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Glassunion

(10,201 posts)

17. None of the enumerated rights are in effect unless you have life.

Reply to hack89 (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:48 PM

Oct 2015

Life, would be the pinnacle of that pyramid.

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I have a right [View all] madokie Oct 2015 OP

K & R ! Lars39 Oct 2015 #1

Please Congress, it's your job to REGULATE business, the gun manufacturers need some regulating. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #2

Thank Boehner malaise Oct 2015 #3

Unfortunately, your right to life SheilaT Oct 2015 #4

The campus Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #5

Please madokie Oct 2015 #6

I'm not an apologist Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #8

I think Australia's firearms laws would be a great model. Old Crow Oct 2015 #16

I disagree TeddyR Oct 2015 #51

Nope, Australia is definitely not the U.S. ... Old Crow Oct 2015 #52

No we could interpret the 2Amend correctly Generic Other Oct 2015 #71

Interesting thoughts. Old Crow Oct 2015 #72

I realize this is an important right to many Generic Other Oct 2015 #74

I understand completely. Old Crow Oct 2015 #76

Thanks for listening to me vent tonight Generic Other Oct 2015 #81

My pleasure. It was a worthy vent. Old Crow Oct 2015 #82

I teach at a CC. This kind of shit is scary. But yes, this is why it's so important to get a MillennialDem Oct 2015 #110

I really understand how you feel. redstatebluegirl Oct 2015 #129

I used to think that until someone pointed out that "People" is plural. ieoeja Oct 2015 #144

Really interesting points. Old Crow Oct 2015 #205

Correct me if I'm wrong here but BarackTheVote Oct 2015 #280

The word militia seems to be forgotten in every discussion about guns. A Simple Game Oct 2015 #99

"Keep" them in an armory. Bohunk68 Oct 2015 #107

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #133

Nor do we Brainstormy Oct 2015 #131

Neither does America. randys1 Oct 2015 #276

Australia's level of gun crime was always much lower than the USA, branford Oct 2015 #120

I agree with some of what you're saying. Old Crow Oct 2015 #122

However, Australia's overall suicide rate is still comparable branford Oct 2015 #130

I can't agree. Old Crow Oct 2015 #141

Yeah, we could always go with the mental health issue passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #18

But-- Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #24

the kid had a pistol--not a Rambo gun passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #32

Thought I explained Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #34

I guess I'll wait for the jury to come in on that. passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #35

I don't know enough about guns Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #38

How did I know you were going to come back with a rebuttal? passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #41

What would help is to reduce the massive numbers of guns available in the USofA. rhett o rick Oct 2015 #199

Actually there was an armed student interviewed by KATU that was on scene at the time... cascadiance Oct 2015 #11

Three pistols and 1 handgun? GGJohn Oct 2015 #47

Miss type on my part. Should have written "long gun"... cascadiance Oct 2015 #49

No problem, kinda figured that's what you meant. GGJohn Oct 2015 #50

The shooter Old Codger Oct 2015 #42

My bad Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #44

Each Oregon university can set its own policy and they prohibit concealed carry. aikoaiko Oct 2015 #58

Wrong malaise Oct 2015 #97

Oregon banned gun free on campus and the guy was 26 bigbrother05 Oct 2015 #137

It appears that the CCH student was entirely reasonable and responsible. branford Oct 2015 #139

Him individually, or to society as a whole? mythology Oct 2015 #210

Ban guns...period. Hepburn Oct 2015 #138

That will never happen n/t Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #143

That which fails to hold legal gun owners accountable Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #222

Some college campuses, including the Oregon one in the last shooting, are not gun-free zones. haele Oct 2015 #290

We hold these truths to be self evident... n2doc Oct 2015 #7

The Constitution is law. The Declaration of Independence is not. hack89 Oct 2015 #9

The declaration is what we were founded on n2doc Oct 2015 #12

Enumerated rights are at the top of the legal pyramid hack89 Oct 2015 #14

None of the enumerated rights are in effect unless you have life. Glassunion Oct 2015 #17

Not in the U.S. legal system hack89 Oct 2015 #20

So the courts do not recognize inalienable rights? Glassunion Oct 2015 #26

Those are specific crimes codified in law hack89 Oct 2015 #33

It is codified in law because it is a basic natural right. Glassunion Oct 2015 #39

Ok. Show me some case law and I am with you. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #40

Self-defense is a basic, natural right. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #92

Indeed. I agree. Glassunion Oct 2015 #109

But many of the policies being advocated would deny people their right to self-defense Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #111

Me personally, I'm not advocating for such things that would deny the right. Glassunion Oct 2015 #123

That's an argument to make it easier, quicker and more efficient to buy cold medication branford Oct 2015 #136

Except life is an enumerated right in the CONSTITUTION, not just the declaration MillennialDem Oct 2015 #112

So perhaps we should make maniacs executing people a serious crime? hack89 Oct 2015 #113

Don't see why the snark. It's an enumerated right. Game over for that argument. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #114

The 14A limits the power of the state and protects your right not to be summarily executed hack89 Oct 2015 #118

I don't get how that's NOT enumerated then. The 2nd amendment doesn't say a private citizen can't MillennialDem Oct 2015 #119

Ok. So accepting that it is an enumerate right hack89 Oct 2015 #121

I'm for ultimately banning, but realize it would take a constitutional amendment - but yes in MillennialDem Oct 2015 #124

The PLCAA was in response to an attempt at a backdoor gun ban. hack89 Oct 2015 #132

I'm well aware of what it is, and I support repealing it. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #134

So you can sue gun manufacturers out of existence? hack89 Oct 2015 #140

Technically, Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #10

As I said to the gun bumper above, I could care less n/t n2doc Oct 2015 #13

If you 'could care less', doesn't that mean you still care a little? Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #19

Why the insult? GGJohn Oct 2015 #48

And understanding of basic civics is not the strong suit for many here. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #15

I agree with much of what you're stating. Old Crow Oct 2015 #23

You are correct that it isn't unamendable TeddyR Oct 2015 #203

I agree that it would be a tremendous task, certainly. Old Crow Oct 2015 #204

And basic civility is also beyond many here. oneshooter Oct 2015 #219

List all of the rights in the constitution. Glassunion Oct 2015 #22

Picking nits a bit... Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #31

Our enumerated rights are limited and subject to interpretation ... etherealtruth Oct 2015 #29

If Life is that imprtant lancer78 Oct 2015 #77

by that logic lancer78 Oct 2015 #271

We all have a right to replace this neutered Congress with SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #21

YES! We've been held hostage LiberalElite Oct 2015 #25

Yes we have madokie Oct 2015 #27

Aren't hostage situations resolved by people who make a profession of bearing arms? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #93

The gun nuts hold the right to kill above all rights liberal N proud Oct 2015 #28

As it stands today that is correct madokie Oct 2015 #30

If there actually were Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #36

Is that any different than the meme that if everyone had a gun we would be safer? liberal N proud Oct 2015 #94

No one says that except gun grabbers jousting straw men. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #100

Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #37

Ohhhh MyNameGoesHere Oct 2015 #45

Bye. hatrack Oct 2015 #54

"They're coming for my guns" is a reicht wing argument. STOP making it. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #62

Erm... Might want to look around the forum. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #68

What you are arguing is a right to Security, not life. NutmegYankee Oct 2015 #43

+1 ShrimpPoboy Oct 2015 #176

K&R..... daleanime Oct 2015 #46

My take on the 2nd Amendment HassleCat Oct 2015 #53

Title 10 USC, Section 311 Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #60

I see that one cited often HassleCat Oct 2015 #73

"And I forget why you're no longer a militia member after age 45" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #101

Maybe you're not feeling me HassleCat Oct 2015 #147

+1,000,000 SoapBox Oct 2015 #55

Another K&R Cleita Oct 2015 #56

I have read the whole thread and I agree that we need to do jwirr Oct 2015 #57

you are so right on this shanti Oct 2015 #190

And add the hate and greed propaganda that is everywhere jwirr Oct 2015 #191

"Freedom From Fear" was one of FDR's four.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #59

You're using a series of posters that were used to sell war bonds to argue *against* guns? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #95

The goal is to hang the guns up in times of peace..... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #165

Is this planet Earth you're referring to? Because if it is what you describe has never occurred. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #167

Sure it has. The old west used to take pride in having a gun free town with law and order. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #169

DC and Chicago were instructed that such things were unconstitutional Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #171

Can't wait for the court to flip our way. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #172

Sure, if you want to abdicate your rights to 9 unelected people. Maybe while you're enjoying a 2A Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #173

And having a handgun prevents that. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #174

And being disarmed sheep that abdicate to the unelected prevents that. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #178

Uh huh. Sure. Go run out your door guns ablazing and see where that gets you. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #181

Specifically Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Kennedy and Alito so instructed. gcomeau Oct 2015 #175

The same court that upheld the ACA twice and recognized marriage equality. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #179

With a rather different makeup of Justices in majority and dissent. gcomeau Oct 2015 #183

What is stupid is thinking you can disregard whatever you don't like Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #185

And what decree would it be that I made genius? -eom gcomeau Oct 2015 #201

That rulings you disapprove of should be overturned Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #206

Are you fucking serious? gcomeau Oct 2015 #212

You seem excitable and easily given to emotion. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #213

What I am is readily aggravated by nonsense. gcomeau Oct 2015 #214

Grow-up and calm down. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #220

Says the kid who doesn't want his toys taken away... gcomeau Oct 2015 #223

That's "her" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #224

Uh-huh gcomeau Oct 2015 #225

You thought throwing your own silly ideas back at you was a tantrum? lol Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #226

Yes, because clearly I advocated revoking the 1A... gcomeau Oct 2015 #227

I never said you advocate revoking the 1A but you obviously Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #228

Ah, so it's just anyone thinking... gcomeau Oct 2015 #230

Ending slavery? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #231

Ah, so Amending the Constitution does not... gcomeau Oct 2015 #238

So you admit that had people not been denied their rights to keep and bear arms slavery Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #250

Are you reading some other discussion... gcomeau Oct 2015 #251

And I said nothing resembling your previous post. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #257

Oh yes you did. gcomeau Oct 2015 #258

Congratulations, you cited the Dred Scott decision I cited several posts ago. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #262

No. Just no. beevul Oct 2015 #232

Nice to see you put a stern talking to.. gcomeau Oct 2015 #237

Read it again. beevul Oct 2015 #239

Ok, read it again. gcomeau Oct 2015 #240

Wrong again. beevul Oct 2015 #242

Perhaps you need a refresher course in English. gcomeau Oct 2015 #247

Fail again. beevul Oct 2015 #249

You know saying it over and over... gcomeau Oct 2015 #252

Wrong yet again. Here, I'll show you. beevul Oct 2015 #253

FFS gcomeau Oct 2015 #254

Yes, what you said, quoted to show that you hold the viewpoint that I object to. beevul Oct 2015 #255

You have got to be joking. gcomeau Oct 2015 #256

And you have got to be blind. beevul Oct 2015 #259

Wow. Just wow. gcomeau Oct 2015 #260

I'm starting to wonder if you want to argue just to argue. beevul Oct 2015 #261

Finally... gcomeau Oct 2015 #263

Weasel my way out of? beevul Oct 2015 #264

Tell you what... gcomeau Oct 2015 #266

I don't fence with straw men, sorry. N/T beevul Oct 2015 #267

Oh are we back to denying it *again*? gcomeau Oct 2015 #268

Not at all. We are back to correcting you. Again. beevul Oct 2015 #270

FFS gcomeau Oct 2015 #272

Yes indeed I do, and I speak it with precision. beevul Oct 2015 #273

So, I repeat yet again... gcomeau Oct 2015 #274

It says more about you than it says about me. beevul Oct 2015 #275

And you have no business operating without adult supervision. gcomeau Oct 2015 #277

Yours is a response worthy of someone that sees other better functioning adults as children. beevul Oct 2015 #278

This is my only response to you from here out... gcomeau Oct 2015 #279

"Again... strawman my ass." beevul Oct 2015 #281

Yup. gcomeau Oct 2015 #282

Directly quote me without putting your words in my mouth all you like. beevul Oct 2015 #283

I will. gcomeau Oct 2015 #284

Only in your view. beevul Oct 2015 #285

Care to take a poll on that? gcomeau Oct 2015 #286

A poll on what? beevul Oct 2015 #287

And yet you think it's "only in my view"... gcomeau Oct 2015 #288

Its a tiny minority viewpoint, that others are children. beevul Oct 2015 #289

Hardly. gcomeau Oct 2015 #291

Nice try. beevul Oct 2015 #292

Not really trying. gcomeau Oct 2015 #295

Oh please. beevul Oct 2015 #296

Yeah... gcomeau Oct 2015 #297

I'll say this, it is entertaining... beevul Oct 2015 #298

Aww, I do enjoy the classics. gcomeau Oct 2015 #299

What you refer to, was generally about carry, not ownership. beevul Oct 2015 #229

Gun owners often can't picture how other people don't want them.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #233

If I had expressed that notion, I could see why you brought it up. beevul Oct 2015 #234

Imagine if nobody had them. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #235

Uh...yeah... beevul Oct 2015 #236

It's mainly white males that want them and they're in the minority. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #243

Theres another question... beevul Oct 2015 #244

Who CARES as long as their women like you? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #245

Not at all. beevul Oct 2015 #246

Not when you consider there's a new generation that isn't as freaked out terrified as the last one. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #248

Your chance of dying from a firearm is 1 in 514,147 StrongBad Oct 2015 #61

The Blaze? hatrack Oct 2015 #63

The study was done by The Economist, genius. StrongBad Oct 2015 #64

CDC notes 11,208 deaths by firearms (homicide) for 2013 - or 3.5 per 100,000 population hatrack Oct 2015 #65

Just because I noted the discrepency myself... Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #66

Thank you - appreciate it! hatrack Oct 2015 #67

Glad to be of service. o7 n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #69

Fine, assume that's correct. StrongBad Oct 2015 #70

Why on earth would you consider removing gang violence? Marr Oct 2015 #145

Ok don't remove it. My original point still stands. StrongBad Oct 2015 #153

Here is a better source lancer78 Oct 2015 #78

Or even falls lancer78 Oct 2015 #79

People have to drive. Marr Oct 2015 #146

I have a right lancer78 Oct 2015 #75

Living w/o fear of being shot isn't difficult. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #80

My husband's school experienced a shooter running amok Generic Other Oct 2015 #83

Cavalier? I'd argue otherwise. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #84

Every teacher and student in America has to deal with PTSD Generic Other Oct 2015 #85

"They have proven they cannot be trusted to act responsibly?" branford Oct 2015 #126

Law abiding enablers and bullies Generic Other Oct 2015 #197

So, no, you don't actually have any data or statistics. branford Oct 2015 #198

80-100 million enablers and defenders Generic Other Oct 2015 #200

As I said earlier madokie Oct 2015 #89

I see it, sure. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #142

Well within an order of magnitude of being killed in a car accident, which I think is more than a MillennialDem Oct 2015 #115

2nd Amendment calls for a WELL REGULATED MILITIA MasonDreams Oct 2015 #86

Would requiring all Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #96

Sure, but they'd also have to pass physical fitness standards and pass one qualification in MillennialDem Oct 2015 #116

Why? None of that was required when the 2A was authored. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #156

So there were no physical fitness standards in 1700s militaries? Good to know. Also MillennialDem Oct 2015 #159

The standard was "able bodied" which was mostly assumed unless shown to be otherwise. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #168

Yeah so give anyone who wants to be in the "militia" a fitness test to make sure they're able bodied MillennialDem Oct 2015 #188

Why? Fitness tests should only be used for those seeking an exemption Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #196

If you're not fit enough to fight, then you don't get to be part of the militia. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #202

True but you're disingenuously looking for reasons to exclude when you know Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #207

The more hoops one has to jump through, the more they're going to be deterred from doing it. If we MillennialDem Oct 2015 #211

Good idea Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #241

You should probably Keefer Oct 2015 #104

No, it really doesn't. beevul Oct 2015 #215

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #216

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #217

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #218

Hear, hear madokie! Mnemosyne Oct 2015 #87

I'm old madokie Oct 2015 #90

No one should have to live afraid, sadly too many do. I went to see Arlo Guthrie the other evening Mnemosyne Oct 2015 #221

Then let's disarm the cops while we are at it Demeter Oct 2015 #88

Yes by all means lets do that madokie Oct 2015 #91

You believe homicidal maniacs exist in our society but you want to disarm the cops. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #98

Tasers and batons. You're also a threat unless you never shoot those guns other than at MillennialDem Oct 2015 #117

Saying that anything that can cause harm must be disabled is an impossible standard. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #155

You're right about anything, but not for guns :) MillennialDem Oct 2015 #161

In other words, your standards are arbitrary and self-serving. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #170

No. If you asked me about whether you could completely ban guns I would say no. Could you reduce MillennialDem Oct 2015 #187

LOL... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #157

Knives dont rip through drywall or cars when a kid gets a hold of them. Or when someone misses MillennialDem Oct 2015 #160

So you seem more concerned about humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #182

I'm concerned with homicides and suicides too, but yes accidents of course are very concerning MillennialDem Oct 2015 #184

Hell yes! leftofcool Oct 2015 #102

Works for me. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #103

It would seem that workinclasszero Oct 2015 #105

I wonder what the tipping point will be. Vinca Oct 2015 #106

Local News Punx Oct 2015 #108

Gun nuts are murderers... LannyDeVaney Oct 2015 #125

You do know that humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #151

If your worried that bad about something statistically highly unlikely Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #127

And yet it's very statistically unlikely a gun nut will ever need their gun to use in self defense, MillennialDem Oct 2015 #128

Are you for real? humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #150

That has absolutely zero to do with what I said. Whether the populace owns guns or not, the MillennialDem Oct 2015 #152

Almost ? humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #154

If guns are banned, very few criminals are going to have guns. Especially your run of the MillennialDem Oct 2015 #163

What part of criminals don't respect the humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #180

Dude really? Yes Johns who visit prostitutes are "criminals" - but do you think there wouldn't be MillennialDem Oct 2015 #186

So you are against legalized Marijuana... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #193

Where did I say I was against marijuana? I simply stated more drugs would be MillennialDem Oct 2015 #195

1,000 times this! jen63 Oct 2015 #269

You were saying???? workinclasszero Oct 2015 #158

doubt that is of much comfort to the families of the 9 just killed treestar Oct 2015 #208

A-fucking-men!!!! KNR n/t Hepburn Oct 2015 #135

The Handmaid�s Tale by Margaret Atwood Rafale Oct 2015 #148

+1 NutmegYankee Oct 2015 #164

Yes you do, humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #149

Looks at constitution... No you don't. Taitertots Oct 2015 #162

2nd ammendment rights should not trump southmost Oct 2015 #166

Republican Party dpatbrown Oct 2015 #177

For what exactly... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #194

Advocating dpatbrown Oct 2015 #209

k and r..nt Stuart G Oct 2015 #189

Do you have the money to pay for this? Only if you can pay more than the NRA will you have a chance. Kablooie Oct 2015 #192

"This is a free country..." MrScorpio Oct 2015 #265

And you are 99.7% likely to do just that even before circumstances and sense improve that whatthehey Oct 2015 #293

Tell the criminals. nt clarice Oct 2015 #294