General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

130. However, Australia's overall suicide rate is still comparable

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:29 AM

Oct 2015

to all other Western countries, including the USA (and the American suicide rate is much lower than other first world gun control havens like Japan and South Korea). Simply, a suicide victim is no less dead if they take their life with an instrument other than a gun.

Consistent with my prior post, Australia also had far fewer mass shootings and similar events before they enacted strict gun regulation.

My point is that the United States and Australia (and Europe, Japan, Canada, etc.) have never really been comparable in terms of violent crime or firearm ownership and use. As a matter of culture, history and law, firearms occupy a very different place in the United States than they do in Australia, Canada, most of Europe and elsewhere.

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I have a right [View all] madokie Oct 2015 OP

K & R ! Lars39 Oct 2015 #1

Please Congress, it's your job to REGULATE business, the gun manufacturers need some regulating. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #2

Thank Boehner malaise Oct 2015 #3

Unfortunately, your right to life SheilaT Oct 2015 #4

The campus Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #5

Please madokie Oct 2015 #6

I'm not an apologist Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #8

I think Australia's firearms laws would be a great model. Old Crow Oct 2015 #16

I disagree TeddyR Oct 2015 #51

Nope, Australia is definitely not the U.S. ... Old Crow Oct 2015 #52

No we could interpret the 2Amend correctly Generic Other Oct 2015 #71

Interesting thoughts. Old Crow Oct 2015 #72

I realize this is an important right to many Generic Other Oct 2015 #74

I understand completely. Old Crow Oct 2015 #76

Thanks for listening to me vent tonight Generic Other Oct 2015 #81

My pleasure. It was a worthy vent. Old Crow Oct 2015 #82

I teach at a CC. This kind of shit is scary. But yes, this is why it's so important to get a MillennialDem Oct 2015 #110

I really understand how you feel. redstatebluegirl Oct 2015 #129

I used to think that until someone pointed out that "People" is plural. ieoeja Oct 2015 #144

Really interesting points. Old Crow Oct 2015 #205

Correct me if I'm wrong here but BarackTheVote Oct 2015 #280

The word militia seems to be forgotten in every discussion about guns. A Simple Game Oct 2015 #99

"Keep" them in an armory. Bohunk68 Oct 2015 #107

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #133

Nor do we Brainstormy Oct 2015 #131

Neither does America. randys1 Oct 2015 #276

Australia's level of gun crime was always much lower than the USA, branford Oct 2015 #120

I agree with some of what you're saying. Old Crow Oct 2015 #122

However, Australia's overall suicide rate is still comparable branford Oct 2015 #130

I can't agree. Old Crow Oct 2015 #141

Yeah, we could always go with the mental health issue passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #18

But-- Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #24

the kid had a pistol--not a Rambo gun passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #32

Thought I explained Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #34

I guess I'll wait for the jury to come in on that. passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #35

I don't know enough about guns Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #38

How did I know you were going to come back with a rebuttal? passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #41

What would help is to reduce the massive numbers of guns available in the USofA. rhett o rick Oct 2015 #199

Actually there was an armed student interviewed by KATU that was on scene at the time... cascadiance Oct 2015 #11

Three pistols and 1 handgun? GGJohn Oct 2015 #47

Miss type on my part. Should have written "long gun"... cascadiance Oct 2015 #49

No problem, kinda figured that's what you meant. GGJohn Oct 2015 #50

The shooter Old Codger Oct 2015 #42

My bad Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #44

Each Oregon university can set its own policy and they prohibit concealed carry. aikoaiko Oct 2015 #58

Wrong malaise Oct 2015 #97

Oregon banned gun free on campus and the guy was 26 bigbrother05 Oct 2015 #137

It appears that the CCH student was entirely reasonable and responsible. branford Oct 2015 #139

Him individually, or to society as a whole? mythology Oct 2015 #210

Ban guns...period. Hepburn Oct 2015 #138

That will never happen n/t Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #143

That which fails to hold legal gun owners accountable Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #222

Some college campuses, including the Oregon one in the last shooting, are not gun-free zones. haele Oct 2015 #290

We hold these truths to be self evident... n2doc Oct 2015 #7

The Constitution is law. The Declaration of Independence is not. hack89 Oct 2015 #9

The declaration is what we were founded on n2doc Oct 2015 #12

Enumerated rights are at the top of the legal pyramid hack89 Oct 2015 #14

None of the enumerated rights are in effect unless you have life. Glassunion Oct 2015 #17

Not in the U.S. legal system hack89 Oct 2015 #20

So the courts do not recognize inalienable rights? Glassunion Oct 2015 #26

Those are specific crimes codified in law hack89 Oct 2015 #33

It is codified in law because it is a basic natural right. Glassunion Oct 2015 #39

Ok. Show me some case law and I am with you. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #40

Self-defense is a basic, natural right. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #92

Indeed. I agree. Glassunion Oct 2015 #109

But many of the policies being advocated would deny people their right to self-defense Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #111

Me personally, I'm not advocating for such things that would deny the right. Glassunion Oct 2015 #123

That's an argument to make it easier, quicker and more efficient to buy cold medication branford Oct 2015 #136

Except life is an enumerated right in the CONSTITUTION, not just the declaration MillennialDem Oct 2015 #112

So perhaps we should make maniacs executing people a serious crime? hack89 Oct 2015 #113

Don't see why the snark. It's an enumerated right. Game over for that argument. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #114

The 14A limits the power of the state and protects your right not to be summarily executed hack89 Oct 2015 #118

I don't get how that's NOT enumerated then. The 2nd amendment doesn't say a private citizen can't MillennialDem Oct 2015 #119

Ok. So accepting that it is an enumerate right hack89 Oct 2015 #121

I'm for ultimately banning, but realize it would take a constitutional amendment - but yes in MillennialDem Oct 2015 #124

The PLCAA was in response to an attempt at a backdoor gun ban. hack89 Oct 2015 #132

I'm well aware of what it is, and I support repealing it. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #134

So you can sue gun manufacturers out of existence? hack89 Oct 2015 #140

Technically, Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #10

As I said to the gun bumper above, I could care less n/t n2doc Oct 2015 #13

If you 'could care less', doesn't that mean you still care a little? Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #19

Why the insult? GGJohn Oct 2015 #48

And understanding of basic civics is not the strong suit for many here. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #15

I agree with much of what you're stating. Old Crow Oct 2015 #23

You are correct that it isn't unamendable TeddyR Oct 2015 #203

I agree that it would be a tremendous task, certainly. Old Crow Oct 2015 #204

And basic civility is also beyond many here. oneshooter Oct 2015 #219

List all of the rights in the constitution. Glassunion Oct 2015 #22

Picking nits a bit... Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #31

Our enumerated rights are limited and subject to interpretation ... etherealtruth Oct 2015 #29

If Life is that imprtant lancer78 Oct 2015 #77

by that logic lancer78 Oct 2015 #271

We all have a right to replace this neutered Congress with SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #21

YES! We've been held hostage LiberalElite Oct 2015 #25

Yes we have madokie Oct 2015 #27

Aren't hostage situations resolved by people who make a profession of bearing arms? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #93

The gun nuts hold the right to kill above all rights liberal N proud Oct 2015 #28

As it stands today that is correct madokie Oct 2015 #30

If there actually were Ms. Yertle Oct 2015 #36

Is that any different than the meme that if everyone had a gun we would be safer? liberal N proud Oct 2015 #94

No one says that except gun grabbers jousting straw men. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #100

Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #37

Ohhhh MyNameGoesHere Oct 2015 #45

Bye. hatrack Oct 2015 #54

"They're coming for my guns" is a reicht wing argument. STOP making it. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #62

Erm... Might want to look around the forum. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #68

What you are arguing is a right to Security, not life. NutmegYankee Oct 2015 #43

+1 ShrimpPoboy Oct 2015 #176

K&R..... daleanime Oct 2015 #46

My take on the 2nd Amendment HassleCat Oct 2015 #53

Title 10 USC, Section 311 Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #60

I see that one cited often HassleCat Oct 2015 #73

"And I forget why you're no longer a militia member after age 45" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #101

Maybe you're not feeling me HassleCat Oct 2015 #147

+1,000,000 SoapBox Oct 2015 #55

Another K&R Cleita Oct 2015 #56

I have read the whole thread and I agree that we need to do jwirr Oct 2015 #57

you are so right on this shanti Oct 2015 #190

And add the hate and greed propaganda that is everywhere jwirr Oct 2015 #191

"Freedom From Fear" was one of FDR's four.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #59

You're using a series of posters that were used to sell war bonds to argue *against* guns? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #95

The goal is to hang the guns up in times of peace..... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #165

Is this planet Earth you're referring to? Because if it is what you describe has never occurred. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #167

Sure it has. The old west used to take pride in having a gun free town with law and order. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #169

DC and Chicago were instructed that such things were unconstitutional Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #171

Can't wait for the court to flip our way. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #172

Sure, if you want to abdicate your rights to 9 unelected people. Maybe while you're enjoying a 2A Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #173

And having a handgun prevents that. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #174

And being disarmed sheep that abdicate to the unelected prevents that. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #178

Uh huh. Sure. Go run out your door guns ablazing and see where that gets you. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #181

Specifically Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Kennedy and Alito so instructed. gcomeau Oct 2015 #175

The same court that upheld the ACA twice and recognized marriage equality. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #179

With a rather different makeup of Justices in majority and dissent. gcomeau Oct 2015 #183

What is stupid is thinking you can disregard whatever you don't like Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #185

And what decree would it be that I made genius? -eom gcomeau Oct 2015 #201

That rulings you disapprove of should be overturned Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #206

Are you fucking serious? gcomeau Oct 2015 #212

You seem excitable and easily given to emotion. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #213

What I am is readily aggravated by nonsense. gcomeau Oct 2015 #214

Grow-up and calm down. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #220

Says the kid who doesn't want his toys taken away... gcomeau Oct 2015 #223

That's "her" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #224

Uh-huh gcomeau Oct 2015 #225

You thought throwing your own silly ideas back at you was a tantrum? lol Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #226

Yes, because clearly I advocated revoking the 1A... gcomeau Oct 2015 #227

I never said you advocate revoking the 1A but you obviously Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #228

Ah, so it's just anyone thinking... gcomeau Oct 2015 #230

Ending slavery? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #231

Ah, so Amending the Constitution does not... gcomeau Oct 2015 #238

So you admit that had people not been denied their rights to keep and bear arms slavery Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #250

Are you reading some other discussion... gcomeau Oct 2015 #251

And I said nothing resembling your previous post. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #257

Oh yes you did. gcomeau Oct 2015 #258

Congratulations, you cited the Dred Scott decision I cited several posts ago. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #262

No. Just no. beevul Oct 2015 #232

Nice to see you put a stern talking to.. gcomeau Oct 2015 #237

Read it again. beevul Oct 2015 #239

Ok, read it again. gcomeau Oct 2015 #240

Wrong again. beevul Oct 2015 #242

Perhaps you need a refresher course in English. gcomeau Oct 2015 #247

Fail again. beevul Oct 2015 #249

You know saying it over and over... gcomeau Oct 2015 #252

Wrong yet again. Here, I'll show you. beevul Oct 2015 #253

FFS gcomeau Oct 2015 #254

Yes, what you said, quoted to show that you hold the viewpoint that I object to. beevul Oct 2015 #255

You have got to be joking. gcomeau Oct 2015 #256

And you have got to be blind. beevul Oct 2015 #259

Wow. Just wow. gcomeau Oct 2015 #260

I'm starting to wonder if you want to argue just to argue. beevul Oct 2015 #261

Finally... gcomeau Oct 2015 #263

Weasel my way out of? beevul Oct 2015 #264

Tell you what... gcomeau Oct 2015 #266

I don't fence with straw men, sorry. N/T beevul Oct 2015 #267

Oh are we back to denying it *again*? gcomeau Oct 2015 #268

Not at all. We are back to correcting you. Again. beevul Oct 2015 #270

FFS gcomeau Oct 2015 #272

Yes indeed I do, and I speak it with precision. beevul Oct 2015 #273

So, I repeat yet again... gcomeau Oct 2015 #274

It says more about you than it says about me. beevul Oct 2015 #275

And you have no business operating without adult supervision. gcomeau Oct 2015 #277

Yours is a response worthy of someone that sees other better functioning adults as children. beevul Oct 2015 #278

This is my only response to you from here out... gcomeau Oct 2015 #279

"Again... strawman my ass." beevul Oct 2015 #281

Yup. gcomeau Oct 2015 #282

Directly quote me without putting your words in my mouth all you like. beevul Oct 2015 #283

I will. gcomeau Oct 2015 #284

Only in your view. beevul Oct 2015 #285

Care to take a poll on that? gcomeau Oct 2015 #286

A poll on what? beevul Oct 2015 #287

And yet you think it's "only in my view"... gcomeau Oct 2015 #288

Its a tiny minority viewpoint, that others are children. beevul Oct 2015 #289

Hardly. gcomeau Oct 2015 #291

Nice try. beevul Oct 2015 #292

Not really trying. gcomeau Oct 2015 #295

Oh please. beevul Oct 2015 #296

Yeah... gcomeau Oct 2015 #297

I'll say this, it is entertaining... beevul Oct 2015 #298

Aww, I do enjoy the classics. gcomeau Oct 2015 #299

What you refer to, was generally about carry, not ownership. beevul Oct 2015 #229

Gun owners often can't picture how other people don't want them.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #233

If I had expressed that notion, I could see why you brought it up. beevul Oct 2015 #234

Imagine if nobody had them. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #235

Uh...yeah... beevul Oct 2015 #236

It's mainly white males that want them and they're in the minority. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #243

Theres another question... beevul Oct 2015 #244

Who CARES as long as their women like you? Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #245

Not at all. beevul Oct 2015 #246

Not when you consider there's a new generation that isn't as freaked out terrified as the last one. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #248

Your chance of dying from a firearm is 1 in 514,147 StrongBad Oct 2015 #61

The Blaze? hatrack Oct 2015 #63

The study was done by The Economist, genius. StrongBad Oct 2015 #64

CDC notes 11,208 deaths by firearms (homicide) for 2013 - or 3.5 per 100,000 population hatrack Oct 2015 #65

Just because I noted the discrepency myself... Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #66

Thank you - appreciate it! hatrack Oct 2015 #67

Glad to be of service. o7 n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #69

Fine, assume that's correct. StrongBad Oct 2015 #70

Why on earth would you consider removing gang violence? Marr Oct 2015 #145

Ok don't remove it. My original point still stands. StrongBad Oct 2015 #153

Here is a better source lancer78 Oct 2015 #78

Or even falls lancer78 Oct 2015 #79

People have to drive. Marr Oct 2015 #146

I have a right lancer78 Oct 2015 #75

Living w/o fear of being shot isn't difficult. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #80

My husband's school experienced a shooter running amok Generic Other Oct 2015 #83

Cavalier? I'd argue otherwise. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #84

Every teacher and student in America has to deal with PTSD Generic Other Oct 2015 #85

"They have proven they cannot be trusted to act responsibly?" branford Oct 2015 #126

Law abiding enablers and bullies Generic Other Oct 2015 #197

So, no, you don't actually have any data or statistics. branford Oct 2015 #198

80-100 million enablers and defenders Generic Other Oct 2015 #200

As I said earlier madokie Oct 2015 #89

I see it, sure. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #142

Well within an order of magnitude of being killed in a car accident, which I think is more than a MillennialDem Oct 2015 #115

2nd Amendment calls for a WELL REGULATED MILITIA MasonDreams Oct 2015 #86

Would requiring all Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #96

Sure, but they'd also have to pass physical fitness standards and pass one qualification in MillennialDem Oct 2015 #116

Why? None of that was required when the 2A was authored. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #156

So there were no physical fitness standards in 1700s militaries? Good to know. Also MillennialDem Oct 2015 #159

The standard was "able bodied" which was mostly assumed unless shown to be otherwise. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #168

Yeah so give anyone who wants to be in the "militia" a fitness test to make sure they're able bodied MillennialDem Oct 2015 #188

Why? Fitness tests should only be used for those seeking an exemption Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #196

If you're not fit enough to fight, then you don't get to be part of the militia. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #202

True but you're disingenuously looking for reasons to exclude when you know Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #207

The more hoops one has to jump through, the more they're going to be deterred from doing it. If we MillennialDem Oct 2015 #211

Good idea Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #241

You should probably Keefer Oct 2015 #104

No, it really doesn't. beevul Oct 2015 #215

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #216

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #217

dupe n/t beevul Oct 2015 #218

Hear, hear madokie! Mnemosyne Oct 2015 #87

I'm old madokie Oct 2015 #90

No one should have to live afraid, sadly too many do. I went to see Arlo Guthrie the other evening Mnemosyne Oct 2015 #221

Then let's disarm the cops while we are at it Demeter Oct 2015 #88

Yes by all means lets do that madokie Oct 2015 #91

You believe homicidal maniacs exist in our society but you want to disarm the cops. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #98

Tasers and batons. You're also a threat unless you never shoot those guns other than at MillennialDem Oct 2015 #117

Saying that anything that can cause harm must be disabled is an impossible standard. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #155

You're right about anything, but not for guns :) MillennialDem Oct 2015 #161

In other words, your standards are arbitrary and self-serving. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #170

No. If you asked me about whether you could completely ban guns I would say no. Could you reduce MillennialDem Oct 2015 #187

LOL... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #157

Knives dont rip through drywall or cars when a kid gets a hold of them. Or when someone misses MillennialDem Oct 2015 #160

So you seem more concerned about humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #182

I'm concerned with homicides and suicides too, but yes accidents of course are very concerning MillennialDem Oct 2015 #184

Hell yes! leftofcool Oct 2015 #102

Works for me. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #103

It would seem that workinclasszero Oct 2015 #105

I wonder what the tipping point will be. Vinca Oct 2015 #106

Local News Punx Oct 2015 #108

Gun nuts are murderers... LannyDeVaney Oct 2015 #125

You do know that humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #151

If your worried that bad about something statistically highly unlikely Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #127

And yet it's very statistically unlikely a gun nut will ever need their gun to use in self defense, MillennialDem Oct 2015 #128

Are you for real? humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #150

That has absolutely zero to do with what I said. Whether the populace owns guns or not, the MillennialDem Oct 2015 #152

Almost ? humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #154

If guns are banned, very few criminals are going to have guns. Especially your run of the MillennialDem Oct 2015 #163

What part of criminals don't respect the humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #180

Dude really? Yes Johns who visit prostitutes are "criminals" - but do you think there wouldn't be MillennialDem Oct 2015 #186

So you are against legalized Marijuana... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #193

Where did I say I was against marijuana? I simply stated more drugs would be MillennialDem Oct 2015 #195

1,000 times this! jen63 Oct 2015 #269

You were saying???? workinclasszero Oct 2015 #158

doubt that is of much comfort to the families of the 9 just killed treestar Oct 2015 #208

A-fucking-men!!!! KNR n/t Hepburn Oct 2015 #135

The Handmaid�s Tale by Margaret Atwood Rafale Oct 2015 #148

+1 NutmegYankee Oct 2015 #164

Yes you do, humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #149

Looks at constitution... No you don't. Taitertots Oct 2015 #162

2nd ammendment rights should not trump southmost Oct 2015 #166

Republican Party dpatbrown Oct 2015 #177

For what exactly... humbled_opinion Oct 2015 #194

Advocating dpatbrown Oct 2015 #209

k and r..nt Stuart G Oct 2015 #189

Do you have the money to pay for this? Only if you can pay more than the NRA will you have a chance. Kablooie Oct 2015 #192

"This is a free country..." MrScorpio Oct 2015 #265

And you are 99.7% likely to do just that even before circumstances and sense improve that whatthehey Oct 2015 #293

Tell the criminals. nt clarice Oct 2015 #294