General Discussion

LostOne4Ever

(9,767 posts)

24. Part of Changing it includes calling the church out on its bigotry

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 09:53 PM

Sep 2015

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]But, on this issue, the Pope has been abundantly clear.[/font]

http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-abortion-and-homosexual-marriage

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]“At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother, and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

Cardinal Bergoglio continued: “Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]It is hard for there to be room for interpretation when the pope has talked on this topic before.

Now if you want to focus solely upon the economic aspect of the pope that is fine; but, unless you are posting in the catholic safehaven, you can't expect to do so on DU without facing push back.

Simply put, given his global affluence and influence, the pope is quite possibly the single greatest enemy to women's and LGBTQ rights in the world. No one who is deeply supportive of those issues or secularism, are going to be pleased to see him PRAISED on a website that is supposed to be for allies to their cause.

Imagine that all these pro-pope threads were pro-Santorum? Or pro-Pat Robertson? Or pro-David Duke? Do you think liberals would stay quiet with that?

There are allies to economic justice who are not homophobic or misogynists to praise. Why insist on praising one who has hurt so many people?

How about focusing on someone who is pro-economic justice and pro-lgbtq.[/font]

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The Pope's comments on family and marriage seem very much open to interpretation-WRONG [View all] Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 OP

The family is threatened but you claim this is neutral? Do you know what the World Meeting of Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #1

Families aren't the enemy. LWolf Sep 2015 #62

There's no evidence that he views anything but families headed by the "complemenatary sexes" as... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #66

Sure there is. LWolf Sep 2015 #69

Pope: marriage between man and woman, no to gender ideology muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #73

Open door. LWolf Sep 2015 #88

Christians, in general, base their life on a Jesus/God of their Bible, through a selective reading.. Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #75

I admit LWolf Sep 2015 #87

There are other morally objectional things Jesus says or does, but what I'm really puzzled by... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #89

Well, he has also said that gay adoption is child abuse. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #2

How can any teo people wishing to maaDivorce and child abuse and neglect are greater threatd surely. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #8

On second thought, he probably also meant birth control and abortion. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #3

It includes divorce, cohabitation, two working parents, no time for families, etc. rug Sep 2015 #4

Since when are any of those problems? At least in a societal context. Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #9

Pay attention. rug Sep 2015 #10

And yet he also rants against marriage equality endlessly, not about divorce nor cohabitation Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #11

Actually, he rants against all of them. rug Sep 2015 #13

That doesn't really make it better, and I'm glad that mayor is there to challenge the Pope... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #15

So am I. rug Sep 2015 #17

No its not threatened, and those "causes" are people's choices, do you want to remove said choices? Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #12

The hell it isn't. Read a few CPS files and you'll see the causes. rug Sep 2015 #14

You were listing symptoms, and possible symptoms, not causes... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #19

Thanks for the personal witness. rug Sep 2015 #20

The point being that if they can improve or don't improve family relationships is no one's business. Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #22

Families in crisis are a social concern as well. rug Sep 2015 #25

I'm simply mystified as to what you are talking about. Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #38

The Catholic Church has been concerned with economic and public policy issues pnwmom Sep 2015 #35

No they didn't, there was no Catholic Church at that time, but again, that's irrelevent... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #42

Fine. Substitute the words, "followers of Christ." He spoke a great deal about pnwmom Sep 2015 #47

Sure they have the right to free speech, but they do not have the right to impose their... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #49

Most Catholics don't listen to them about those issues, which is why Catholics pnwmom Sep 2015 #51

So how do you condone the teachings in places that are not America and rich? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #53

Oh, stop. That has zero impact on them, so it doesn't matter that Africans are dying!! PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #61

Excellent post. Thank you. nomorenomore08 Sep 2015 #85

It always cracks me up when people use this as a response to archaic misogynistic doctrine PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #59

Only because their Church is politically weak enough here to not be able to restrict... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #68

Also, immigration trends loyalsister Sep 2015 #82

A good point. rug Sep 2015 #83

World Meeting of Families Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #5

Its called "dog whistle politics", similar to Reagan talking about "Cadillac driving welfare queens" Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #6

Haven't you ever known anyone whose views on LGBT have evolved over the years? pnwmom Sep 2015 #36

Where is the evidence that this Pope has evolved on this issue? Has he pulled a George Wallace... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #44

I think he is far less judgmental than any other Pope I have seen. For me, pnwmom Sep 2015 #45

That's an assertion without fact, do you have evidence that he's far less judgemental? n/t Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #60

Good grief. "Assertion without fact." We are talking about religion, religious beliefs, pnwmom Sep 2015 #63

His out of context quote about celibate, homosexual priests is NOT relevent... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #64

Yes, it IS relevant. In context it goes far beyond anything any previous Pope pnwmom Sep 2015 #65

Not really, in fact, the Catechism, for all its bigoted language, recognizes that being... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #67

Why don't you, as a straight person, tell us what to think? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #7

Why don't you as a gay person think before you speak. Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #27

I'd also like to point out that I first offered an information heavy response which you ignored Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #58

I think, as heterosexuals, it's all too easy for us to minimize the problematic aspects nomorenomore08 Sep 2015 #86

Dichotomies are everywhere Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #34

Is that supposed to mean something, did the Vatican state that they demoted him because of... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #50

That story is a year old and not even the truth. I challenge you to offer proof that that man was Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #54

Are you really not sure what he meant? LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #16

No, actually, I'm really not sure Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #18

I didn't villify you LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #23

Agreed, you weren't vilifying me. In fact, I'm sorry that I implied you were. Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #26

He is the Pope now and you are quoting from him when he was a Cardinal. pnwmom Sep 2015 #32

His words as Cardinal were very clear and very ugly. To balance that requires very clear support. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #55

If the Pope actually wants to dial back on the culture war stuff that is good. bklyncowgirl Sep 2015 #21

Part of Changing it includes calling the church out on its bigotry LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #24

Your quote is from before he was Pope. How do you know his views haven't evolved pnwmom Sep 2015 #29

I could post the entire 'who am I to judge' speech again. It's not pro gay, it's a rant against 'the Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #56

This is so well said... SidDithers Sep 2015 #30

Also, Catholic.com is a lay-run, RW site. Try NCRonline.org for a different point of view. pnwmom Sep 2015 #33

Here's the pope's own media organisation, quoting him after he became pope: muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #74

He's worried that the "culture of the temporary" has led many people to give up on marriage pnwmom Sep 2015 #76

OK, with emphasis, since you were unable to see it: muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #77

I think you're reading more to that statement than the statement says. pnwmom Sep 2015 #78

Pope warns same-sex marriage 'threatens the family' and 'disfigures God's plan for creation' muriel_volestrangler Sep 2015 #79

And I disagree with him on that. pnwmom Sep 2015 #80

+1 BuddhaGirl Sep 2015 #84

I agree. And I thought the ambiguity was deliberate. nt pnwmom Sep 2015 #28

I agree. The speech was not a throw-away. Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #31

You'd have to be real naive... MellowDem Sep 2015 #37

Well, those words you just spat at me have me convinced. Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #39

An apologist for fucking sure... MellowDem Sep 2015 #40

I would suggest you back off dude CajunBlazer Sep 2015 #43

And the sanctimonious privilege continues... MellowDem Sep 2015 #48

You can't turn an ocean liner around a few feet CajunBlazer Sep 2015 #70

So these traditions of the slow ship are like the 'heritage' of the Confederate Flag? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #81

The kind of post you're responding to is why I'm slowly weaning myself off message boards. AngryOldDem Sep 2015 #72

Depends on how you define a "family" (n/t) CajunBlazer Sep 2015 #41

No, they really don't...nt SidDithers Sep 2015 #46

I appreciate that he didn't mention same sex marriage explicitly. David__77 Sep 2015 #52

Some reading on the World Meeting of Families mentioned by Francis in the OP: Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #57

Pope McDreamy's PR team is GENIUS! PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #71

This pope. Same as the last pope but with a silken mouth Stinky The Clown Sep 2015 #90