General Discussion

dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)

26. Incomplete equation

Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:16 PM

Aug 2015

They may be state programs that don't provide revenue, but they reduce the state's firefighting expenditures, and your equation saying the monthly firefighter's wage is less than the cost of imprisoning someone leaves out other possible benefits the state gets from incarceration, such as other things the prisoners do, contractual obligations to companies like CCA, etc.

It should be expensive to incarcerate people, and we should do far less of it. For that reasson I am none too thrilled about using prison labor. We do need useful and rehabilitative things for prisoners, and they may prefer firefighting to sitting in a cell, but at this point we have a massive overincarceration problem, and need to deinsentivize the government from imprisoning people, to whatever extent is possible.

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30 Percent of California's Forest Firefighters Are Prisoners [View all] Cheese Sandwich Aug 2015 OP

Con crews are fine HassleCat Aug 2015 #1

You are fine with slave labor? RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #3

"all of whom have volunteered to participate in the program" uppityperson Aug 2015 #20

Volunteer prisoners! Neat! RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #24

Prisoners who are imprisoned!!!! omg!!! uppityperson Aug 2015 #27

A prisoner's choice is no choice at all. RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #48

You should read into the objectives of the program nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #54

Perhaps. Perhaps this situation and this particular prison system is an exception RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #58

You are mostly correct in those assumptions about the California Department of Corrections nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #59

LOL, not a deep thinker I bet. nt Logical Aug 2015 #49

For convicts? We are not talking productive citizens yeoman6987 Aug 2015 #55

Convicts of which laws? Outcomes of which prejudices and systemic pressures? RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #57

That's true but different subject yeoman6987 Aug 2015 #60

Two bucks an hour for putting one's life on the line Art_from_Ark Sep 2015 #67

Mother Jones did not look at the full costs nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #76

They are not slaves or anything remotely like that HassleCat Aug 2015 #61

Prison labor is slave labor. Brickbat Aug 2015 #2

This ^^^^ nt Mnemosyne Aug 2015 #4

Funny. Most prisoners on the fire lines would disagree with you. Xithras Aug 2015 #6

Nothing you say changes the fact that it's slave labor. Brickbat Aug 2015 #7

No, it's not. Forced prison labor would be slave labor. HappyPlace Aug 2015 #28

Are you forgetting they get two days off their sentence for every day worked yeoman6987 Aug 2015 #56

"Prison labor is only a problem when it's forced." What garbage. RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #8

Of course it has issues, but there's no evidence of abuse in the CalFire program. Xithras Aug 2015 #10

Drug laws and homelessness laws are typically the ones that do little more than fill prisons. RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author stuffmatters Aug 2015 #13

Incomplete equation dreamnightwind Aug 2015 #26

Peter to rob paul more precisely nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #53

I acknowledge that it may lower recidivism but dreamnightwind Sep 2015 #65

If this was any private prison for profit managing this nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #66

And I forgot a few points nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #68

Some good points dreamnightwind Sep 2015 #69

I am all for ending the war on drugs nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #72

Great post. You said it far better than I did stuffmatters Sep 2015 #78

Yep. progressoid Aug 2015 #9

We have talked to crews on the fire line, over jugs of water nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #17

I've taught a number of them. Xithras Aug 2015 #23

They are incredible nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #29

Yep. No two ways about it. hifiguy Aug 2015 #21

I used to work with parolees. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #31

It's like you think I haven't. Brickbat Aug 2015 #41

Well, if you've spoken to them about it, Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #43

So, so are volunteers for political campaigns? nt Logical Aug 2015 #51

It's only slave labor if they're forced to work to make somebody a profit tularetom Aug 2015 #33

The word "volunteer" must confuse you. nt Logical Aug 2015 #50

Prison education is slave education... LanternWaste Sep 2015 #73

Lantern Waste = Creek Dog = KCR. nt clarice Sep 2015 #79

Gee whiz, Newest Reality Aug 2015 #5

The program is run by a STATE AGENCY, that be CAL FIRE nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #18

Profit is not involved. Don't you understand the concept of the commons? tularetom Aug 2015 #34

Prison labor profits both Ca AND the companies that provide it. Kamala Harris is plain creepy here. stuffmatters Aug 2015 #12

The company that runs this is CAL FIRE a state agency nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #80

I know someone that has wanted to be a firefighter their entire lives untrue Aug 2015 #14

Except CAL FIRE staffs every year up with sesaonal fire fighrers nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #16

this is wrong. untrue Aug 2015 #30

I will put it this way nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #36

I was a volunteer firefighter for twenty years tularetom Aug 2015 #37

I was a medic for ten years south of the border nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #39

These are seasonal firefighters. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #44

More than one of these guys and gals nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #15

That's interesting Cheese Sandwich Aug 2015 #25

This program started early in the 1940s, the modern form nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author untrue Aug 2015 #35

This is about rehabiltation nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #38

This message was self-deleted by its author untrue Aug 2015 #40

So you woudl rather have these people come in and out of prison for the rest of their lives? nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author untrue Aug 2015 #46

I recommend you go to your local member of the legislature nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #47

If I was in prison I would be begging to get on a fire crew. Throd Aug 2015 #19

+1000, they want to be outside the walls. Make them feel free. No one is forcing them either. nt Logical Aug 2015 #52

And of course MJ did not bother with Prop 47 nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #22

K&R nt. ion_theory Aug 2015 #42

Will they get recognition as "first responders?" AND don't forget a huge portion of cheap labor kelliekat44 Aug 2015 #62

Tell me exactly how is Cal Fire making out like bandits nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #70

Why not? They volunteered. 840high Sep 2015 #63

This is the definition of a rehabilitation program in prisons. ellisonz Sep 2015 #64

It is not because people are progressive or conservative nadinbrzezinski Sep 2015 #71

So THAT'S why we incarcerate so damn many people! KamaAina Sep 2015 #74

Xposted to California group KamaAina Sep 2015 #75

They're covered by Cal/OSHA too. mahatmakanejeeves Sep 2015 #77