General Discussion

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,961 posts)

192. The answer is a lengthy, multigenerational process

Reply to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:56 PM

Oct 2015

Along the lines of the anti-abortion, anti-smoking, and anti-drunk driving movements. Relentless movements that keep on keeping on in the face of multiple legal defeats. Movements that work to convert people culturally -- not just change laws.

Confiscation? Won't happen. Even if you changed the Constitution, getting guns out of the hands of gun owners would take a generation or more, and you'd give rise to a massive smuggling industry.

Gun Control? Doesn't change anything.

Start by finding the allies and stakeholders, examples of which include: Victims groups. Law enforcement. Big insurance. C-store industry groups.

Start educating around talking points that could include:
- How many times more likely you are likely to shoot yourself or a loved one than a burglar
- How a good alarm system protects your property even when you are not home and allows for instant law enforcement notification during a home invasion
- Even experienced and/or well known gun users like Chris Kyle and Charles Vacca were killed at gun ranges with firearms
- For every story of how a woman shot an intruder that turned out to be a rapist/serial killer, there are many times that number of stories of a kid that picked up a gun and shot a playmate or family member
- Guns make suicide easy
- Does the 2nd Amendment make all of the other amendments possible, or does it make the violation of those amendments possible. Does the 2nd Amendment allow us to defend life and property, or is it mostly used to take life and property?

Encourage law makers to allow insurance companies to increase homeowners insurance for gun owners, and give discounts for registration of firearms, properly installed gun safes, and completion of firearms safety courses.

No-fault injury funds to compensate those injured and killed by firearms should be funded via taxation on ammunition sales.

Public service announcements showing victims of firearms.

Stiff prison sentences for those that commit crimes with firearms.

It took 240 years to get here, and there is no quick fix.

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So if gun control isn't the answer, what is the answer? [View all] leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 OP

Gun control is the answer. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #1

Amen. K&R nt TBF Oct 2015 #145

Yes. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #191

I wouldn't reach for a handgun to defend my home. Aerows Oct 2015 #246

Obama gave a great speech pushing back on the public to vote for the gun control they say applegrove Oct 2015 #2

Nothing nobody would seriously discuss because there's no political gain to be had. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #3

It's time to tell the Gun Protection Society to pound sand even if it cost us votes. Doing nothing Hoyt Oct 2015 #8

If it costs us votes how do you propose to move legislation? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #11

Don't care. Besides, you are just trying to protect your darn guns. Hoyt Oct 2015 #27

Their ability to play with their guns is FAR more important to them than others lives randys1 Oct 2015 #32

blah blah blah drunk drivers blah blah you don't care blah blah blah Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #74

Lock up young men? The few who do this seem to all be young men. SharonAnn Oct 2015 #4

Young white men from affluent backgrounds. leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #7

I'm going to cross-post this from the Gungeon; I think it's relevant to what you're asking. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #10

Yea. There is something going terribly wrong here. leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #16

People do a great disservice to their children hifiguy Oct 2015 #54

then why aren't the mass shootings occurring with this frequency where there is strong gun control? CreekDog Oct 2015 #51

I would say largely because those places with strong gun control aren't America. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #81

Succeeded? (nt) enough Oct 2015 #90

America is not a successful nation? nt branford Oct 2015 #142

You're saying countries have to study stop signs and universal healthcare CreekDog Oct 2015 #130

Well, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #132

Individualism is killing us - TBF Oct 2015 #143

Sorry for the delay in response; I sleep odd hours. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #199

So just maybe... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #53

About. Straw Man Oct 2015 #129

Not of the same scale, but it's not like Chlorine isn't off the table, either. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #133

But if he couldn't get a gun, he couldn't shoot people, could he? CTyankee Oct 2015 #176

You're right, he couldn't shoot people. He'd still be screwed up, but golly, he don't got a gun. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #200

"not about preventing rampages" are you kidding me? CTyankee Oct 2015 #204

We're not on opposite sides of this, CT, contrary to what you may think. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #211

More later. Gotta go do my art essay here in GD...join the discussion if you can CTyankee Oct 2015 #212

Ooh, art essay! Okay, you've got me intrigued. I'll swing past GD in a bit. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #217

Lots of lovely pictures. You won't be sorry... CTyankee Oct 2015 #219

Hey, I like you. :) OneGrassRoot Oct 2015 #182

Eh, the Gungeon's a bit of a mess. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #202

Well, we like you too, OGR. pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #224

There is definitely something else, in addition to the guns, going on here. arcane1 Oct 2015 #13

The vast vast vast majority don't... TipTok Oct 2015 #18

Daddies are bringing them up in the gun culture. Hoyt Oct 2015 #29

that sounds like "lock up their parents" more like MisterP Oct 2015 #137

MOAR GUNZ!!! longship Oct 2015 #5

you know that is exactly what the gunzers believe. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #14

Of course I do. longship Oct 2015 #22

I'm at the point where I wish Hayduke Bomgarte Oct 2015 #6

You make valid points brush Oct 2015 #31

64 days. Glassunion Oct 2015 #45

I saw a graph posted, I think it was on DU, with calendar months . . . brush Oct 2015 #56

I guess it would also depend on your definition of "mass shooting". Glassunion Oct 2015 #58

I'm not interested in parsing words as to what constitutes a mass killing . . . brush Oct 2015 #73

Yes I am interested. You misread me. Glassunion Oct 2015 #76

Okay, glad we're on the same page. nt brush Oct 2015 #79

Federal definition of “mass killing”—defined as “three or more” killed. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #216

Mandatory gun insurance. KamaAina Oct 2015 #9

How does insurance stop criminal acts? hack89 Oct 2015 #19

Because insurance implies registration, just like with automobiles. longship Oct 2015 #24

There are 300 million unregistered guns in America hack89 Oct 2015 #28

Whatever we do, it should be viewed a long term endeavor. Proposals don't have to be Hoyt Oct 2015 #35

Doing nothing will still result in less gun violence nt hack89 Oct 2015 #39

And your evidence for this claim is what? mythology Oct 2015 #82

20 years of constantly declining violent crime rates hack89 Oct 2015 #85

I was only arguing that mandatory insurance implies mandatory registration. longship Oct 2015 #40

Got it. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #42

Registration and insurance would start with all new gun purchases brush Oct 2015 #43

I question how workable it is hack89 Oct 2015 #62

I don't agree. It's workable if we just have the will to rid our country of these mass killing . . . brush Oct 2015 #65

I am talking about getting 50 states to pass legislation hack89 Oct 2015 #70

All I'm getting from your post is that you are unwilling to try anything . . . brush Oct 2015 #75

No. I just reject registration as a solution. hack89 Oct 2015 #77

Okay, I don't agree but what are your ideas to stop the killings? brush Oct 2015 #87

I support most gun control proposals with only two firm exceptions hack89 Oct 2015 #89

Okay finally we have something positive to discuss brush Oct 2015 #99

Assault Weapon Ban hack89 Oct 2015 #100

What about insurance? brush Oct 2015 #102

Because it is irrelevant to gun violence and gun deaths hack89 Oct 2015 #106

If insurance is required it would reinforce the need for strong background . . . brush Oct 2015 #113

No it won't hack89 Oct 2015 #116

That's where legislation has to come in to make insurance an/or registration a . . . brush Oct 2015 #121

Ok nt hack89 Oct 2015 #122

Not to mention that the NRA would get into the insurance business and rake in millions. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #125

why is keeping your assault weapons so important to you? randys1 Oct 2015 #154

I dislike security theater hack89 Oct 2015 #161

Why do you need guns? randys1 Oct 2015 #162

I don't need guns. hack89 Oct 2015 #165

I want cheeseburgers everyday but they are unhealthy...so as an adult I have to decide randys1 Oct 2015 #167

As long as the choice is yours then I have no problem with it hack89 Oct 2015 #171

And we finally get there. So it is about you.. randys1 Oct 2015 #172

I take my civil rights seriously hack89 Oct 2015 #175

Your insistence that we should all have assault weapons if we want them, is just amazing to me randys1 Oct 2015 #177

I own and use many things that kill many more people than semi-automatic rifles. hack89 Oct 2015 #179

many? could you list them? i can think of one randys1 Oct 2015 #180

Cars, alcohol, tobacco, a swimming pool, knives, household chemicals. hack89 Oct 2015 #181

Which of these has at it's sole purpose to kill people? well, one of two purposes randys1 Oct 2015 #186

So certain deaths are acceptable to you and others are not? hack89 Oct 2015 #188

ridiculous comment, discussion over randys1 Oct 2015 #189

Smart of you to wave the white flag hack89 Oct 2015 #190

Your PS3 HAS killed as many people as his guns. beevul Oct 2015 #221

all about you, ok jack_krass Oct 2015 #205

Alcohol exists for the sole purpose of killing people? since when? randys1 Oct 2015 #208

As expected, the issue really isn't "assault weapons" at all. It rarely is. branford Oct 2015 #170

All rifles, not just "assault weapons," account for a tiny percentage of gun crime. branford Oct 2015 #163

Insurance is very ingenuous. If it is required and you don't have it.... underpants Oct 2015 #47

Insurance would cost a pittance hack89 Oct 2015 #59

Matter of degree and yes insurance does cover criminal acts underpants Oct 2015 #95

No insurance company would expose themselves to paying out for a Sandy Hook hack89 Oct 2015 #98

Because there is too much risk? underpants Oct 2015 #108

But I am not willing to pay to cover a Sandy Hook hack89 Oct 2015 #112

Insurance sounds like a great idea but it would be just like other insurances. Waldorf Oct 2015 #93

How would that apply in a situation like this? TipTok Oct 2015 #20

The families and survivors, from the insurance company. KamaAina Oct 2015 #26

You can't be insured for a criminal act ... TipTok Oct 2015 #34

Like most insurance policies, it would be voided if the person was committing a criminal act. Waldorf Oct 2015 #94

No insurance company TeddyR Oct 2015 #114

Travel between states is a constitutionally protected right KamaAina Oct 2015 #135

The government doesn't have to provide you with a car, either. X_Digger Oct 2015 #138

Actually, some life insurance policies do cover suicide Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2015 #195

"The idea is.." Courts are used to seeing subterfuge in school prayer, maybe abortion... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #209

That's a really interesting idea. underpants Oct 2015 #48

What other rights should we require insurance for?? ileus Oct 2015 #164

In every other country that has had gun massacre problems Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #12

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #15

But why do they need psych drugs to begin with? n/t leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #17

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #38

How about we thrash around aimlessly avoiding Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #72

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #105

George Hennard Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #120

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #126

You've got your talking point and you're sticking to it. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #128

it is the answer etherealtruth Oct 2015 #21

If I could afford it, I'd move to England or Canada shenmue Oct 2015 #23

There will be a debate walkingman Oct 2015 #25

What do we do about the millions of handguns, semi-automatic and automatic weapons Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #36

Melt em down any time any of them are used in a crime. Even if they were stolen from someone else. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #57

I think guns used in crimes are not returned into circulation. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #67

The supreme court has already ruled that handguns can't be banned, GGJohn Oct 2015 #64

Unfortunately if what I read about where the guns came jwirr Oct 2015 #30

How do you control guns when there are already 300 million of them floating around the USA? Rex Oct 2015 #33

Stop new production is better than doing nothing. A decade of doing nothing Hoyt Oct 2015 #41

I am all for that. Rex Oct 2015 #46

Not going to happen. GGJohn Oct 2015 #66

The gun laws are highly manipulated by the gun lobby underpants Oct 2015 #37

It would help a lot IMHO Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2015 #158

IMO, the expansion of venues for guns is a kind of revanchism... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #213

It's a long hard one that isn't a clear-cut, left-right issue. It involves a holistic approach that Brickbat Oct 2015 #44

That is a good answer sarisataka Oct 2015 #60

Exactly. Brickbat Oct 2015 #101

Thank you for your sanity. pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #146

Thanks for providing those names -- looks like I've got some reading up to do. Brickbat Oct 2015 #169

You're very welcome. Here's a golden quote from James Wright....... pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #222

This is what I was looking for. LWolf Oct 2015 #160

It involves looking at institutions that seem to not have anything to do with our violent culture as Brickbat Oct 2015 #173

I could post about this every day all year. LWolf Oct 2015 #230

I support your stance as well.^^^ Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #214

"I'm ready to start having those difficult conversations." pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #225

Evolve an exoskeleton? JoePhilly Oct 2015 #49

Total confiscation. SheilaT Oct 2015 #50

So I'm guessing that you'll help with the house to house searchs? GGJohn Oct 2015 #68

Since all of the pious breast-beating SheilaT Oct 2015 #78

So how do you get around the 2A and the 4A? GGJohn Oct 2015 #80

Right. And meanwhile, aside from SheilaT Oct 2015 #83

No one disagrees with you here, it's just that you can't get around the 2A. leftofcool Oct 2015 #86

So if we can't get around the second amendment, SheilaT Oct 2015 #88

Okie dokie! leftofcool Oct 2015 #92

Hmmmm. Like the 21st amendment we could revise the 2nd amendment and add madinmaryland Oct 2015 #103

What do you think the chances are of GGJohn Oct 2015 #110

Your comments just show the sad shape this country is in. Absolutely pathetic. madinmaryland Oct 2015 #115

My comments reflect the reality of trying to repeal or amend the 2A, GGJohn Oct 2015 #119

Maybe if the GIC was not running the country, we would not talking talking about GG... madinmaryland Oct 2015 #123

GG was my handle when I was in the Army, GGJohn Oct 2015 #127

New Hampshire TeddyR Oct 2015 #118

I suppose Minnesota is included in your Etc. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #124

I guess we need to stop calling it gun control HassleCat Oct 2015 #52

Moawr Gunz! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #55

It could be an economic problem. Turbineguy Oct 2015 #61

.....There isn't one. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #63

You and your entire family wear body armor 24/7/365 workinclasszero Oct 2015 #69

I don't know what they think it is treestar Oct 2015 #71

End Hate Radio and Fox News MainSt99 Oct 2015 #84

Posted with a complete lack of self-awareness. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #144

That would be a good start workinclasszero Oct 2015 #148

Exactly...I wonder how much gun violence is connected to misogyny... randys1 Oct 2015 #155

Quite a bit of it, I'm sure. leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #183

Which may be why women is the fastest rising gun-owning demographic. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #218

So much for the 1st Amendment Lurks Often Oct 2015 #166

The answer is, yes, we must live with it. As long as the 2A exists LittleBlue Oct 2015 #91

Don't know the answer, but the cause is fear. Ron Green Oct 2015 #96

I like this answer... Lancero Oct 2015 #97

More guns, until it is happening every hour of every day Kelvin Mace Oct 2015 #104

As details about the shooter emerge, we will probably see the following... ck4829 Oct 2015 #107

I'm ready for biometrics in all guns and for ammo purchase. karadax Oct 2015 #109

What if we ponder the current anti-choice tactics? OneGrassRoot Oct 2015 #111

It does appear there is increasing violence with guns in the U.S., Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #117

Rolling Stone posted a great article tonight about the pro gun arguments they're sick of hearing Deadshot Oct 2015 #131

A complete ban is the answer mwrguy Oct 2015 #134

How would you enforce such a ban while staying within Constitutional boundaries? Ex Lurker Oct 2015 #136

No, it's not. eom. GGJohn Oct 2015 #139

Sure it is. geomon666 Oct 2015 #140

You're free to ban them from your home, GGJohn Oct 2015 #151

Not if I had my way. geomon666 Oct 2015 #196

Well then, I have nothing to worry about do I. GGJohn Oct 2015 #228

Nope geomon666 Oct 2015 #231

The odds of me being in the middle of a mass shooting are so GGJohn Oct 2015 #232

Yes, the odds are very small. geomon666 Oct 2015 #234

Not according to the FBI's UCR, GGJohn Oct 2015 #235

As far as I know the FBI doesn't track mass shootings or killings. geomon666 Oct 2015 #236

Their UCR tracks all firearms catagories, including suicides, GGJohn Oct 2015 #237

Yes, but not mass shootings or killings. geomon666 Oct 2015 #238

I won't dispute you on that, GGJohn Oct 2015 #239

Yes, I actually believe you geomon666 Oct 2015 #240

Thanks for the civil conversation, it's refreshing. GGJohn Oct 2015 #242

I always prefer a civil conversation over a shouting match. geomon666 Oct 2015 #243

Thank you. GGJohn Oct 2015 #244

Not necessarily. geomon666 Oct 2015 #247

And the more violent we become leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #141

Do what Australia did. It worked. Vinca Oct 2015 #147

Thats what pisses me off the most! workinclasszero Oct 2015 #149

Other countries don't have the equivalent of our 2A, GGJohn Oct 2015 #153

No one is stopping you from attempting to repeal or alter the Second Amendment. branford Oct 2015 #178

"Do we just live with the increasing violence............" pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #150

Easy, ammunition control....... bowens43 Oct 2015 #152

What's the question? No, really. Recursion Oct 2015 #156

Fuck gun control a ban on most types of guns is what is needed libtodeath Oct 2015 #157

I don't know, but I'm interested in LWolf Oct 2015 #159

As the president said, other countries have people with mental illness but they can control guns. CTyankee Oct 2015 #174

I don't think LWolf Oct 2015 #227

I think a society where mental health services are readily and cheaply available to all is a safer prayin4rain Oct 2015 #168

So you are blaming all of this on the 2A? leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #184

It seems gun nuts want everyone in the country armed ... LannyDeVaney Oct 2015 #185

New Direction for Limiting NRA influence Ollie Garchy Oct 2015 #187

The answer is a lengthy, multigenerational process Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2015 #192

Gun control is the answer. Iggo Oct 2015 #193

gun control is one answer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #194

An excellent question. But I don't think there is a one-size jwirr Oct 2015 #197

Address the root causes of violent behavior, not the tool used Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #198

Thanks for reminding me, Lee-Lee......... pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #223

Self-love is the answer. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #201

Arm EVERYBODY! Matrosov Oct 2015 #203

IMHO, for the mass shootings Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #206

Bullet control. Rex Oct 2015 #207

As he said, if bullets cost $5,000 we wouldn't have any "innocent bystanders." CTyankee Oct 2015 #229

The NRA solution is to equip every student with a high powered gun Kablooie Oct 2015 #210

Outlaw civilian ownership of semi-automatic weapons. n/t Doc_Technical Oct 2015 #215

What's your plan to get such a law passed, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #220

What's you plan for collecting those that give the finger to the Govt? GGJohn Oct 2015 #233

You really expect ideas from the gun nuts? liberal N proud Oct 2015 #226

The answer lies in the media jack_krass Oct 2015 #241

First we must agree on the question. What is the question? uppityperson Oct 2015 #245

Interesting questions ... Straw Man Oct 2015 #248