General Discussion

branford

(4,462 posts)

68. I'm a litigation attorney, and a large part of my practice

Wed Oct 7, 2015, 12:25 AM

Oct 2015

includes insurance coverage and underwriting issues. I've also worked at the National Institute of Justice researching firearm-related matters (among other issues).

Would you care to actually discuss my concerns about the legality, practicality and politics of mandatory firearm insurance, or at least offer your qualifications to suggest my comments are "blather, off topic, and in-congruent."

Your desire for, or belief in, a particular gun control policy does not override the constitution, the nature of insurance in most of the world, actuarial data, or the obvious political impediments and ancillary effects.

Did you ever wonder why the mandatory insurance idea is popular among activists, but still has never been seriously considered in even strong gun control jurisdictions, including before SCOTUS decided Heller and McDonald?

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If your gun is used in a crime, you should be charged with a felony. [View all] whereisjustice Oct 2015 OP

That sure will cut down on straw purchases by honest gunners buying for the criminals. -none Oct 2015 #1

I don't think we do that with any other product JimDandy Oct 2015 #6

If you sell a car, MurrayDelph Oct 2015 #46

Guns are not like any other product. They are designed to kill. Period. Usually as efficiently whereisjustice Oct 2015 #74

Guns aren't designed to kill, they're designed to propel a projectile down a GGJohn Oct 2015 #78

Their original and functional purpose is to kill. target shooting is merely practice for it. bettyellen Oct 2015 #81

The OP said that guns are designed for one thing, that is to kill. GGJohn Oct 2015 #84

No, they were designed for killing/ maiming, and that is still their only function. bettyellen Oct 2015 #85

I already provided links proving you and the OP wrong. GGJohn Oct 2015 #87

Neo-confederate gun nuts, in the basement, clutching guns wating for end times, but bored whereisjustice Oct 2015 #92

This is getting better and better. GGJohn Oct 2015 #94

Look, if you didn't drop out of school to study guns, you'd understand that whereisjustice Oct 2015 #98

When you've resorted to silly insults, that means you've lost the debate. GGJohn Oct 2015 #101

I agree. While the idea may sound like it will solve some problems to some, it would be a total... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #135

Results... Major Nikon Oct 2015 #165

LOL, they are not "designed" by the person holding them. Get a dictionary. bettyellen Oct 2015 #167

Reading comprehension. GGJohn Oct 2015 #182

"Guns aren't designed to kill" is inaccurate. That is the function for which they were invented, silly. bettyellen Oct 2015 #183

Again, wrong. GGJohn Oct 2015 #184

repeating it doesn;t actually make you right, but it's funny to watch. bettyellen Oct 2015 #187

And you constantly repeating that I'm wrong doesn't mean you're right, GGJohn Oct 2015 #189

and again, John, it's you that is wrong because intent-in-design is not some nebulous concept... Chan790 Oct 2015 #194

Again, it's painfully simple, GGJohn Oct 2015 #196

It doesn't matter if *all* firearms are made for killing. Chan790 Oct 2015 #200

yes, functional items items are designed with intent as to the function. It's not a nose scratcher.. bettyellen Oct 2015 #201

Design intent is not a negligible concept. Chan790 Oct 2015 #191

You, too, are wrong......again. GGJohn Oct 2015 #193

Two things. Chan790 Oct 2015 #197

I'm well aware of wht "in the general sense" means. GGJohn Oct 2015 #199

Guns are designed to kill. They can also be used to shoot stuff. If your fancy gun whereisjustice Oct 2015 #83

No, they're not. GGJohn Oct 2015 #86

"designed to propel a projectile under pressure down a steel hollow tube" you mean like the shit the whereisjustice Oct 2015 #88

I notice that every time you get your ass handed to you, GGJohn Oct 2015 #91

And the NRA hasn't read the OP. Instead you show pictures of fancy guns. He thought he was fancy too whereisjustice Oct 2015 #95

Interesting screen name you got there. eom. GGJohn Oct 2015 #93

a question I like to ask the NRA about the slaughter they impose on America whereisjustice Oct 2015 #96

So, ask them. GGJohn Oct 2015 #97

I'll ask them here because they are here - penny a post or more? whereisjustice Oct 2015 #99

They are? GGJohn Oct 2015 #102

Do you really think guns would have been invented if there had been no need passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #110

I didn't say they were designed for sport, GGJohn Oct 2015 #111

Got it passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #117

How many gun fanciers would be happy with target shooters like that vs. ARs? Not many. Hoyt Oct 2015 #124

mine were designed to save lives... ileus Oct 2015 #132

Politics this blind is self-defeating. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #143

Anyone who makes a straw purchase for someone they know is ineligible ain't "honest." Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #162

If unsecured I agree. If secured then no. Same with your car? nt Logical Oct 2015 #2

when deiberate use of car for death is killing 80,000 deaths a year we can whereisjustice Oct 2015 #8

I think unsecured guns that hurt someone should be jail time. But if in a safe not an issue. nt Logical Oct 2015 #9

Nope, you own the gun - you secure it. If your safe is stolen or opened, you pay the price. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #18

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #20

You're in favor of criminalizing victims?! meow2u3 Oct 2015 #25

if you can't keep your gun safe, you pay the price. Gun isn't like a TV. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #100

if you can't keep your gun safe, you pay the price. GGJohn Oct 2015 #105

80,000 deaths a year? GGJohn Oct 2015 #11

When cars are designed, purchased to kill 80,000 a year we can change the subject to cars whereisjustice Oct 2015 #14

I asked where you got that 80,000 deaths a year? GGJohn Oct 2015 #16

I see he can't reference Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #53

I'm still trying to figure out where he got the 80,000 figure. GGJohn Oct 2015 #66

I think it's 5-6 hundred thousand now Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #72

Each year, guns in the US kill 3 times the entire US population. I read it on the internet - I think Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #137

I read somewhere that in 10 years Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #139

You say "USA" as if you are proud of it, then advocate pipoman Oct 2015 #29

and Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #27

Have you not seen how most people drive? Drahthaardogs Oct 2015 #13

Folks killed with guns are at least 3 times as dead as those killed by cars... TipTok Oct 2015 #70

um lancer78 Oct 2015 #116

Where does that number come from? whatthehey Oct 2015 #152

in the same vein DustyJoe Oct 2015 #3

When people steal cars to kill and injure 100,000 a year, we'll talk. Until then you are just whereisjustice Oct 2015 #5

lol DustyJoe Oct 2015 #17

"where is justice"....interesting pipoman Oct 2015 #33

Interesting - someone proposes sensible legislation to deal with irresponsible gun ownership whereisjustice Oct 2015 #104

No, what's interesting is someone with a screen name such as yours GGJohn Oct 2015 #106

No just another 'we otta' person without a clue pipoman Oct 2015 #107

And to think he accused me of dropping out of high school to study guns. GGJohn Oct 2015 #109

I am resigned to nothing changing any time soon... pipoman Oct 2015 #114

Just another gun nut too lazy and too weak to take care of their guns. After all whereisjustice Oct 2015 #134

I guess at least you acknowledge not knowing what you are talking about.. pipoman Oct 2015 #150

So lets talk... sarisataka Oct 2015 #37

Wait a minute Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #54

It will be 120,000 in a few minutes. n/t Waldorf Oct 2015 #60

There should be recorded title transfer for firearms alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #4

agreed DustyJoe Oct 2015 #161

I can see a problem with this. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #7

If her late husband is the owner. No. The point is moot. If she owns the gun, then whereisjustice Oct 2015 #10

If her husband is dead Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #12

Thank jesus in heaven your ideas of "whereisjustice" pipoman Oct 2015 #40

Gun owners are not responsible if they can't keep a reasonable inventory of their firearms alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #15

Exactly - gun owners are not mature enough to secure their weapons and take responsiblity whereisjustice Oct 2015 #19

I own firearms and have an inventory of everything I own with serial numbers and pictures. Waldorf Oct 2015 #63

I think the idea is really having more people use gun safes davidpdx Oct 2015 #122

So because a 70 year old woman in someone's fantasy, has her dead husbands gun stolen, -none Oct 2015 #24

Of course we should do something. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #38

she should turn in the gun if she doesn't want the responsibility. and register it in her own name bettyellen Oct 2015 #82

In many instances in the scenaeio I described, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #103

many times she doesn't even know its there belcffub Oct 2015 #147

well, if there were laws about it, they'd sure as shit stop treating it so carelessly.... bettyellen Oct 2015 #166

and then we can lock grandma up behind bars belcffub Oct 2015 #169

first we'd have to enact laws, and then she could do the right thing. and then maybe yahoos would bettyellen Oct 2015 #170

never said I was... belcffub Oct 2015 #173

more responsible gun ownership would be a problem? Okay, then..... bettyellen Oct 2015 #175

more responsible gun ownership is never a problem belcffub Oct 2015 #179

Which means the 85 to 90% of guns used in crimes were sold by good guys to bad guys. -none Oct 2015 #136

Insurance RobertEarl Oct 2015 #21

Mandatory insurance and gun safe gratuitous Oct 2015 #28

Very wise words, gratuitous RobertEarl Oct 2015 #52

Along with universal background checks and mental health screenings davidpdx Oct 2015 #123

I'm pretty sure every liablility insurance would have one of those fine print things that says they Waldorf Oct 2015 #31

You miss the point RobertEarl Oct 2015 #48

So the idea is to inconvenience the very gun owners least likely to cause harm. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #163

it's not about safety, it's about punishing owners. ileus Oct 2015 #133

Back to a poll tax once again..... [nt] Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #35

The NRA as the victim? Ironic. NRA taking responsiblity for their guns? Priceless. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #62

Mandatory firearm insurance is a non-starter. branford Oct 2015 #36

Only outlaws would not have insurance RobertEarl Oct 2015 #45

His "poll tax" argument is actually the most compelling. jonno99 Oct 2015 #64

Too expensive? RobertEarl Oct 2015 #71

I'm a litigation attorney, and a large part of my practice branford Oct 2015 #68

Yea, fuck the NRA RobertEarl Oct 2015 #75

Ah, "fuck the NRA," branford Oct 2015 #108

Good RobertEarl Oct 2015 #113

You're still not listening. branford Oct 2015 #115

Answer this RobertEarl Oct 2015 #118

Even if it was practical and legal, branford Oct 2015 #119

It gets even better. Straw Man Oct 2015 #120

I personally would be willing to consider a number of compromises branford Oct 2015 #121

Agreed TeddyR Oct 2015 #160

Good option, keep in mind what I am proposing is no violation of 2nd amendment either whereisjustice Oct 2015 #44

Criminal penalty is hard to do RobertEarl Oct 2015 #56

But there is still nothing to prevent the mom who thinks giving their kid their gun teaches them whereisjustice Oct 2015 #61

It would be a civil case? RobertEarl Oct 2015 #90

For someone with your screen name, GGJohn Oct 2015 #195

My guns are already insured for theft, fire, and accidental discharge through our homeowner's ins. NickB79 Oct 2015 #156

Unless the policy had particular exclusions or riders, branford Oct 2015 #168

Because we need more people in prison. Prison is always the answer mucifer Oct 2015 #22

Sorry, totally disagree with you on the stolen part. Waldorf Oct 2015 #23

A responsible gun owner should know where all of his guns are at all times Orrex Oct 2015 #34

Sounds good but let me ask you this. Do you have stuff around the house that you haven't used Waldorf Oct 2015 #49

Yes I do, but... Orrex Oct 2015 #58

Part of your proposal is unclear to me: would the $1000/$5000 fine automatically petronius Oct 2015 #26

If you lose the gun, you disclose. The incentive of later jail should encourage disclosure whereisjustice Oct 2015 #39

You do realize that these bizarre fantasies of yours pipoman Oct 2015 #42

But where does the fine come in? petronius Oct 2015 #51

You pay the fine when the theft is reported. In fact, I'd add this whereisjustice Oct 2015 #55

Methinks you'll have to get rid of that pesky 2A before your police-state fantasies could ever jonno99 Oct 2015 #67

Nope, no change to existing laws regarding ownership. No 2A problem. Just as a felon cannot whereisjustice Oct 2015 #79

"if your gun is used in a crime, you become a felon." Sorry, at best someone could be jonno99 Oct 2015 #181

The weapon needs to be reported stolen and/or recovered world wide wally Oct 2015 #30

Apparantly we have many worried people here who expect to lose their guns... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #32

Thanks for the entertaining thread. pintobean Oct 2015 #47

What to think of someone who thinks this topic is entertaining...? Perhaps NRA would be the whereisjustice Oct 2015 #57

Would you be able to qualify? pintobean Oct 2015 #59

duplicate whereisjustice Oct 2015 #65

Yes, of course. In my case the test is easy... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #69

That wasn't the question pintobean Oct 2015 #73

No, I'm just not going to get trapped in a childish contest with you. NRA should prove they are whereisjustice Oct 2015 #76

Pffft pintobean Oct 2015 #77

NRA wants everyone to get screened but not gun owners? Can't blame NRA, most are nuts. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #80

Pure comedy gold. GGJohn Oct 2015 #89

Proposing that we punish crime victims pintobean Oct 2015 #127

If a gun under your control is used in a murder, you think you should get a reward for that? whereisjustice Oct 2015 #128

You're seeing things, now. pintobean Oct 2015 #130

stolen property not reported stolen is under your control. I think the victims are dead, whereisjustice Oct 2015 #131

"stolen property not reported stolen is under your control" NickB79 Oct 2015 #157

Especially if you're the one using it. egduj Oct 2015 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #43

Worst thing I've heard recently is giving your emotionally disturbed kids access to guns whereisjustice Oct 2015 #50

Daddies think guns, shooting silhouette targets the resemble people, etc., builds character in kids. Hoyt Oct 2015 #125

I shoot silhouette targets. oneshooter Oct 2015 #142

8 year old should have been ARMED. And 11 year old should get capital murder charge... lostnfound Oct 2015 #112

There should definitely be some tough penalties for not being the mythical "responsible" gun owner. Hoyt Oct 2015 #126

How about we just go after heavy firearms and machine guns romanic Oct 2015 #129

What are "heavy fire arms"? oneshooter Oct 2015 #145

Or if they mean those that fire powerful cartridges... Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #164

How about my 45/70 Govt.and 50/90 Sharps. oneshooter Oct 2015 #176

Definitely some "heavy metal!" Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #178

I'll see your 45/70 sarisataka Oct 2015 #185

I'll see your .416 Remington Magnum, GGJohn Oct 2015 #188

Check sarisataka Oct 2015 #190

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #192

A gun owner who lets his gun fall into the hands of a criminal isn't responsible. The fear from gun whereisjustice Oct 2015 #148

something has to be done to change a common wrong olddots Oct 2015 #138

And also your car!! Because of course as a car owner you are responsible for its misuse??? Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #140

When people start buying cars to kill other people, we can talk about cars. The topic isn't cars whereisjustice Oct 2015 #141

But almost no one actually buys a gun to kill other people. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #144

People buy guns to kill other people. Lethal force is only purpose. Gun companies brag about whereisjustice Oct 2015 #149

People buy guns to kill other people? GGJohn Oct 2015 #153

300 million guns in America. 10 billion rounds of ammo. NickB79 Oct 2015 #159

really ????? DustyJoe Oct 2015 #174

Don't forget the sour cream and peppers. n/t oneshooter Oct 2015 #177

When someone tries to tell you a gun and a car are the same things... you know you are whereisjustice Oct 2015 #146

When someone like yoursellf, with a screen name like yours, GGJohn Oct 2015 #151

I believe the Shoshone had a law along those lines Recursion Oct 2015 #154

So... Krytan11c Oct 2015 #155

This has already been discussed in legal circles, and mostly abandoned NickB79 Oct 2015 #158

And if someone steals your car and uses it in a bank robbery or murder, mmonk Oct 2015 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author Bonx Oct 2015 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Oct 2015 #172

I'm in favor of drastically reducing the number of guns and think the NRA is worthless mythology Oct 2015 #186

Scenario... TipTok Oct 2015 #198

In a real sense you bear responsibility for the weapon...its yours. Historic NY Oct 2015 #202