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In reply to the discussion: The Pope's comments on family and marriage seem very much open to interpretation-WRONG [View all]pnwmom
(108,977 posts)63. Good grief. "Assertion without fact." We are talking about religion, religious beliefs,
and religious figures, and you want me to provide evidence? I and millions of others FEEL strongly, based on the totality of words and actions we've experienced from this Pope, that he's far less judgmental than other Popes we've known. That's a subjective judgment, as many are.
But I can also point you to some "evidence" -- but I don't expect you to accept it anymore than you would someone else's religious beliefs.
His statement "Who am I to judge," (an almost unheard of statement by a Pope) in combination with his urging Bishops to be pastoral and less doctrinal.
The message to the Bishops in particular is very different than anything I've seen another Pope say.
For instance, he says instead of lecturing, they should be dialoguing.
Dialogue is our method, not as a shrewd strategy but out of fidelity to the One who never wearies of visiting the marketplace, even at the eleventh hour, to propose his offer of love (Mt 20:1-16).
The path ahead, then, is dialogue among yourselves, dialogue in your presbyterates, dialogue with lay persons, dialogue with families, dialogue with society. I cannot ever tire of encouraging you to dialogue fearlessly. The richer the heritage which you are called to share with parrhesia, the more eloquent should be the humility with which you should offer it. Do not be afraid to set out on that exodus which is necessary for all authentic dialogue. Otherwise, we fail to understand the thinking of others, or to realize deep down that the brother or sister we wish to reach and redeem, with the power and the closeness of love, counts more than their positions, distant as they may be from what we hold as true and certain. Harsh and divisive language does not befit the tongue of a pastor, it has no place in his heart; although it may momentarily seem to win the day, only the enduring allure of goodness and love remains truly convincing.
The path ahead, then, is dialogue among yourselves, dialogue in your presbyterates, dialogue with lay persons, dialogue with families, dialogue with society. I cannot ever tire of encouraging you to dialogue fearlessly. The richer the heritage which you are called to share with parrhesia, the more eloquent should be the humility with which you should offer it. Do not be afraid to set out on that exodus which is necessary for all authentic dialogue. Otherwise, we fail to understand the thinking of others, or to realize deep down that the brother or sister we wish to reach and redeem, with the power and the closeness of love, counts more than their positions, distant as they may be from what we hold as true and certain. Harsh and divisive language does not befit the tongue of a pastor, it has no place in his heart; although it may momentarily seem to win the day, only the enduring allure of goodness and love remains truly convincing.
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The Pope's comments on family and marriage seem very much open to interpretation-WRONG [View all]
Stinky The Clown
Sep 2015
OP
The family is threatened but you claim this is neutral? Do you know what the World Meeting of
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#1
There's no evidence that he views anything but families headed by the "complemenatary sexes" as...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#66
Christians, in general, base their life on a Jesus/God of their Bible, through a selective reading..
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#75
There are other morally objectional things Jesus says or does, but what I'm really puzzled by...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#89
How can any teo people wishing to maaDivorce and child abuse and neglect are greater threatd surely.
JDPriestly
Sep 2015
#8
And yet he also rants against marriage equality endlessly, not about divorce nor cohabitation
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#11
That doesn't really make it better, and I'm glad that mayor is there to challenge the Pope...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#15
No its not threatened, and those "causes" are people's choices, do you want to remove said choices?
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#12
The point being that if they can improve or don't improve family relationships is no one's business.
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#22
No they didn't, there was no Catholic Church at that time, but again, that's irrelevent...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#42
Sure they have the right to free speech, but they do not have the right to impose their...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#49
So how do you condone the teachings in places that are not America and rich?
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#53
Oh, stop. That has zero impact on them, so it doesn't matter that Africans are dying!!
PeaceNikki
Sep 2015
#61
It always cracks me up when people use this as a response to archaic misogynistic doctrine
PeaceNikki
Sep 2015
#59
Only because their Church is politically weak enough here to not be able to restrict...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#68
Its called "dog whistle politics", similar to Reagan talking about "Cadillac driving welfare queens"
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#6
Where is the evidence that this Pope has evolved on this issue? Has he pulled a George Wallace...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#44
That's an assertion without fact, do you have evidence that he's far less judgemental? n/t
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#60
Good grief. "Assertion without fact." We are talking about religion, religious beliefs,
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#63
His out of context quote about celibate, homosexual priests is NOT relevent...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#64
Not really, in fact, the Catechism, for all its bigoted language, recognizes that being...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#67
I'd also like to point out that I first offered an information heavy response which you ignored
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#58
I think, as heterosexuals, it's all too easy for us to minimize the problematic aspects
nomorenomore08
Sep 2015
#86
Is that supposed to mean something, did the Vatican state that they demoted him because of...
Humanist_Activist
Sep 2015
#50
That story is a year old and not even the truth. I challenge you to offer proof that that man was
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#54
Agreed, you weren't vilifying me. In fact, I'm sorry that I implied you were.
Stinky The Clown
Sep 2015
#26
His words as Cardinal were very clear and very ugly. To balance that requires very clear support.
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#55
If the Pope actually wants to dial back on the culture war stuff that is good.
bklyncowgirl
Sep 2015
#21
Your quote is from before he was Pope. How do you know his views haven't evolved
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#29
I could post the entire 'who am I to judge' speech again. It's not pro gay, it's a rant against 'the
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#56
Also, Catholic.com is a lay-run, RW site. Try NCRonline.org for a different point of view.
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#33
Here's the pope's own media organisation, quoting him after he became pope:
muriel_volestrangler
Sep 2015
#74
He's worried that the "culture of the temporary" has led many people to give up on marriage
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#76
Pope warns same-sex marriage 'threatens the family' and 'disfigures God's plan for creation'
muriel_volestrangler
Sep 2015
#79
So these traditions of the slow ship are like the 'heritage' of the Confederate Flag?
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#81
The kind of post you're responding to is why I'm slowly weaning myself off message boards.
AngryOldDem
Sep 2015
#72
Some reading on the World Meeting of Families mentioned by Francis in the OP:
Bluenorthwest
Sep 2015
#57