White people don't want to talk about it

[aikoaiko]

426. If Hawking or Krugman came on to this discussion board and posted topics, yes, I...

..would expect them to engage in discussions with me and not expect only people equivalent to their knowledge of their disciplines to address them. I do not expect differently of Black people. I fully acknowledge that I cannot fully understand the Black experience, but surely we can discuss and exchange ideas.

I too would hope that people would attempt to use discussions of racism as a learning experience, with a recognition that all opinions are not created equal, but to realize that some are equal. Discussing, challenging, and synthesizing is how people learn among equals. I certainly hope you consider blacks and whites equal on this board even if we have different levels of knowledge about subjects. The idea of a one-way channel of information flow seems strange and contradictory from someone who claims to want to have discussions.

Of course there is a difference being a member of the group that is victimizes by racism and being a member of the group that perpetuates racisms. It seems trivial to point that out, so what exactly are you trying to show? I also don't understand why you anchor the second example to the phrase "vicarious observer" when the issue is white persons' actions in racist societies.

There is a difference between saying "well, Mr. white man ... that might be your experience with racism; but, that is not my experience with it (as a primary victim of it), and "well, Mr. Black man ... that might be your experience with racism; but, that is not my experience with it (as a vicarious observer)."

The following distinction is lost on me because both involve relating nonidentical experiences based on the attributes that are similar...

There is a difference between taking what Black people tell you about their/our experience with racism (as one being assaulted by it) and applying that testimony to your life as a white person, e.g., "Okay. I hear you saying, you feel dismissed/not listened to when people argue the same argument in response to what you just explained. (Remembering your most recent discussion of climate change with a climate-change denier) I know how that feels. I will try not to do that again." ... and attempting to apply your experience with racism, as an observer (regardless of how close you are to the actual victim), e.g., "I was brought up poor and have been treated unfairly because of my poverty. That's just like facing racism. So I understand the effects of racism" ... its the difference between empathy and self-interested, false equivalency born of privilege.

I liked that DUer's post because it contained an admission of ignorance and a desire to remove that deficit. To me, that is an admirable characteristic.

Yep, that's pretty much what I said.