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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
52. Well hell I can think of dozens of ideas that are better than our current system
Fri Sep 25, 2015, 04:44 AM
Sep 2015

The question is as always getting there.

1. The health insurance industry employs about 750K people (it's roughly a quarter of all insurance employment). While they won't all lose their jobs, most of them will, and we need to find something for them to do.

1a. Simultaneously, Medicare Administration staffing will need to expand by (this is my rough guess) about 150%, along with a similar increase in contracting. This seems like an easy solution to 1, and in a perfect world it is, but the Government is so unbelievably slow at ramping up hiring that it would probably end up looking like healthcare.gov but ten times as big.

2. 10% only counts the cost of the treatments currently being delivered to people (this also bothers me about the bill's analysis). Usage will go up. That is the entire point of doing this in the first place. If the 12% of uninsured Americans use health care services at the same rate as insured Americans, it takes us back up to about 15%. But the big question is the currently underinsured: we don't know what their usage rate will be, and if it approaches the rate of people with better insurance, it's going to wind up costing a lot more than our system does now. We simply don't know enough about the rate of underutilization by underinsured people, which is why I think it's dishonest to say we know this will save money. It's not very difficult at all to imagine a scenario where it costs more, if you accept the premise that there is a large amount of underutilization currently.

3. Even if it's the best case and we cut the 17% of our GDP to 12% (IIRC it's that and not 10%, btw), that still represents an increase in government spending equal to 4% of GDP. That is a 20% across the board wage levy, or a 40% across the board corporate tax, or a 10% VAT. There's no getting around how huge of an increase in Federal spending (and so Federal power) that is -- and we need to remember that currently we're giving those reins to John Boehner. But beyond the policy skepticism (I'd much prefer the states do this because of the Boehner issue), the political problem here is a killer. We are advocating a tax (or deficit) increase equal to 4% of the GDP to a population that is less trusting of government than at any point in living memory. It would be a disaster to run on this nationally.

3a. Yes, I know that the tax increase is -- if things go well -- balanced by lower private insurance spending. But lots of people don't see their private insurance spending now (maybe their employer contributes most or all of their premiums) whereas they will see a payroll levy every two weeks. Furthermore, to understand the resistance to this, imagine that your sketchy uncle can get DVDs cheaper than you can at Best Buy. Does that mean you want to hand him your entire DVD budget and trust he'll do it?

4. Even here on the left we have people who are enraged that the government subpoenaed records of who called whom when one of the participants was a foreigner. Not recording what they said, mind you, just keeping the dots in case they want to connect them later. These are business records belonging to the phone company, but people still felt violated and outraged. And now we're talking about the Federal Government maintaining records of all medical procedures whatsoever? That's going to go over like a lead balloon. And I guarantee you a Republican President would abuse it.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Before Obamacare, health care costs were the most frequent reason people filed for bankruptcy and, merrily Sep 2015 #1
Same situation applies after Obamacare. Most people remain unaware because most people-- eridani Sep 2015 #2
While younger, or ever? merrily Sep 2015 #3
The percentages are for each demographic group eridani Sep 2015 #24
Thank you. merrily Sep 2015 #26
I don't know if it is a state thing, but that is absolutely not true treestar Sep 2015 #18
There are plenty of people who move from a full cost they can't afford to-- eridani Sep 2015 #27
But we have made Big Pharma very happy dougolat Sep 2015 #4
I can answer that last question... Fairgo Sep 2015 #5
"Its not really insurance if you can't afford to use it." LittleGirl Sep 2015 #6
My best wishes Fairgo Sep 2015 #9
Thank you. eom LittleGirl Sep 2015 #10
"If you make a claim, they raise your rates or cancel you all together" progree Sep 2015 #13
thanks for the well wishes LittleGirl Sep 2015 #16
There is a lot of preventive treestar Sep 2015 #19
Almost $4000 for the whole family. Ilsa Sep 2015 #30
Not true. 5% of the people 60-70 years old still account for half the costs of that group eridani Sep 2015 #25
We need single payer. Enthusiast Sep 2015 #7
Medicare also has premiums and deductibles, both pretty high Recursion Sep 2015 #29
Pretty high? Not compared to private insurance! I qualified for Medicare this year, and Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2015 #38
Why everyone can't have this. Recursion Sep 2015 #40
A lot of young people are just paying the fine. yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #51
Obama was concerned about the insurance industry running out of control nationalize the fed Sep 2015 #8
Great post. Unknown Beatle Sep 2015 #12
Max Baucus One_Life_To_Give Sep 2015 #31
DUers were indignant when Dick Cheney met in secret with energy industry types Lydia Leftcoast Sep 2015 #39
Hillary will probably be put in the WH in 2017 to insure that Heritage Ed and Heritage Security Doctor_J Sep 2015 #22
Medicare for all, including dental, optical, hearing aids and mental health services. Scuba Sep 2015 #11
Afford it? ... But... but ... who will think of the corporate executives who Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #21
Health Equity Fairgo Sep 2015 #43
My deductibles AND co-pays went up. a la izquierda Sep 2015 #14
yep Doctor_J Sep 2015 #15
Even with insurance, the true cost of care is a crapshoot Thav Sep 2015 #17
my GF's deductable is so high, it's like not having healthcare at all. Javaman Sep 2015 #20
My sympathies, I'm with you. Kilgore Sep 2015 #33
Here's another Heritage Care story - truly American exceptionalism. Doctor_J Sep 2015 #23
I am on Medicare. SheilaT Sep 2015 #28
Present system has not benefited us at all Kilgore Sep 2015 #32
it's the bronze level that's the killer. Javaman Sep 2015 #34
Gold premieums were just silly. Kilgore Sep 2015 #35
while ACA is a baby step in the right direction... Javaman Sep 2015 #36
It's a step in the wrong direction. Doctor_J Sep 2015 #42
Very good point. Javaman Sep 2015 #44
Single payer still has premiums and deductibles Recursion Sep 2015 #41
Single payer HR 676 has no deductibles, and the premiums are vastly cheaper n/t eridani Sep 2015 #45
And has no dedicated revenue stream Recursion Sep 2015 #47
It certainly does. The fund would be separate from general tax funds. eridani Sep 2015 #48
The fund is separate, only a small portion of its levies are Recursion Sep 2015 #49
10% beats the shit out of the 17% we are currently paying to NOT cover everyone n/t eridani Sep 2015 #50
Well hell I can think of dozens of ideas that are better than our current system Recursion Sep 2015 #52
A $200/month tax beats an $800/month premium any old day. eridani Sep 2015 #53
Hillary has a plan to combat high out of pocket costs, fwiw... ProgressiveCheese Sep 2015 #37
Meaning she'll ask profit takers to be nicer n/t eridani Sep 2015 #46
I refuse to believe wages have gone up 10% KentuckyWoman Sep 2015 #54
I read that and thought, what complete bullshit Skittles Sep 2015 #60
At least this helps us get to single payer Texas Blues Sep 2015 #55
This must happen on a state by state basis. ACA lets us start in 2017 n/t eridani Sep 2015 #59
It really their wages. nt kelliekat44 Sep 2015 #56
Interesting how Jim Messina's strongly connected to this, espec. given his new allegiance suffragette Sep 2015 #57
I did not have a surgery because the out of pocket expenses were out of this world. Zorra Sep 2015 #58
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