are free to ignore any and all of my questions, as well as any and of all my other posts friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #326

I don't alert marym625 Aug 2015 #328

And yet you talk as if you're unaware that it restricts only government. beevul Aug 2015 #327

sigh. marym625 Aug 2015 #329

This message was self-deleted by its author olddots Aug 2015 #322

I am so fucking sick of this. alarimer Aug 2015 #268

Oh, they'll just come back and tell you about that "pesky" 2nd Amendment... CTyankee Aug 2015 #271

False premise. beevul Aug 2015 #316

couldn't agree more marym625 Aug 2015 #278

The toy, I mean gun, no longer has a positive outcome when comparing deaths to randys1 Aug 2015 #301

I love that marym625 Aug 2015 #302

Great point randys1 Aug 2015 #304

Calling a gun a toy shows your lack of knowledge of firearms. eom. GGJohn Aug 2015 #308

Despite your little rant, GGJohn Aug 2015 #307

No. I *will* keep talking about the Second (and First, Fourth, Fifth, Fourteenth, etc) Amendment(s) friendly_iconoclast Aug 2015 #309

Negative ghost rider. beevul Aug 2015 #318

FYI...In Ontario, Canada you can actually own handguns. roamer65 Aug 2015 #319

Yup TeddyR Aug 2015 #330

I agree. that's a big part of the problem. marym625 Aug 2015 #331

I was honored to give this recommendation # 100 n/t Mira Aug 2015 #334

Cool! Thank you! eom marym625 Aug 2015 #335