General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

82. You keep pretending the exception makes the rule

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 10:00 AM

Sep 2015

The great part about ACA is regardless of whether you care or not for people who lost everything to health care bills prior to ACA, people still derive benefit from theses policies. Millions of people didn't buy health insurance prior to ACA, not because they couldn't afford it, but actually because the policies they could afford were no-shit worthless. So not only do such policies provide a benefit to those who buy them, they provide a net benefit to society which was effectively insuring them all along with or without insurance. That's why ACA has tremendous value even with its obvious flaws.

There is no question that some people are still left out in the cold who need to be covered, but the idea that these policies are of no benefit to anyone is very far afield from reality. So you are either trying to contradict me on that point and falling quite short, or you are trying to contradict a point I never made and am in complete agreement.

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57% of those visiting exchange websites could not find a plan they could afford. [View all] eridani Sep 2015 OP

This was a completely predictable outcome of allowing the health care companies to extract GoneFishin Sep 2015 #1

Every weasel tactic must become a thing of history. Enthusiast Sep 2015 #4

That is why they were concern one. raouldukelives Sep 2015 #17

This was completely predicted as well. hughee99 Sep 2015 #19

How timely. I just found out my barely "affordable health care" just went up 300%. GoneFishin Sep 2015 #78

A universal single payer system with no insurance industry influence is the only answer. Enthusiast Sep 2015 #2

It's actually 29.6% that couldn't find a plan they could afford (57% of 52%) Angleae Sep 2015 #3

Good point but... striegl Sep 2015 #11

Not only that, it's asking the opinion of someone as to whether or not they can afford it Major Nikon Sep 2015 #23

Excellent points, all. Opinions are extremely subjective. I'm a little bemused Hortensis Sep 2015 #37

Good catch. pnwmom Sep 2015 #44

Okay. I am not up on how to work with these statistics but jwirr Sep 2015 #103

They fudged the numbers striegl Sep 2015 #123

A plan you can barely afford with a $5,000 deductible is no plan at all. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #5

I disagree Major Nikon Sep 2015 #20

A $5000 deductable is enough to drive some families into bankruptcy, alas Orrex Sep 2015 #25

I can't imagine that being too many Major Nikon Sep 2015 #32

$5000 could certainly do that Orrex Sep 2015 #33

Probably harder than you think Major Nikon Sep 2015 #36

That $5000 deductible is often chosen by people of limited means Hortensis Sep 2015 #39

It's also chosen by healthy people who generally don't go to the doctor Major Nikon Sep 2015 #46

Yes, and then many get sick and still don't go to the doctor. NO to primary purpose. Hortensis Sep 2015 #53

The definition of the word "insurance" hasn't changed Major Nikon Sep 2015 #65

No, but the reality of it has changed. We live in the Medical Age now. Hortensis Sep 2015 #69

Bully for them. Orrex Sep 2015 #58

I'm not pretending anything Major Nikon Sep 2015 #71

Those examples are not relevant. Orrex Sep 2015 #80

Neither is pointing out some may not be able to personally benefit Major Nikon Sep 2015 #92

We're simply arguing different points Orrex Sep 2015 #102

If you had no interest in discussing it, why did you reply to post 20? Major Nikon Sep 2015 #104

Perhaps you should read reply #25, in which I answered that question Orrex Sep 2015 #108

$41/mo is laughable when you have $2 in your pocket on payday morning-if that much. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #41

Forgive me, but I've walked this road Orrex Sep 2015 #52

You are arguing against something I didn't claim Major Nikon Sep 2015 #74

A policy that one cannot use is a worthless policy Orrex Sep 2015 #75

A policy that one can potentially use is not a worthless policy Major Nikon Sep 2015 #77

I disagree Orrex Sep 2015 #81

You keep pretending the exception makes the rule Major Nikon Sep 2015 #82

No, that's not what I'm doing. Orrex Sep 2015 #89

People are buying them because rusty fender Sep 2015 #97

Nonsense Major Nikon Sep 2015 #101

What about those with chronic conditions, that 5,000 dollar deductible renews annually... Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #118

There's all sorts of "what about"s when there is no right to basic healthcare Major Nikon Sep 2015 #119

I have friends who are barely making enough to get by. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #38

Those people probably wouldn't buy the policy in the first place Major Nikon Sep 2015 #49

Not just the GOP, It wasn't an R that said single payer was off the table. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #50

Single payer was off the table because of the GOP was unified against it Major Nikon Sep 2015 #56

Then why cave before negotiations even start. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #62

Because there is no negotiating with the GOP Major Nikon Sep 2015 #66

This is nonsense tkmorris Sep 2015 #67

It would have been blocked with or without them Major Nikon Sep 2015 #72

Use the Kaiser calculator lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #88

Given the values for a friend's age and income here in TX it's $53/mo hobbit709 Sep 2015 #93

a) it's not the ACA's fault that Texas didn't expand medicaid. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #98

"The true purpose of any form of insurance is to" make money for the insurance company. FIXED! WinkyDink Sep 2015 #45

Pretty much all private enterprises are in the business of making money Major Nikon Sep 2015 #48

Absolutely! And by denying as much care as they can get away with, to make their profit! canoeist52 Sep 2015 #64

"No plan at all" leaves you bankrupt. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #87

To some people $500 is disastrous. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #91

Life threatening illness is disastrous. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #94

and the ACA is not HEALTHCARE. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #95

Prior to ACA, "ruination" meant people dying because they lacked access to health care. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #100

$5000 is disastrous for a lot of people. ACA has reduced medical bankruptcy-- eridani Sep 2015 #134

Well the thing is this... bernmobile2016 Sep 2015 #137

The deductibles are not like that treestar Sep 2015 #141

And prescriptions, etc. are just copay too? hobbit709 Sep 2015 #144

Yes, $10. treestar Sep 2015 #145

don't bet on it here in TX. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #146

Yes, you are right about the red states not cooperating treestar Sep 2015 #147

We need it and we are going to get it and my hat is on its way! lonestarnot Sep 2015 #6

ACA bad. Got it. leftofcool Sep 2015 #7

no, not bad, just certainly not the best. and in some ways, greately flawed.nt Javaman Sep 2015 #8

The actual number is around 30% not 57% blackspade Sep 2015 #9

Is this place infiltrated with right wing crystal dawn Sep 2015 #10

It is not a right-talking point to criticize the badly flawed ACA alarimer Sep 2015 #31

so far crystal dawn Sep 2015 #83

"Nothing but an insurance company giveaway" This is a zombie lie that just won't die. geek tragedy Sep 2015 #114

Umm...the ACA is a Republican program Hydra Sep 2015 #73

it's completely dishonest to call it a Republican program. geek tragedy Sep 2015 #112

So it wasn't the Romneycare/Gingrich/Heritage/Nixon plan? Hydra Sep 2015 #125

No. It was not the Heritage Plan. geek tragedy Sep 2015 #126

Disputing the word of the President? Hydra Sep 2015 #128

Subsidies and Medicaid expansion and regulations geek tragedy Sep 2015 #130

Medicare part E Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #12

Medicare with the supplemental stuff, still isn't very cheap. LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #14

Sometimes called "premium-free Part A Omaha Steve Sep 2015 #15

Oh, I don't pay for the Part A and my B is 104, but when you tack on the LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #28

That's almost $900 / month for a $1000 deductible and 20% copays for everything Recursion Sep 2015 #132

This is why we needed the public option. Vinca Sep 2015 #13

"57% - Could not find a plan you could afford " Keep-Left Sep 2015 #16

Got proof of that? xmas74 Sep 2015 #22

that's a right wing talking point Doctor_J Sep 2015 #35

I recognized it immediately. xmas74 Sep 2015 #99

But you just gave the reason for what he is talking about. jwirr Sep 2015 #105

It doesn't say. xmas74 Sep 2015 #109

On that I totally agree with you. I have been classified as jwirr Sep 2015 #116

That doesn't matter. xmas74 Sep 2015 #117

Im sure there are a lot that can not afford it Keep-Left Sep 2015 #139

If you live in an non expansion state xmas74 Sep 2015 #142

I bet those fuckers have refrigerators too tkmorris Sep 2015 #70

This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Sep 2015 #85

Your subject line doesn't match what you posted. striegl Sep 2015 #18

Math is your friend. 57% of 52% is 29.64%, not 57%. n/t Ms. Toad Sep 2015 #21

What happens when, all at once a very few, sign up for a Plan for the coming year? DhhD Sep 2015 #24

Unusual number of brand-new DU members in this thread. Orrex Sep 2015 #26

I'm hearing this from a few friends, and they Ilsa Sep 2015 #27

Medicare for all, including dental, optical, hearing aids and mental health services. Scuba Sep 2015 #29

Quibble over the exact % and ignore the point bread_and_roses Sep 2015 #30

The number is off by a half. That's not a quibble. 3/4 of visitors who fail to enroll pnwmom Sep 2015 #42

Missing the point entirely (n/t) bread_and_roses Sep 2015 #90

^^This.^^ historylovr Sep 2015 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #113

+1 leftstreet Sep 2015 #121

I want to see their tax returns!!!$@!@11!1 Doctor_J Sep 2015 #34

No, the real number is about a FOURTH. The 57% is based on the 52% who did NOT enroll. pnwmom Sep 2015 #40

Even 26% is way too high of a number, no matter how much one wants to quibble. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #47

And that 1/4 number is pretty close to the percentage of folks living in states that did not expand stevenleser Sep 2015 #51

Bottom line. Insurance is NOT healthcare. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #55

Bottom line, slogans are not policies or policy suggestions. nt stevenleser Sep 2015 #57

Exactly right! City Lights Sep 2015 #59

excellent point pnwmom Sep 2015 #110

When you're off by half, it's not a quibble. pnwmom Sep 2015 #54

Better than one in five is NOT acceptable-period. hobbit709 Sep 2015 #61

Except you haven't presented any real evidence that 1 in 5 can't mythology Sep 2015 #76

It's not the fault of Obamacare that people in states without expanded Medicaid pnwmom Sep 2015 #111

I just received notification from BCBS that the plan I purchased in March of 2014 City Lights Sep 2015 #43

What % of ACA attack OPs get the math right?? JoePhilly Sep 2015 #60

Learn math. Thanks. tabasco Sep 2015 #63

But it's 100% of 21% Orrex Sep 2015 #138

i went on the site a number of times and did not enroll dembotoz Sep 2015 #68

Isn't this OP misleading? brush Sep 2015 #79

Couple things ProgressiveCheese Sep 2015 #84

Health care is 17% of GDP. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #86

Like a lot of the complaints about COBRA. tammywammy Sep 2015 #96

That's on this next W2, though, isn't it? (nt) Recursion Sep 2015 #133

Obamacare helped some, but not nearly enough. And private insurers will render Obamacare Zorra Sep 2015 #107

Due to ACA, health care inflation (0.55%) is slower than it has been in 50 years. lumberjack_jeff Sep 2015 #115

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Sep 2015 #120

Anyone else recently get slammed with a several hundred % premium increase under ACA? GoneFishin Sep 2015 #122

Health Care Should Not Be For Profit. colsohlibgal Sep 2015 #124

Every exchange has not-for-profit insurance providers available (nt) Recursion Sep 2015 #131

something about a ablamj Sep 2015 #127

That's 57% of 52%, or about 28% jfern Sep 2015 #129

The one thing I sure as hell don't want to hear from any of you.... bernmobile2016 Sep 2015 #135

Affordability? LOL! Try this example: bernmobile2016 Sep 2015 #136

IN their seventies and smoke? xmas74 Sep 2015 #143

Yeah smoking aint good bernmobile2016 Sep 2015 #148

Bullshit treestar Sep 2015 #140