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In reply to the discussion: When Racism Slips Into Everyday Speech [View all]DirkGently
(12,151 posts)61. But that was never "the underlying meaning."
That's the problem here. Something that went on for a long time at one point acquires a racist variation, so we're supposed to dump it on the historically incorrect theory that it's now always racist?
There are racist contortions of everything in our culture. That does not make everything "accidentally racist" as this idiotic article contends.
Origins[edit]
The first record of a similar rhyme is from about 1815, when children in New York City are said to have repeated the rhyme:
Hana, man, mona, mike;
Barcelona, bona, strike;
Hare, ware, frown, vanac;
Harrico, warico, we wo, wac.[3]
The "Hana, man" was found by Henry Bolton in the US, Ireland and Scotland in the 1880s but was unknown in England until later in the century.[3] Bolton also found a similar rhyme in German:
Ene, tene, mone, mei,
Pastor, lone, bone, strei,
Ene, fune, herke, berke,
Wer? Wie? Wo? Was?[3]
Variations of this rhyme, with the nonsense/counting first line have been collected since the 1820s, such as this Scottish one ..
Hickery Pickery, pease scon
Where will this young man gang?
He'll go east, he'll go west,
he'll go to the crow's nest.
Hickery Pickery, Hickery Pickery[6]
More recognizable as a variation, which even includes the 'toe' and 'olla' from Kipling's version is
Eenie, Meenie, Tipsy, toe;
Olla bolla Domino,
Okka, Pokka dominocha,
Hy! Pon! Tush!
This was one of many variants of "counting out rhymes" collected by Bolton in 1888.[7]
A Cornish version collected in 1882 runs:
Ena, mena, mona, mite,
Bascalora, bora, bite,
Hugga, bucca, bau,
Eggs, butter, cheese, bread.
Stick, stock, stone dead - OUT.[8]
One theory about the origins of the rhyme is that it is descended from Old English or Welsh counting, similar to the old Shepherd's count "Yan Tan Tethera" or the Cornish "Eena, mea, mona, mite".[3]
Another possibility is that British colonials returning from the Sub-Continent introduced a doggerel version of an Indian children's rhyme used in the game of carom billiards:
ubi eni mana bou,
baji neki baji thou,
elim tilim latim gou.[9]
The rhyme inspired the song "Eena Meena Deeka" in the 1957 Bollywood film Aasha.
The first record of a similar rhyme is from about 1815, when children in New York City are said to have repeated the rhyme:
Hana, man, mona, mike;
Barcelona, bona, strike;
Hare, ware, frown, vanac;
Harrico, warico, we wo, wac.[3]
The "Hana, man" was found by Henry Bolton in the US, Ireland and Scotland in the 1880s but was unknown in England until later in the century.[3] Bolton also found a similar rhyme in German:
Ene, tene, mone, mei,
Pastor, lone, bone, strei,
Ene, fune, herke, berke,
Wer? Wie? Wo? Was?[3]
Variations of this rhyme, with the nonsense/counting first line have been collected since the 1820s, such as this Scottish one ..
Hickery Pickery, pease scon
Where will this young man gang?
He'll go east, he'll go west,
he'll go to the crow's nest.
Hickery Pickery, Hickery Pickery[6]
More recognizable as a variation, which even includes the 'toe' and 'olla' from Kipling's version is
Eenie, Meenie, Tipsy, toe;
Olla bolla Domino,
Okka, Pokka dominocha,
Hy! Pon! Tush!
This was one of many variants of "counting out rhymes" collected by Bolton in 1888.[7]
A Cornish version collected in 1882 runs:
Ena, mena, mona, mite,
Bascalora, bora, bite,
Hugga, bucca, bau,
Eggs, butter, cheese, bread.
Stick, stock, stone dead - OUT.[8]
One theory about the origins of the rhyme is that it is descended from Old English or Welsh counting, similar to the old Shepherd's count "Yan Tan Tethera" or the Cornish "Eena, mea, mona, mite".[3]
Another possibility is that British colonials returning from the Sub-Continent introduced a doggerel version of an Indian children's rhyme used in the game of carom billiards:
ubi eni mana bou,
baji neki baji thou,
elim tilim latim gou.[9]
The rhyme inspired the song "Eena Meena Deeka" in the 1957 Bollywood film Aasha.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eeny,_meeny,_miny,_moe
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There is plenty of ACTUAL racism to be found these days. There is really no need
jonno99
Sep 2015
#3
What specifically leads you to believe that particulars of etymology generates discord?
LanternWaste
Sep 2015
#23
Personally I'm a fan of studying etymology. What "leads me to believe" (and I could be wrong with
jonno99
Sep 2015
#33
Indeed, it is quite interesting to learn the etiology of words and phrases.
uppityperson
Sep 2015
#6
Eh. A few of these are just wrong. They're Internet memes without any real truth.
Xithras
Sep 2015
#5
Perpetually offended? Are you a minority or are you a white person therefore privileged?
randys1
Sep 2015
#26
"Eenie meenie miney mo" actually IS racist. It's one of a handful she got right.
Xithras
Sep 2015
#17
So when my 6-year old nephew does "eenie meenie minie mo, catch a tiger by the toe"
Nye Bevan
Sep 2015
#21
Bert Fitzgibbons, who is listed in your link as the author, wrote minstrel shows
gollygee
Sep 2015
#83
Except running around with a pointy white hood is still recognized as clearly racist
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Sep 2015
#74
A Washington, DC city councilmember created a huge uproar by using "niggardly"
KamaAina
Sep 2015
#20
George Carlin would tell us not to discard words but discard from civility the assholes
randys1
Sep 2015
#28
Except niggardly has none of those problems and is usually used quite properly.
whatthehey
Sep 2015
#96
But "thing" just doesn't make sense in that context. What "thing"? There was no
tblue37
Sep 2015
#65
"The word 'picnic' originated with crowds gathering to witness lynchings"- Snopes says FALSE
Nye Bevan
Sep 2015
#16
Please don't use the word "unsavory". It rhymes with "fun slavery", so is best avoided.
Nye Bevan
Sep 2015
#29
Doesn't the "peanut gallery" refer to cheap seats? Even in parts of the country with very few
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#31
Baby Boomers learned "the Peanut Gallery" from the show "Pinky Lee." NPR can just get over it.
WinkyDink
Sep 2015
#50
They also left room for the "neener neener neener, you're a bad person if you use this" scold.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Sep 2015
#89
It's sad that ignorance (and fantasy etymology) is so much stronger than knowledge.
Romulox
Sep 2015
#115