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In reply to the discussion: Fuck it! I'm sick of pro gun arguments and advocates. [View all]Straw Man
(6,943 posts)125. Other ways.
Yes, there are many other ways to kill people: a hammer, a knife, a car, a bomb, etc. But almost anyone can go out and buy a gun and bullets and start shooting peoplein many states, on the same day. A bomb would have to be builtusing parts that are highly monitored by various federal agencies; using a car would take certain, specific conditions; and a hammer? A knife? Seriously? Comparing a high caliber, semi-automatic rifle to a hammer, or a even a knife for that matter, in terms of deadliness, is pretty damned absurd. Last time I checked we dont send our soldiers into battle with knives and hammers.
How about a book of matches and a couple of gallons of gasoline? 87 dead for less than the cost of a movie ticket:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/dozens-die-fire-illegal-bonx-social-club-1990-article-1.2152091
You might want to start asking why so many Americans want to kill large numbers of random strangers. If we could solve that riddle, we wouldn't have to waste time trying in vain to ghoul-proof our society by taking the figurative pointy scissors away from everybody.
By the way, the preponderance of gun deaths take place the old-fashioned way, one or two at a time, the same way knife and hammer deaths do. Mass shootings are a very small slice of the statistical pie. And the "high caliber semi-automatic rifle" that people seem convinced is the source of all our woes accounts for fewer killings per year than do hands, fists, and feet, per the FBI's stats. But it does make a convenient bugaboo.
Finally, I dont want to hear, as Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio said at the last debate, that passing more gun laws wont matter, because criminals wont follow those laws anyway. That is the most idiotic thing anyone ever thought up. Of course criminals will break lawsthats how we know theyre criminals. We have laws so we can penalize criminals for doing bad things.
I'm more than willing to indict Marco Rubio for idiocy, but your stated example is not part of that indictment. Gun control laws are clearly an attempt to make gun ownership more onerous for the law-abiding segments of society so as to social-engineer us toward the elusive goal of a gun-free society. I offer as evidence a few facts.
First, case-law has established that a convicted felon (in other words, a person legally barred from possessing a firearm) cannot be charged with failing to register a weapon in such jurisdictions where registration is the law; the requirement to register would violate his Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination. A person with no criminal record, however, could and would be charged for that same offense. Say what?
Second, gun charges are generally the first thing to be plea-bargained away for criminals facing multiple counts. I would say that this sends the wrong message. Wouldn't you?
Third, giving false statements on the Form 4473 when purchasing a firearm (like checking the "No" box when you actually are subject to a restraining order for domestic violence) is a felony and is easily verfiable by information in the federal database. Yet this is never prosecuted by the ATF, who apparently think it sufficient that the gun sale was denied. The felonious buyer rolls the dice and lies on the form, hoping that there's a glitch in the database. If there is, he gets his gun. If not, that's OK; he didn't get his gun, but he can walk away and try again tomorrow. Why have the penalty if it will never be invoked?
Are you starting to see a pattern here? Pass more laws, and the law-abiding will for the most part comply with them voluntarily: no large gain in public safety, since these aren't generally the people who cause problems in the first place. Criminals will, of course, ignore the laws, knowing that the consequences are few or none in the context of the overall pattern of their criminal behavior. Again, no net gain in public safety.
But maybe, just maybe, some law-abiding gun owners will get tired of jumping through the hoops and will stop buying guns. Or people with a vague interest will be deterred by the numerous obstacles. And then maybe after a few decades, or generations, or centuries, America will be a gun-free paradise -- except for the weapons that will still be in the hands of the cops, the criminal, and the paid protectors of the rich and powerful. Won't that be grand?
Cheers.
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I would think that possessing what is clearly an "instrument of death"
Proud Liberal Dem
Oct 2015
#150
Fell free to demonstrate the need for an assault weapons ban with actual research?
branford
Oct 2015
#156
Can't wait for the gunners telling us how "well regulated militia" doesn't mean what it says.
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#3
Those very words are missing from the plaque hailing 2A at NRA HQ....setting their lies in stone.
Fred Sanders
Oct 2015
#10
I know it cracks me up. I've seen a few gunners here post "militia" means all men under 47 years of
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#13
It does matter. The right wing Justices will he replaced unless the Gun Protection types help
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#85
It's called etymology Hoyt. Are you really that obtuse? Thick as oatmeal maybe? Militia c. 1777...
cherokeeprogressive
Oct 2015
#65
My guess is most of the gun fanciers here are no longer amenable for military duty, so turn em in.
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#82
That' your quote. Other gunners use the definition of "militia" that includes the age max 44-47
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#100
I gave you the fucking etymology of the word, circa the time the word was used. WITH a cite.
cherokeeprogressive
Oct 2015
#109
Such anger and guns don't mix. You should turn yours in, or at least lock them up for a few days.
Hoyt
Oct 2015
#119
Mine are always locked up. And they're unloaded. I'm not angry... I don't get angry at stupidity.
cherokeeprogressive
Oct 2015
#120
Remove the 2nd Amendment and we're in the exact same legal and political position we're in now
Recursion
Oct 2015
#5
When a black or Latino kid shot four classmates in 1993 the news didn't report it
Recursion
Oct 2015
#115
It happens to be true, your feelings on the matter notwithstanding:
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2015
#43
I'd like a dollar from the **many** you-know-who's who deny easily verifiable facts.
pablo_marmol
Oct 2015
#47
And, in fact, you've never been safer. A kid in school today is safer than you or I were
Recursion
Oct 2015
#116
Upon reflection, I don't think my first response was helpful. Let me elaborate.
CTyankee
Oct 2015
#117
In the language of the day "well regulated" meant "in good working order" or "well trained."
Maedhros
Oct 2015
#62
Let me re-post an earlier comment I made about the absurdity, illegality and ineffectiveness
branford
Oct 2015
#52
If you had to go to a "gun DMV" for a license (like you do for a car), the world would see how
valerief
Oct 2015
#22
Cuz they buy Congress. They probably also facilitate the illegal drug trade, which benefits
valerief
Oct 2015
#25
Skinner put the kibosh on your attempt at censorship, and told you to do what I told you to do:
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2015
#121
He sympathizes, but doesn't want a purge? A wise choice, given that...
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2015
#123
While you are waiting for Skinner's reply, here is a preview of coming attractions
hack89
Oct 2015
#69
You seem to have missed the many, many posts recommending banning guns here at DU:
friendly_iconoclast
Oct 2015
#44
Still don't understand why Skinner is allowing the NRA to post their crap on this site.
Jappleseed
Oct 2015
#118
Well unregister as a Democrat then, because the Democratic Party Platform *clearly supports*
Ghost in the Machine
Oct 2015
#146