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Straw Man

(6,948 posts)
102. Last word?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 12:54 PM
Aug 2015

I'm skeptical.

Your argument continues to be that my rationale for a private property owner lawfully banning CC on his property and a business owner denying equal treatment to a class of people in the course of his business is the same, and it is not. You refuse to see that the situations are completely different and involve completely different Constitutional questions. There is no 'broader issue'.

This was always about business owners and what they do on the property where they operate. Did you think we were talking about entering people's homes? The issue is and always was businesses that post their property "No Guns Allowed." And there certainly is a broader issue: the extent to which property owners can discriminate on private property that is open to the public.

I posed the question about the hijab because it bridges the divide between a "class of people" and a voluntary action. I've heard the argument from those who defend the French ban that "they can just leave hijab at home" if they want to attend a public school. I think the underlying rights issues are similar and worthy of discussion. You don't want to discuss it. Your prerogative.

You further argue that a property owner's right to ban CC on his/her property is 'far from absolute', yet you are unable to cite a single case, statute or ordinance that proves otherwise, choosing instead to ridicule my demand for proof.

I gave you a citation showing that in many states business owners cannot bar their employees from having weapons in their cars on company property. This contradicts your contention that the right to bar firearms on private property is absolute under the law. I'll stand: it's far from absolute.

Your demand for "proof" was an attempt to narrow and shift the focus of the discussion. And as I've just pointed out, I did provide proof, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Currently consequences arent much. The irresponsible gun owner simply goes out and buys another one Hoyt Aug 2015 #1
I should be against the law to leave your gun unattended inside a car, or in a house with under 18. Sunlei Aug 2015 #2
If you're going for a day of goose hunting at Colusa National Wildlife Refuge XemaSab Aug 2015 #87
People should at least be held legally liable for the consequences. n/t Crunchy Frog Aug 2015 #93
There is also no requirement that you even have to justhanginon Aug 2015 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #4
off-topic, but who's the girl in your sig? Blue_Tires Aug 2015 #14
Guns, keeping people safe and saving lives.... mikeysnot Aug 2015 #5
Responsible gun owners Glassunion Aug 2015 #6
Stolen and illegal guns are the profit margin for gun companies. onehandle Aug 2015 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #8
There's a place on DU for your CT's. GGJohn Aug 2015 #40
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #9
When I'm going to a place I can't carry, I leave the weapon at home. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #15
Not one I particularly care for, but the one I made. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #19
So, you're OK with violating the property owner's right to insist you not carry? ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #22
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #23
Violating someone else's rights doesn't strike me as a progressive value. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #24
So ... Straw Man Aug 2015 #25
Not at all. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #26
Gee, ... Straw Man Aug 2015 #28
I don't have a game plan. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #29
You forgot one. Straw Man Aug 2015 #31
I didn't forget a thing. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #37
Private property trumps all? Straw Man Aug 2015 #39
Private property trumps your CC rights. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #43
Really? Straw Man Aug 2015 #44
No, I don't care to debate this any further with you, and the two situations are not comparable ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #56
Of course you don't. Straw Man Aug 2015 #58
No, you keep asking me to explain why entirely different fact patterns... ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #59
Tactic? Straw Man Aug 2015 #60
No, it's a tactic. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #61
Because you say it is? Straw Man Aug 2015 #63
No, because it is what it is. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #64
Wrong. Straw Man Aug 2015 #68
Wrong. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #69
I refer you to ... Straw Man Aug 2015 #72
And I asked you to *prove* what you wrote. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #75
Prove what? Straw Man Aug 2015 #78
From post #64: ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #79
Proof? Straw Man Aug 2015 #80
As Reagan famously said, "There you go again!" ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #82
You missed the fact ... Straw Man Aug 2015 #89
The legal fact patterns are NOT analogous, and the rationales are NOT the same! ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #91
Last word? Straw Man Aug 2015 #102
Not all private property is treated the same under the law, branford Aug 2015 #62
Be prepared to defend your logic, branford. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #65
Don't thank me too fast. branford Aug 2015 #67
I thank you for expanding on the legal issues involved. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #70
I would just note that many of statutes preventing discrimination against those branford Aug 2015 #73
Quite true. ColesCountyDem Aug 2015 #74
Without gun free zones folks won't have to leave PSDs in their vehicles. ileus Aug 2015 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #11
Exactly....everyone overlooks the obvious solution. ileus Aug 2015 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #17
That's an insane position to take. Wow Action_Patrol Aug 2015 #21
I know a few business owners who don't want guns in their stores... Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #36
It is safer not to carry at all dbackjon Aug 2015 #30
Care to support your claim? ManiacJoe Aug 2015 #90
Learn to go places without a gun or two strapped to your body. Do you normally wear Hoyt Aug 2015 #32
Just for you. GGJohn Aug 2015 #41
It's a personal choice that adversely affects society, just like your 3 or 4 gun safes Hoyt Aug 2015 #46
Theres a difference between adversely effecting society, and simply bothering you. beevul Aug 2015 #47
You are wrong, but I get you need to protect your precious gunz. Hoyt Aug 2015 #50
Explain why he's wrong? eom. GGJohn Aug 2015 #51
Compelling argument. beevul Aug 2015 #53
How does our CCW's adversely affect society? GGJohn Aug 2015 #49
I know you supported him, but Zimmerman is a good example, as is OP. Hoyt Aug 2015 #54
I supported Zimmerman? GGJohn Aug 2015 #55
That apology will never happen Duckhunter935 Aug 2015 #77
Oh I know that, GGJohn Aug 2015 #81
Naw I normally just carry my personal safety device. ileus Aug 2015 #57
You actually carry a lethal weapon. If it were just a "PSD," you and the other gunners would not Hoyt Aug 2015 #71
It's not lethal if not used, and it's not a weapon if used for protection. ileus Aug 2015 #85
Yoy wouldn't strap it on if it were not lethal and "empowering." Hoyt Aug 2015 #88
I agree pintobean Aug 2015 #34
(properly placed this time) You must not have gotten the memo... beevul Aug 2015 #48
Lots of victim blaming here Lee-Lee Aug 2015 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #18
That was my first thought. pintobean Aug 2015 #27
Deleted, responded to wrong post. beevul Aug 2015 #45
Look. Owning a gun is a right. Glassunion Aug 2015 #66
If you choose to place your deadly weapon in a location where others can access it, Crunchy Frog Aug 2015 #94
Pointing out irresponsibility doesn't preclude blaming the thief. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2015 #96
That NRA bumper sticker tells everyone that you've a gun in your glovebox NightWatcher Aug 2015 #20
I keep a water moccasin in my center console and label the lid: "Ruger Inside." Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #35
I keep a Western Diamondback in my glove compartment GGJohn Aug 2015 #42
In keeping with the gun theme... beevul Aug 2015 #52
I'm guessing the criminals know where the gun-free zones are. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #33
Except of course when a cop uses their gun to commit a crime. Rex Aug 2015 #38
"Steal my gun" sticker HassleCat Aug 2015 #76
Every stolen gun is a second ammendment vioation... sanatanadharma Aug 2015 #83
Sigh...not this nonsense again. beevul Aug 2015 #84
Huh? The -only- way a stolen gun is a violation of the Second Amendment branford Aug 2015 #86
"Responsible" gun owners, SECURE YOUR FUCKING FIREARMS! Crunchy Frog Aug 2015 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #95
I can't see blaming/punishing the theft victim for future use of stolen items by criminals. aikoaiko Aug 2015 #97
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #98
I understand your position on stolen guns. Does that apply to other stolen items used in crimes? aikoaiko Aug 2015 #99
To put it gently, your interlocutor seems to have found your question to be awkward friendly_iconoclast Sep 2015 #103
One partial solution would be... Orrex Aug 2015 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author Agschmid Aug 2015 #101
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