Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. Amazing how fast all that good went down the drain.
Wed Sep 30, 2015, 06:43 PM
Sep 2015

Pope Francis addressed Congress and got matters of war and peace, capital and income inequality, and global warming and protecting the planet on the agenda. Suddenly, that's forgotten. I can't believe the Pope would sacrifice all that to meet with a person who has come to symbolize official bigotry.

Something else in the story rings hollow: The reporter on the plane echoed the language used by the Archbishop:



Terry Moran, ABC News: Holy Father, thank you, thank you very much and thank you to the Vatican staff as well. Holy Father, you visited the Little Sisters of the Poor and we were told that you wanted to show your support for them and their case in the courts. And, Holy Father, do you also support those individuals, including government officials, who say they cannot in good conscience, their own personal conscience, abide by some laws or discharge their duties as government officials, for example in issuing marriage licenses to same sex couples? Do you support those kinds of claims of religious liberty?

Pope Francis: I can’t have in mind all cases that can exist about conscientious objection. But, yes, I can say conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right. It is a right. And if a person does not allow others to be a conscientious objector, he denies a right. Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right, a human right. Otherwise we would end up in a situation where we select what is a right, saying 'this right that has merit, this one does not.' It (conscientious objection) is a human right. It always moved me when I read, and I read it many times, when I read the Chancon Roland, when the people were all in line and before them was the baptismal font – the baptismal font or the sword. And, they had to choose. They weren’t permitted conscientious objection. It is a right and if we want to make peace we have to respect all rights.

(Editor’s note: He’s referring to provencal poem: Song of Roland in which Crusaders forced Muslims to choose between being baptized or being killed by the sword. The Pope says they were not allowed to choose conscientious objection)

Terry Moran, ABC News: Would that include government officials as well?

Pope Francis: It is a human right and if a government official is a human person, he has that right. It is a human right.

SOURCE: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-transcript-of-pope-francis-inflight-interview-from-philadelphia-to-rome-60499/



What the lawyer Staver stated:

Staver also pointed out that the pope mentioned freedom of conscience during his speech to Congress, although even the most direct reference to that subject was opaque: “A delicate balance is required to combat violence perpetrated in the name of a religion, an ideology or an economic system, while also safeguarding religious freedom, intellectual freedom, and individual freedoms,” the pope said.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/


And what the Archbishop of Kentucky stated:

Joseph Kurtz, the archbishop of Louisville, Kentucky, and the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, wouldn’t comment on the meeting itself and how it came about, noting that he stayed about a mile away from the nunciature where Pope Francis stayed during his visit to D.C. But “I can comment on the fact that in Kentucky, I had said that I’m not a lawyer or a politician, but I had certainly hoped that room could be made for people of conscience,” he said on Wednesday. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops was the primary coordinator of the pope’s schedule during his visit to the United States.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/pope-francis-allegedly-met-with-kim-davis-what-does-it-mean/408166/


Of course, ABC and Bill Casey have an interesting history, banking with the Vatican through BCCI and all that -- not that he would have been a conscientious objector to the profits in finance and off-the-books skullduggery.

The real echo: Money to gain Power; Power to protect Money.
Thanks for the link to that article. Informative. nt el_bryanto Sep 2015 #1
.WaPo says the lawyer didn't see anybody meet the Pope. Octafish Sep 2015 #3
Interesting...knr joeybee12 Sep 2015 #2
Amazing how fast all that good went down the drain. Octafish Sep 2015 #4
He also met with a group of nuns who are fighting Obamacare on joeybee12 Sep 2015 #5
Thanks for the kind reminder. Octafish Sep 2015 #7
So? In his official speeches, he spoke out on the importance of universal insurance. pnwmom Sep 2015 #10
"The Bishops, as a group, are much more rightwing than he is." trotsky Oct 2015 #19
The Bishops were appointed by John Paul or Benedict. pnwmom Oct 2015 #22
OK, but you didn't answer my question. trotsky Oct 2015 #23
The difference in focus makes a huge difference to Catholics in the pews, if not to you. pnwmom Oct 2015 #24
That is true, however that still doesn't answer my question. trotsky Oct 2015 #25
I don't define right-wing the same way you do. If you take some issues seriously pnwmom Oct 2015 #26
Your distinction on governors also fails. trotsky Oct 2015 #27
None so blind.... Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #6
Tell me about it. Octafish Sep 2015 #8
Going from conscientious objection into actively practicing that objection is a thin line. icymist Sep 2015 #9
That's what I hate about the Truth. Octafish Oct 2015 #11
But that's the essence of the PR campaign that defines his papacy. trotsky Oct 2015 #16
+1 Hong Kong Cavalier Oct 2015 #18
Spin, spin, spin...The Pope is a victim! Arugula Latte Oct 2015 #12
Yeah. He came all the way to the USA to talk to Fox News' favorite former Democrat. Octafish Oct 2015 #14
Great article. trotsky Oct 2015 #17
Charles Pierce nailed it: The Vatican confirms Pope Francis was “ratf*cked” into meeting Kim Davis Octafish Oct 2015 #30
Full damage control mode. trotsky Oct 2015 #31
Charlie Pierce has some interesting stuff on this: mulsh Oct 2015 #13
Faith-Based Goldbricking Octafish Oct 2015 #15
Why doesn't Kim Davis object to the Pope? hamsterjill Oct 2015 #20
Great questions, yours. I am a Roman Catholic with fundamentalist Buddhist and Sufi elements. Octafish Oct 2015 #21
Thank you. I agree completely. It is LOVE that matters. hamsterjill Oct 2015 #28
When we approach our individual problems with empathy, we move the world in that direction. Octafish Oct 2015 #29
Learn to love yourself first, then love for the world is automatic. Love is the answer, O! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #32
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Did an Archbishop from Ke...»Reply #4