General Discussion

LostOne4Ever

(9,746 posts)

134. Desmond Tutu? Anyone Liberal who is for women's and gay rights?

Mon Sep 21, 2015, 03:17 AM

Sep 2015

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I liked the pope too at first.

But time and time again I saw him giving lip service to social issue, only to read between the lines and see nothing had changed. I read up about his comments against marriage equality in Argentina, and his calling gay adoption discrimination against children.

How can I read that and not see animosity? As a skeptic/ scientific person who wants to base their opinions on actual evidence and logic how can I say he is SECRETLY for gay rights when there is NO evidence to back that up and quote after quote to show the opposite?

Simply because I want to believe? Sorry that has never worked out for me.

When his actions belie his words. He has done nothing to help the left on these areas, and has done plenty to hurt us. While his words, have been proven to be two-faced and intentionally vague time and time again.

He has done nothing to help the left on these areas, and has done plenty to hurt us, and it infuriates me to see these posts praising him. He and his church are actively hurting people![/font]

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Pope Francis Smacks Churches: “If You Don’t Help the Poor and Needy, then Pay Taxes Like a Business” [View all] damnedifIknow Sep 2015 OP

WOW. nt LiberalElite Sep 2015 #1

Sounding more and more like a Godless socialist just before his WH welcome reception on Wedneday. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #2

I truly believe he is a good man. gvstn Sep 2015 #8

I do think he's aware of the possibility coolepairc Sep 2015 #48

Yeah, I remember that. gvstn Sep 2015 #62

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #3

Is he asking the Catholic Church in the USA to pay taxes? BKH70041 Sep 2015 #4

Do you hear that Joel? damnedifIknow Sep 2015 #5

I had no idea who that is and had to look it up. BKH70041 Sep 2015 #7

It's all these Protestant mega-churches that we need to worry about. smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #43

Some of the right wing Catholics I know are not liking the Popes message WHEN CRABS ROAR Sep 2015 #50

Why don't you check and see for yourself how many charities the Catholic church runs and supports demosincebirth Sep 2015 #70

Maybe it's more like he's the equivalent of an olden day British King ... Babel_17 Sep 2015 #32

so pope darling when are YOU and YOUR church gonna start paying taxes? hypocrite nt msongs Sep 2015 #6

Perhaps you didn't understand the reference "convent" in the quote struggle4progress Sep 2015 #12

The Archdiocese of NY is the largest non governmental real estate holder in NYC. So.... Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #35

NY allows nonprofit orgs to conduct tax-exempt activities that generate profits, if the profits struggle4progress Sep 2015 #46

End the religious exemption and let them refile as a non profit Lordquinton Sep 2015 #66

2013. Next question. DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2015 #57

That IS what he is saying to HIS churches. Either help the poor/needy, or pay taxes. MADem Sep 2015 #59

I'd love to know of one merely person who's not a hypocrite. I also love fiction. LanternWaste Sep 2015 #143

Oh that is rich ... and I mean rich. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #9

supreme hypocrisy Skittles Sep 2015 #10

Hey - the Vatican took in 840high Sep 2015 #21

But he is helping the poor. progressoid Sep 2015 #39

The Vatican has been there since before the medieval age treestar Sep 2015 #82

The Vatican is sitting on mountains of gold, real estate & huge amounts of $$. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #88

Precisely how much are they sitting on, and how many mouths will that feed for how many years? LanternWaste Sep 2015 #144

Right. Nobody knows. The Vatican isn't exactly known for its transparency. Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #147

First mancrush ever! Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #11

no matter what this man does to the most roguevalley Sep 2015 #25

Ditto here. I can't help but like him. nt Live and Learn Sep 2015 #27

He really does to seem to believe in the basics of Catholic teachings. gvstn Sep 2015 #28

He's just restating what Christ taught. n/t AngryOldDem Sep 2015 #36

He possibly represents a new awakening - just in the nick of time. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #63

newsflash Skittles Sep 2015 #75

Yes, but that's his problem. It makes him repugnant. mr blur Sep 2015 #78

Popes that don't follow dogma, suddenly die. gvstn Sep 2015 #116

"Popes that don't follow dogma, suddenly die." Rob H. Sep 2015 #121

Radical Popes get poisoned, or did back in the day. gvstn Sep 2015 #123

People from all walks of life got poisoned back in the day... LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #124

Popes are just people. gvstn Sep 2015 #128

He IS THE CHURCH and can issue infallable edicts LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #129

I hate the way you use the word bigot to discribe Pope Francis. gvstn Sep 2015 #132

Desmond Tutu? Anyone Liberal who is for women's and gay rights? LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #134

Obviously gvstn Sep 2015 #137

How else would you describe him? Hypocrite? mr blur Sep 2015 #136

This is spectacularly amusing since the popes minions were major plaintiffs in suing to block AtheistCrusader Sep 2015 #125

No, he's pretty much toeing the same line Benedict did Lordquinton Sep 2015 #126

You'll see he will make changes. gvstn Sep 2015 #127

I can because I used to be Catholic and he hasn't changed ANYTHING in over two years (nt). LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #130

He hasn't said anything different from Benedict Lordquinton Sep 2015 #131

Yup, he is a goddamn hater. gvstn Sep 2015 #133

Tell that to all the people who died because the RCC tells them they can't use contraception LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #135

Yes he is a hater Lordquinton Sep 2015 #138

I am saying one man can't change 1500 years of doctrine in a day. gvstn Sep 2015 #140

Exactily what doctrine is he trying to change? Lordquinton Sep 2015 #148

The Catholic Church is killing people. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #139

I have no love for the Catholic Church. gvstn Sep 2015 #141

His church, his bishops are *killing people* PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #142

I call things "better PR" if I have to make up stuff, too. LanternWaste Sep 2015 #146

He literally hired a PR man straight from FOX news Lordquinton Sep 2015 #149

+1000 smirkymonkey Sep 2015 #44

You will never win...not here on DU. demosincebirth Sep 2015 #71

You admire a man who actively fought against gay marriage in Argentina? LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #122

ha ha, love you Elmer S. E. Dump....... a kennedy Sep 2015 #33

60 years, still 16 at heart. Only YOU define yourself. Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #61

Holy . . . Shit! NBachers Sep 2015 #13

He Said It Yallow Sep 2015 #14

here's whats's worse... StoneCarver Sep 2015 #53

It's a little hypocritical but at least he said it. YOHABLO Sep 2015 #15

My thoughts exactly. *Somebody* had to say it. n/t nomorenomore08 Sep 2015 #17

It will take a Second Coming to fix this Demeter Sep 2015 #16

SANDERS-POPE FRANCIS 2016 Left Coast2020 Sep 2015 #18

Heh! YES! Add Elizabeth Warren . . . cer7711 Sep 2015 #22

OMGosh, now that's a winning ticket.... eom a kennedy Sep 2015 #34

Pleas stop suggesting an anti gay bigot who opposes contraception as if he was a good person. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #37

This can't be said often enough. bvf Sep 2015 #47

+1000000000 gollygee Sep 2015 #51

For the love of Athena someone Pin Bluenorthwest's reply to the top of this forum LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #67

What am utterly offensive and disgusting suggestion. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #45

Offensive and disgusting suggestion, no. Stupid? Yes. demosincebirth Sep 2015 #72

Did you miss the part where I said, "... even in jest"? I stand by my reply. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #73

It's all three Rob H. Sep 2015 #74

aw don't you know? Skittles Sep 2015 #76

Me Likes The Pope Francis Smack Down - Go Pope Go cantbeserious Sep 2015 #19

Wow squared! Duppers Sep 2015 #20

Yes! SoapBox Sep 2015 #23

This liberal progressive agnostic raised evangelical loves him some Pope Frank! phleshdef Sep 2015 #24

Frankie Two Sticks merrily Sep 2015 #30

I like this Pope. PatrickforO Sep 2015 #26

And, according to the right wing, Jesuits are Socialist. merrily Sep 2015 #31

Has anyone sent this link to the IRS? merrily Sep 2015 #29

They don't need to. The IRS is smarter than the Pope. former9thward Sep 2015 #52

Since he was apparently referring to European practice truebluegreen Sep 2015 #56

Now let's see... former9thward Sep 2015 #58

The posters in this thread are responsible for deciding who the Pope was talking to? truebluegreen Sep 2015 #64

It is you that just wants to argue. former9thward Sep 2015 #65

In practice, the IRS is much more lenient to Catholic churches and their activities than that. merrily Sep 2015 #77

The IRS is like most government bodies. former9thward Sep 2015 #80

Then churches are taxed on their property like any other business? Orrex Sep 2015 #87

The land is not being used to generate profit. former9thward Sep 2015 #89

That's an obvious attempt at distraction Orrex Sep 2015 #90

Their businesses ARE taxed like any other business. former9thward Sep 2015 #91

I have this fantasy in which you give an honest and straighforward answer Orrex Sep 2015 #92

And I have the same fantasy about you. former9thward Sep 2015 #95

In short, you now concede that churches are not taxed the same as other corporations Orrex Sep 2015 #97

Not businesses like child care which are on school or church grounds PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #93

Does it generate a profit for the church? former9thward Sep 2015 #96

We don't know because churches are not accountable. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #98

Of course they are. former9thward Sep 2015 #99

No, they aren't. They do not have to file financial disclose like other non profits. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #100

Wait--are you saying that they're not accountable like other businesses? Orrex Sep 2015 #101

So? former9thward Sep 2015 #106

I'll tell you where I live: reality. I'm a contributing member of FFRF and ACLU, both of which PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #111

You are allowing a church to cheat. former9thward Sep 2015 #114

Lol PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #115

They are also not subject to audit "like anyone else". That's PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #102

They are subject to audit. former9thward Sep 2015 #104

But do they pay taxes like other businesses? Orrex Sep 2015 #105

I have said yes on their businesses countless times in this thread. former9thward Sep 2015 #108

But they don't pay property taxes like other businesses Orrex Sep 2015 #109

Not "just like anybody else". PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #110

You tried to imply they could not be audited. former9thward Sep 2015 #112

Oh, ffs. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #113

Now that I think about it... Orrex Sep 2015 #119

Oh, great. Igel Sep 2015 #38

Bravo. Thanks for posting. nm rhett o rick Sep 2015 #40

and how about when they play politics, which they shouldn't be doing with their tax-exempt status? niyad Sep 2015 #41

Awesome!! BuddhaGirl Sep 2015 #42

They expect. 10% tithe, they should use at lease 10% for charity. alfredo Sep 2015 #49

The Pope does not know U.S. tax code. former9thward Sep 2015 #54

According to the article, he was addressing a common practice in Europe. MADem Sep 2015 #60

What about church property? Orrex Sep 2015 #81

Oh, hell no. And the RCC and LDS churches are the biggest drain on local communities in this regard. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #83

Thank you. Orrex Sep 2015 #84

Absolutely. The congregants use public roads to attend church, PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #85

Also, other non profits are far more accountable than the churches. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #86

I love this man angryvet Sep 2015 #55

Unless things have changed TexasProgresive Sep 2015 #68

Kick and R BeanMusical Sep 2015 #69

Did he sell all their treasures??? ileus Sep 2015 #79

they sure don't give to the poor and needy fadedrose Sep 2015 #94

Oh Bravo! Faux pas Sep 2015 #103

WWJD? K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #107

Pope Francis is to the Catholic Church as Bernie Sanders is to Politics. Dont call me Shirley Sep 2015 #117

Am so enjoying RW heads spinning over this Pope OldHippieChick Sep 2015 #118

K&R! Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #120

Dear Pope Francis flamingdem Sep 2015 #145