General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

61. How many firearms you believe the country or any individual "needs"

Sun Oct 4, 2015, 09:13 PM

Oct 2015

is completely irrelevant to any constitutional analysis.

So long as there exists in this country and right to keep and bear arms, it will be legal to manufacture and sell such arms to civilians.

The federal government and states could regulate firearm manufacture as any other consumer product so long as such regulation meets at least intermediate constitutional scrutiny, if not strict scrutiny. Without getting into an extended lesson in constitutional law, suffice to say a law or regulation expressly designed to discourage the exercise of a right, such as artificially attempting to limit the firearm supply in the country as you propose, will not pass constitutional muster. Neither will ancillary attacks on the right such as prohibiting or severely restricting the manufacture of ammunition or replacement parts.

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Maybe We Could Make It Illegal To Sell Guns Anymore [View all] LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 OP

No, it wouldn't pass constitutional muster, GGJohn Oct 2015 #1

How so? LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #3

Yes you would Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #6

The weapons aren't guaranteed, just the LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #9

The right to own one is Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #12

If you stop the sales of firearms, you are violating GGJohn Oct 2015 #15

They could still buy one from an LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #21

You can equivacate alll you want, GGJohn Oct 2015 #23

He is making tha same argument Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #22

I hadn't thought about that, GGJohn Oct 2015 #26

Where does "the people's right to acquire firearms" appear in the 2nd Amendment? Orrex Oct 2015 #81

You're missing the fact that it would be an unreasonable and unconstitutional restriction on GGJohn Oct 2015 #90

How so? Orrex Oct 2015 #92

And you couldn't buy a new firearm, which is an unreasonable restriction on the 2A, GGJohn Oct 2015 #93

How so? Where does the 2nd Amendment guarantee the right to buy or sell? Orrex Oct 2015 #96

The 2A guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms, GGJohn Oct 2015 #98

You keep asserting that as if it's established fact. I would like to know your reasoning. Orrex Oct 2015 #101

Ok, if all sales were banned, GGJohn Oct 2015 #108

Well, you could manufacture them, as many as you'd like Orrex Oct 2015 #118

I see where you're coming from, and I suppose one could go that route. GGJohn Oct 2015 #120

Well, one thing's certain, we've been far too civil about this, so I'll leave with an insult: Orrex Oct 2015 #123

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #129

Just to play devil's advocate, why would banning the sale of a product be unconstitutional, when MillennialDem Oct 2015 #110

From my reading of the OP's thread, he/she wants to stop all sales and manufacture of firearms. GGJohn Oct 2015 #113

I know, but that's not really what I asked. Just playing devil's advocate - what if guns were MillennialDem Oct 2015 #135

Good question. GGJohn Oct 2015 #137

At a minimum, to pass constitutional muster, the question must be asked branford Oct 2015 #138

If it was that simple it would have been tried long ago. [nt] Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #133

You could always make your own gun. So not selling them would not keep you from bearing one. nt kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #144

That's a possibility, with the advent of 3D printers, GGJohn Oct 2015 #147

Let's give it a try. Let's have Clinton sanders and O'Malley propose this yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #64

How about making the production of bullets illegal? Union Label Oct 2015 #142

That's a no go. GGJohn Oct 2015 #146

Prohibition worked well for alchohol and drugs... HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #2

I thought about that. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #5

The black market and Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #8

I think the ATF could be expanded LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #11

Yes that works so well for drugs. Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #13

There are things that could be tweaked LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #18

Nope Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #19

And you guys have been telling us you are law-abiding. Hoyt Oct 2015 #17

Just as much as you are Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #20

Nope, you remember me trying to make a point to gunners trying to rationalize killing people Hoyt Oct 2015 #36

I never said that so please Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #38

We are law abiding, I've never been convicted of any crime, never been arrested, GGJohn Oct 2015 #31

As long as you can keep accumulating more guns. Hoyt Oct 2015 #37

I assume me, GGJohn and everybody in this thread. would not be smuggling in guns Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #51

Local gang members aren't interested in shooting you, quit using that as a rationale to arm up. Hoyt Oct 2015 #56

Well said Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #57

That's right, as long as I remain a law abiding citizen, GGJohn Oct 2015 #58

Same here Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #40

Do you really think people are going to buy guns like they bought booze? MillennialDem Oct 2015 #107

Oregon shooter's mother reportedly... HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #116

Higher prices could be a barrier to a lot of mass shooters though. Not to mention the act of possess MillennialDem Oct 2015 #117

Gun sales spike at mention of gun-banning. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #119

I agree there will be a "run on the gun stores" if there is an impending ban or even just general MillennialDem Oct 2015 #134

Not all guns will be $2500. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #136

See reloading Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #126

Be kind of rough for new shooters to get in the market. ileus Oct 2015 #4

That's the point. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #7

So you would violate Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #10

They still have the right to get one. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #14

Interesting Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #16

I don't think guns and abortion have much LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #25

And except your argument is the same as the Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #32

Guns and abortion go hand in hand with fundies. It is the cycle of stupid. Rex Oct 2015 #34

How many more arsenals do we need? LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #46

I do not plan on any more Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #60

Well nobody is leaving in droves so the prevention in Finland is wrong yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #69

Hey, it's cold there. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #76

Kind of sounds like the same argument the Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #85

I have been there once. It's nice for sure. That was 5 years ago. yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #112

Do you know what the word "infringed" means? pipoman Oct 2015 #65

It means "bothered," basically. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #78

No it can't be made successfully pipoman Oct 2015 #80

Little things like that do not matter Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #87

Gun makers as manufacturers existed before the Constitution and statehoods. It won't happen. ancianita Oct 2015 #24

Yep Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #27

Maybe you're right. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #28

Gun manufacturing was status quo before the founding of the country. AND the two biggest ancianita Oct 2015 #33

Fear of gun-banning sells more guns. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #29

Notice how people freak out over that!? Rex Oct 2015 #30

Gee, I never "jizzed" when I blew shit up while I was in the Army. GGJohn Oct 2015 #35

Yeah me either. Rex Oct 2015 #39

Probably as we are called Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #42

Well you can self-identify with my words and make yourselves seem credible Rex Oct 2015 #44

Why do you label people? GGJohn Oct 2015 #48

Because not everyone that owns a gun is a hunter, did you not know this? Rex Oct 2015 #49

I try not to label people, although on occasion, I do, to my chagrin. GGJohn Oct 2015 #54

Do you worship the culture of death? Rex Oct 2015 #63

Your definition is quite different than Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #67

SO what? Is that my fault? Rex Oct 2015 #70

Of course not Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #82

Same here Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #41

Yep. GGJohn Oct 2015 #50

I would be now with some of the Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #62

I know. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #43

Ultimately you are trying to have a rational argument with irrational people. Rex Oct 2015 #45

I think a lot of them are basically anarchists. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #52

I agree and I think they mask that with claiming to be libertarians. Rex Oct 2015 #55

By refusal to seek facts most who want gun control pipoman Oct 2015 #71

Wrong. Rex Oct 2015 #72

Nope...the gun lobby told congressional and senate judiciary committees pipoman Oct 2015 #77

The right kind of gun culture should prevail. Look at societies that have per capita the same ancianita Oct 2015 #53

Well most of mine are Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #66

Each state even has its own official "state firearm." Try rescinding the 2A through the states ancianita Oct 2015 #47

.... pipoman Oct 2015 #59

How many firearms you believe the country or any individual "needs" branford Oct 2015 #61

The question is really how many guns are LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #68

Again, the number of guns in circulation is constitutionally irrelevant. branford Oct 2015 #73

Okay, then. We've got to start somewhere. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #79

Registration is a must should be stated on the back of drivers liscense Jim Beard Oct 2015 #74

That's a very good idea. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #84

So you want them to leave a weapon Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #91

Lock the car. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #94

Because locked cars have never been broken into or stolen right? eom. GGJohn Oct 2015 #99

I know, right Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #104

The illogic of otherwise intelligent people here is mind blowing, GGJohn Oct 2015 #111

And I am sure ther are and very nice people Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #114

No, I am not Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #100

I'm not going to argue with you about LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #106

I do not agree with open carry Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #109

Did you know that criminals are exempt from registration- because of the 5th Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #145

No, just tax the shit out of guns and ammunition. alarimer Oct 2015 #75

That would be just fine with me. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #86

The courts would strike that down as unconstitutional, GGJohn Oct 2015 #88

I have heard that mentioned before. Any mention would cause a stamped to the gun stores. Jim Beard Oct 2015 #89

Discouraging the hoarding of ammunition branford Oct 2015 #122

How do you shorten the shelf life of bullets? Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #127

How do you propose such a law on the sale of guns be passed in congress? Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #83

They're all bought by the gun lobby, too. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #97

I don't actually believe all politicians are bought by the gun lobby. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #102

Alcohol prohibition didin't work, marijuana prohibition didn't work... Initech Oct 2015 #95

I'm not talking about prohibition. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #103

But preventing sales is exactly prohibition, is it not? Initech Oct 2015 #105

Since it wouldn't affect the 300 million guns LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #115

The Constitution was specifically designed so that our government branford Oct 2015 #125

It's laughable that people compare newspapers LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #132

You're going to get a bunch of gun nuts showing up pretending... onehandle Oct 2015 #121

That's right. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #124

You mean the same one that gave us gay marriage Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #128

Facts and laws Hydra Oct 2015 #130

Sad nt Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #131

The Democratic Party Platform specifically states that the 2nd amendment is an individual right kelly1mm Oct 2015 #139

I haven't called anyone a gun nut in this thread. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #140

Exactly, there was no private firearm ownership before that ruling. ileus Oct 2015 #141

And maybe the pigs and I will fly tomorrow. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #143