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In reply to the discussion: Did an Archbishop from Kentucky troll the Pope? [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)4. Amazing how fast all that good went down the drain.
Pope Francis addressed Congress and got matters of war and peace, capital and income inequality, and global warming and protecting the planet on the agenda. Suddenly, that's forgotten. I can't believe the Pope would sacrifice all that to meet with a person who has come to symbolize official bigotry.
Something else in the story rings hollow: The reporter on the plane echoed the language used by the Archbishop:
Terry Moran, ABC News: Holy Father, thank you, thank you very much and thank you to the Vatican staff as well. Holy Father, you visited the Little Sisters of the Poor and we were told that you wanted to show your support for them and their case in the courts. And, Holy Father, do you also support those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples? Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?
Pope Francis: I cant have in mind all cases that can exist about conscientious objection. But, yes, I can say conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be a conscientious objector, he denies a right. Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right, a human right. Otherwise we would end up in a situation where we select what is a right, saying 'this right that has merit, this one does not.' It (conscientious objection) is a human right. It always moved me when I read, and I read it many times, when I read the Chancon Roland, when the people were all in line and before them was the baptismal font the baptismal font or the sword. And, they had to choose. They werent permitted conscientious objection. It is a right and if we want to make peace we have to respect all rights.
(Editors note: Hes referring to provencal poem: Song of Roland in which Crusaders forced Muslims to choose between being baptized or being killed by the sword. The Pope says they were not allowed to choose conscientious objection)
Terry Moran, ABC News: Would that include government officials as well?
Pope Francis: It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right.
SOURCE: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-transcript-of-pope-francis-inflight-interview-from-philadelphia-to-rome-60499/
What the lawyer Staver stated:
Staver also pointed out that the pope mentioned freedom of conscience during his speech to Congress, although even the most direct reference to that subject was opaque: A delicate balance is required to combat violence perpetrated in the name of a religion, an ideology or an economic system, while also safeguarding religious freedom, intellectual freedom, and individual freedoms, the pope said.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/
And what the Archbishop of Kentucky stated:
Joseph Kurtz, the archbishop of Louisville, Kentucky, and the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, wouldnt comment on the meeting itself and how it came about, noting that he stayed about a mile away from the nunciature where Pope Francis stayed during his visit to D.C. But I can comment on the fact that in Kentucky, I had said that Im not a lawyer or a politician, but I had certainly hoped that room could be made for people of conscience, he said on Wednesday. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was the primary coordinator of the popes schedule during his visit to the United States.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/
Of course, ABC and Bill Casey have an interesting history, banking with the Vatican through BCCI and all that -- not that he would have been a conscientious objector to the profits in finance and off-the-books skullduggery.
The real echo: Money to gain Power; Power to protect Money.
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So? In his official speeches, he spoke out on the importance of universal insurance.
pnwmom
Sep 2015
#10
The difference in focus makes a huge difference to Catholics in the pews, if not to you.
pnwmom
Oct 2015
#24
I don't define right-wing the same way you do. If you take some issues seriously
pnwmom
Oct 2015
#26
Going from conscientious objection into actively practicing that objection is a thin line.
icymist
Sep 2015
#9
Yeah. He came all the way to the USA to talk to Fox News' favorite former Democrat.
Octafish
Oct 2015
#14
Charles Pierce nailed it: The Vatican confirms Pope Francis was “ratf*cked” into meeting Kim Davis
Octafish
Oct 2015
#30
Great questions, yours. I am a Roman Catholic with fundamentalist Buddhist and Sufi elements.
Octafish
Oct 2015
#21
When we approach our individual problems with empathy, we move the world in that direction.
Octafish
Oct 2015
#29
Learn to love yourself first, then love for the world is automatic. Love is the answer, O!
Dont call me Shirley
Oct 2015
#32