General Discussion

Johonny

(26,090 posts)

40. education is not an investment it is a necessity

Thu May 24, 2012, 01:07 PM

May 2012

You need to know things. It is as essential to eating, breathing or shelter. You home isn't an investment, it's what keeps you from freezing in the summer. Og the caveman taught the next generation what it needed to know to survive in the world. Og the caveman taught them what to eat, how to find a cave for shelter, where the river was to drink in etc... People don't have many actual advantages as a species. Its main one is its amazing rapid ability to transfer information generation to generation. Stop that, and you are headed to extinction. Not investing in food means you starve, not investing in education means you also starve. Thus it is a necessity.

[cabinet has been debating putting water on the plants instead of Brawndo]
Pvt. Joe Bowers: What *are* these electrolytes? Do you even know?
Secretary of State: They're... what they use to make Brawndo!
Pvt. Joe Bowers: But *why* do they use them to make Brawndo?
Secretary of Defense: [raises hand after a pause] Because Brawndo's got electrolytes.

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It's not like people are forced to take student loans. [View all] RadiationTherapy May 2012 OP

Education is a human right, and it should be free to all comers. bemildred May 2012 #1

while I agree with you to some degree... ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #3

Who decides? bemildred May 2012 #5

so, why would anyone ever do any work ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #6

Yep, scary thought. bemildred May 2012 #9

what the fuck are you talking about? ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #14

"surely you can see the danger in that..." bemildred May 2012 #15

it is apparent that you have once again failed to grasp the point ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #17

The world would be fine The2ndWheel May 2012 #29

the Earth would be fine...indeed n/t ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #75

Most people work to get money. To eat and stuff like that. bemildred May 2012 #31

Unless they belong to the 1% FloridaJudy May 2012 #62

Indeed. bemildred May 2012 #66

hmmm...someone is going to have to work to supply ProdigalJunkMail May 2012 #76

False dichotomy. It is not an either/or choice, bemildred May 2012 #84

people might go to work so they can buy food, afford a place to live, maybe even go on vacation fishwax May 2012 #58

HA! +1 underseasurveyor May 2012 #156

Attending school doesn't pay an hourly wage or salary. underseasurveyor May 2012 #155

College should be free, as it is is quite a few countreis obamanut2012 May 2012 #7

Absolutely - we are doing the wrong kind of testing in this country. TBF May 2012 #10

Not really "free." Education in such countries is paid for through taxes as is health care CTyankee May 2012 #24

In countries where it is free they often restrict it based on highschool performance 4th law of robotics May 2012 #77

There's no such thing as "free" education, it's paid for via taxes. Johnny Rico May 2012 #88

This is not an actual problem. surrealAmerican May 2012 #96

That's what I don't get about people who argue everyone will become professional students. white_wolf May 2012 #111

Then teachers should instruct at no cost. dkf May 2012 #25

You do of course realize nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #63

Yes, though limited to ability treestar May 2012 #42

Of course, you still have to do the work. bemildred May 2012 #44

Yes!!!! nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #72

Age 37 is one thing frazzled May 2012 #2

This isn't a matter of opinion. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #4

Yes, but those first two and possibly the third are whole unknowns when a young person arrives. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #8

They're not unknowns to the school administration. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #18

The School Administration paid 6 figures and charged with growing the campus and the coffers? RadiationTherapy May 2012 #32

Then you chose "lifestyle purchase" lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #50

and if you research the earnings ahead of time magical thyme May 2012 #12

"that calculus" = "the results of your ROI calculation" sorry for the ambiguity. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #19

At what stage in life would a person's education include RadiationTherapy May 2012 #33

When I was in fifth grade, I knew that I could buy my friend's bike for $30 and resell it for $40. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #43

HAAAahahahahaha! I suspected as much. "I don't think with you" - RadiationTherapy May 2012 #45

Fine. But don't expect me to be inclined to absorb the costs of your choices. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #52

No, no, of course not. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #53

"jubilee" is exactly that. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #60

It is easy to see I am not advocating for that. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #64

What's the logical conclusion of holding people blameless for the loans they agreed to? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #67

It's quite complex don't you think? I don't have a "solution" nor RadiationTherapy May 2012 #70

Okay, we're getting somewhere. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #89

Ah, thanks for the textbook example nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #90

Did college entitle you to write your own textbooks? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #92

Funny nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #94

You said education was useless for its own sake. white_wolf May 2012 #102

And that college was mostly a scam. nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #105

I'm doing pretty good right now. white_wolf May 2012 #109

Visiting mom, getting home tomorrow nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #110

No, I said college is useless for it's own sake. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #116

"What I strongly disagree with is the notion that "education" is so valuable for its own sake..." white_wolf May 2012 #122

You're right. I fell into the convention of treating "college" and "education" as synonymous. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #125

ok. calculus actually is a requirement for many degrees magical thyme May 2012 #147

Now that the school knows the actual starting wage lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #148

the school already knew the starting wage magical thyme May 2012 #152

There are loads of careers that had outstanding growth projections in 2008, that are flattened now riderinthestorm May 2012 #16

No, it a game of chance with no rules and fewer facts from which to work. Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #37

education is not an investment it is a necessity Johonny May 2012 #40

And libraries are free. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #54

Gee, want to go see a dentist nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #112

I'm pretty confident that my dentist can afford his student loans. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #115

Knowing actual dentists and doctors nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #119

The average dentist makes $140,000+ annually. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #123

Not worth it nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #126

Being on dialyup Bohunk68 May 2012 #117

Okay. Free in the sense that sidewalks are "free". lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #120

We do invest in education 4th law of robotics May 2012 #78

Education is a national security and economic issue. aquart May 2012 #11

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #13

Either I misread the OP or you did? Ruby the Liberal May 2012 #69

I got my first degree in 1985 at age 23 hfojvt May 2012 #20

You are forced to take student loans unless you like flipping burgers DotGone May 2012 #21

College is the price you pay for the privilege of working cleanly, indoors. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #30

Pray tell what are these dirty unskilled jobs? DotGone May 2012 #56

Does college pay any better than any of those careers? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #68

Yes. jeff47 May 2012 #81

That's a line people keep repeating 4th law of robotics May 2012 #79

Trade schools still cost nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #97

I am aware 4th law of robotics May 2012 #98

Depends nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #103

I agree in general 4th law of robotics May 2012 #141

Alas this requires taxes nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #151

the other part is hfojvt May 2012 #143

And how long ago was that? Bake May 2012 #22

Costs for 2012 at the University of Illinois, a public state school for in-state undergrads is $30k riderinthestorm May 2012 #26

States have continually ratcheted down what they pay for colleges. Bake May 2012 #27

If the investment required to become a nurse can't be recouped in salary, why become a nurse? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #28

You probably do not realize this nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #38

My 19 y/o son is in a 2 year diesel tech class. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #49

Look at tuition for trades nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #59

No, I'm objecting to the assertion that college is somehow separable from economics. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #65

I guess we should not indulge our curiosity nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #93

If it's an important career, it pays enough to repay student loans. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #101

You mean like medicine? nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #107

Mind reading. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #114

Nope not mind reading nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #118

Macro: Colleges serve a useful purpose because they provide the social capacity to do things. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #127

Whoosh... nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #129

So wrong. Dance, music, art, literature? None of those pay enough but are incredibly important to riderinthestorm May 2012 #130

Yes, my "sweeping condemnation of anyone who doesn't work in a trade" is also a clarion cry lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #131

I'm not deluding myself that it's more important riderinthestorm May 2012 #132

No degree demonstrates that you can think. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #133

Cop out. I'll take it you have no serious answer. Good night nt riderinthestorm May 2012 #135

Sorry, you were asking a question? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #139

So nobody should be a doctor, nurse, road or bridge engineer, geologist, computer designer, riderinthestorm May 2012 #73

"People who enjoy what they do are typically the biggest innovators, the ones who truly create" lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #134

Who was in college when he was inspired. Exactly. riderinthestorm May 2012 #136

Maybe he "learned how to think" just from walking into the admissions office. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #137

I graduated this past December. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #34

Ah, I deduce you did not read my post, but only the title. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #35

My apologies. You did say that loans are a necessity. Bake May 2012 #39

No probs! RadiationTherapy May 2012 #46

Not to mention that colleges often don't provide basic information about the cost and amounts of the yellowcanine May 2012 #23

So many jobs need a degree SoutherDem May 2012 #36

It's part of a strategy treestar May 2012 #41

If you can't afford to go to college or don't WANT to take out a student loan snooper2 May 2012 #47

I find it suspicious you did not take an opportunity to list these "ways to make good money". RadiationTherapy May 2012 #48

Setting mobile homes, skirting snooper2 May 2012 #51

Thank you for this list. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #55

Computers joeglow3 May 2012 #57

Here's a few: 4th law of robotics May 2012 #80

It is a false choice, central to the college scam. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #91

I do not understand the thought processes of those who are happy with the current situation. stevenleser May 2012 #61

depends on what your idea of a "modern and complete education" is snooper2 May 2012 #74

That's pretty easy stevenleser May 2012 #86

Great definition. white_wolf May 2012 #106

What exactly is an "anti-education" poster? snooper2 May 2012 #140

And that is a sad thing, isn't it? stevenleser May 2012 #145

Oh ast week our guide to Puebla nadinbrzezinski May 2012 #153

As to your first sentence. white_wolf May 2012 #82

Here's the other side of the empathy coin. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #108

Very well thought out post. Here is why I disagree stevenleser May 2012 #144

The education that everyone needs to be a citizen = secondary education lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #149

In third world countries, people say the same thing about grade school. stevenleser May 2012 #150

You're still in Lake Woebegone. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #154

I believe they conspire but. raouldukelives May 2012 #71

work you ass off in High School blueamy66 May 2012 #83

After high school I was a scholarship earning physics/chemistry major. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #87

My father died when I was attending an expensive private college. grantcart May 2012 #85

Encouraging people to work random jobs 4th law of robotics May 2012 #99

well everyone is different. At 18 college was perfect for me. For some its not. grantcart May 2012 #100

Exactly. blueamy66 May 2012 #142

Sorry, but no, loans are NOT necessary - lynne May 2012 #95

Ever since Washington cancelled the Pell Grants VISA and MasterCard have been happy. Octafish May 2012 #104

Change "Forced" to "Compelled" and I can vote on this Motown_Johnny May 2012 #113

kick. good poll Liberal_in_LA May 2012 #121

just wondering ? Why stop 4 t 4 May 2012 #124

It isn't free. It is a collective choice of tax expenditure. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #128

unless you come from a fairly well-off family there are few other options ibegurpard May 2012 #138

forced versus "forced" aikoaiko May 2012 #146