General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,959 posts)

120. It gets even better.

Wed Oct 7, 2015, 04:00 AM

Oct 2015

I don't know if you're aware of it, but there is case law to the effect that requiring felons to register guns violates their Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination. Registering it would require them to confess to the crime of possessing it; a felon can be charged with unlawful possession of a weapon, but not with failure to register that weapon. A mandatory insurance law would similarly only cover people whose possession of the firearm was otherwise perfectly legal -- i.e. law-abiding citizens whose only crime was a failure to insure their guns. Hard to see how that is going to make society much safer.

That said, let's enter into this in a spirit of compromise. OK, I'll gladly trade mandatory gun insurance for fifty-state concealed-carry reciprocity. Let's not do a federal CCW permit, but instead pass a federal law requiring all states to recognize each other's CCWs. Isn't something similar already the case with driver's licenses?

Any takers?

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If your gun is used in a crime, you should be charged with a felony. [View all] whereisjustice Oct 2015 OP

That sure will cut down on straw purchases by honest gunners buying for the criminals. -none Oct 2015 #1

I don't think we do that with any other product JimDandy Oct 2015 #6

If you sell a car, MurrayDelph Oct 2015 #46

Guns are not like any other product. They are designed to kill. Period. Usually as efficiently whereisjustice Oct 2015 #74

Guns aren't designed to kill, they're designed to propel a projectile down a GGJohn Oct 2015 #78

Their original and functional purpose is to kill. target shooting is merely practice for it. bettyellen Oct 2015 #81

The OP said that guns are designed for one thing, that is to kill. GGJohn Oct 2015 #84

No, they were designed for killing/ maiming, and that is still their only function. bettyellen Oct 2015 #85

I already provided links proving you and the OP wrong. GGJohn Oct 2015 #87

Neo-confederate gun nuts, in the basement, clutching guns wating for end times, but bored whereisjustice Oct 2015 #92

This is getting better and better. GGJohn Oct 2015 #94

Look, if you didn't drop out of school to study guns, you'd understand that whereisjustice Oct 2015 #98

When you've resorted to silly insults, that means you've lost the debate. GGJohn Oct 2015 #101

I agree. While the idea may sound like it will solve some problems to some, it would be a total... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #135

Results... Major Nikon Oct 2015 #165

LOL, they are not "designed" by the person holding them. Get a dictionary. bettyellen Oct 2015 #167

Reading comprehension. GGJohn Oct 2015 #182

"Guns aren't designed to kill" is inaccurate. That is the function for which they were invented, silly. bettyellen Oct 2015 #183

Again, wrong. GGJohn Oct 2015 #184

repeating it doesn;t actually make you right, but it's funny to watch. bettyellen Oct 2015 #187

And you constantly repeating that I'm wrong doesn't mean you're right, GGJohn Oct 2015 #189

and again, John, it's you that is wrong because intent-in-design is not some nebulous concept... Chan790 Oct 2015 #194

Again, it's painfully simple, GGJohn Oct 2015 #196

It doesn't matter if *all* firearms are made for killing. Chan790 Oct 2015 #200

yes, functional items items are designed with intent as to the function. It's not a nose scratcher.. bettyellen Oct 2015 #201

Design intent is not a negligible concept. Chan790 Oct 2015 #191

You, too, are wrong......again. GGJohn Oct 2015 #193

Two things. Chan790 Oct 2015 #197

I'm well aware of wht "in the general sense" means. GGJohn Oct 2015 #199

Guns are designed to kill. They can also be used to shoot stuff. If your fancy gun whereisjustice Oct 2015 #83

No, they're not. GGJohn Oct 2015 #86

"designed to propel a projectile under pressure down a steel hollow tube" you mean like the shit the whereisjustice Oct 2015 #88

I notice that every time you get your ass handed to you, GGJohn Oct 2015 #91

And the NRA hasn't read the OP. Instead you show pictures of fancy guns. He thought he was fancy too whereisjustice Oct 2015 #95

Interesting screen name you got there. eom. GGJohn Oct 2015 #93

a question I like to ask the NRA about the slaughter they impose on America whereisjustice Oct 2015 #96

So, ask them. GGJohn Oct 2015 #97

I'll ask them here because they are here - penny a post or more? whereisjustice Oct 2015 #99

They are? GGJohn Oct 2015 #102

Do you really think guns would have been invented if there had been no need passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #110

I didn't say they were designed for sport, GGJohn Oct 2015 #111

Got it passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #117

How many gun fanciers would be happy with target shooters like that vs. ARs? Not many. Hoyt Oct 2015 #124

mine were designed to save lives... ileus Oct 2015 #132

Politics this blind is self-defeating. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #143

Anyone who makes a straw purchase for someone they know is ineligible ain't "honest." Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #162

If unsecured I agree. If secured then no. Same with your car? nt Logical Oct 2015 #2

when deiberate use of car for death is killing 80,000 deaths a year we can whereisjustice Oct 2015 #8

I think unsecured guns that hurt someone should be jail time. But if in a safe not an issue. nt Logical Oct 2015 #9

Nope, you own the gun - you secure it. If your safe is stolen or opened, you pay the price. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #18

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #20

You're in favor of criminalizing victims?! meow2u3 Oct 2015 #25

if you can't keep your gun safe, you pay the price. Gun isn't like a TV. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #100

if you can't keep your gun safe, you pay the price. GGJohn Oct 2015 #105

80,000 deaths a year? GGJohn Oct 2015 #11

When cars are designed, purchased to kill 80,000 a year we can change the subject to cars whereisjustice Oct 2015 #14

I asked where you got that 80,000 deaths a year? GGJohn Oct 2015 #16

I see he can't reference Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #53

I'm still trying to figure out where he got the 80,000 figure. GGJohn Oct 2015 #66

I think it's 5-6 hundred thousand now Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #72

Each year, guns in the US kill 3 times the entire US population. I read it on the internet - I think Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #137

I read somewhere that in 10 years Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #139

You say "USA" as if you are proud of it, then advocate pipoman Oct 2015 #29

and Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #27

Have you not seen how most people drive? Drahthaardogs Oct 2015 #13

Folks killed with guns are at least 3 times as dead as those killed by cars... TipTok Oct 2015 #70

um lancer78 Oct 2015 #116

Where does that number come from? whatthehey Oct 2015 #152

in the same vein DustyJoe Oct 2015 #3

When people steal cars to kill and injure 100,000 a year, we'll talk. Until then you are just whereisjustice Oct 2015 #5

lol DustyJoe Oct 2015 #17

"where is justice"....interesting pipoman Oct 2015 #33

Interesting - someone proposes sensible legislation to deal with irresponsible gun ownership whereisjustice Oct 2015 #104

No, what's interesting is someone with a screen name such as yours GGJohn Oct 2015 #106

No just another 'we otta' person without a clue pipoman Oct 2015 #107

And to think he accused me of dropping out of high school to study guns. GGJohn Oct 2015 #109

I am resigned to nothing changing any time soon... pipoman Oct 2015 #114

Just another gun nut too lazy and too weak to take care of their guns. After all whereisjustice Oct 2015 #134

I guess at least you acknowledge not knowing what you are talking about.. pipoman Oct 2015 #150

So lets talk... sarisataka Oct 2015 #37

Wait a minute Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #54

It will be 120,000 in a few minutes. n/t Waldorf Oct 2015 #60

There should be recorded title transfer for firearms alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #4

agreed DustyJoe Oct 2015 #161

I can see a problem with this. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #7

If her late husband is the owner. No. The point is moot. If she owns the gun, then whereisjustice Oct 2015 #10

If her husband is dead Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #12

Thank jesus in heaven your ideas of "whereisjustice" pipoman Oct 2015 #40

Gun owners are not responsible if they can't keep a reasonable inventory of their firearms alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #15

Exactly - gun owners are not mature enough to secure their weapons and take responsiblity whereisjustice Oct 2015 #19

I own firearms and have an inventory of everything I own with serial numbers and pictures. Waldorf Oct 2015 #63

I think the idea is really having more people use gun safes davidpdx Oct 2015 #122

So because a 70 year old woman in someone's fantasy, has her dead husbands gun stolen, -none Oct 2015 #24

Of course we should do something. Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #38

she should turn in the gun if she doesn't want the responsibility. and register it in her own name bettyellen Oct 2015 #82

In many instances in the scenaeio I described, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #103

many times she doesn't even know its there belcffub Oct 2015 #147

well, if there were laws about it, they'd sure as shit stop treating it so carelessly.... bettyellen Oct 2015 #166

and then we can lock grandma up behind bars belcffub Oct 2015 #169

first we'd have to enact laws, and then she could do the right thing. and then maybe yahoos would bettyellen Oct 2015 #170

never said I was... belcffub Oct 2015 #173

more responsible gun ownership would be a problem? Okay, then..... bettyellen Oct 2015 #175

more responsible gun ownership is never a problem belcffub Oct 2015 #179

Which means the 85 to 90% of guns used in crimes were sold by good guys to bad guys. -none Oct 2015 #136

Insurance RobertEarl Oct 2015 #21

Mandatory insurance and gun safe gratuitous Oct 2015 #28

Very wise words, gratuitous RobertEarl Oct 2015 #52

Along with universal background checks and mental health screenings davidpdx Oct 2015 #123

I'm pretty sure every liablility insurance would have one of those fine print things that says they Waldorf Oct 2015 #31

You miss the point RobertEarl Oct 2015 #48

So the idea is to inconvenience the very gun owners least likely to cause harm. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #163

it's not about safety, it's about punishing owners. ileus Oct 2015 #133

Back to a poll tax once again..... [nt] Ichigo Kurosaki Oct 2015 #35

The NRA as the victim? Ironic. NRA taking responsiblity for their guns? Priceless. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #62

Mandatory firearm insurance is a non-starter. branford Oct 2015 #36

Only outlaws would not have insurance RobertEarl Oct 2015 #45

His "poll tax" argument is actually the most compelling. jonno99 Oct 2015 #64

Too expensive? RobertEarl Oct 2015 #71

I'm a litigation attorney, and a large part of my practice branford Oct 2015 #68

Yea, fuck the NRA RobertEarl Oct 2015 #75

Ah, "fuck the NRA," branford Oct 2015 #108

Good RobertEarl Oct 2015 #113

You're still not listening. branford Oct 2015 #115

Answer this RobertEarl Oct 2015 #118

Even if it was practical and legal, branford Oct 2015 #119

It gets even better. Straw Man Oct 2015 #120

I personally would be willing to consider a number of compromises branford Oct 2015 #121

Agreed TeddyR Oct 2015 #160

Good option, keep in mind what I am proposing is no violation of 2nd amendment either whereisjustice Oct 2015 #44

Criminal penalty is hard to do RobertEarl Oct 2015 #56

But there is still nothing to prevent the mom who thinks giving their kid their gun teaches them whereisjustice Oct 2015 #61

It would be a civil case? RobertEarl Oct 2015 #90

For someone with your screen name, GGJohn Oct 2015 #195

My guns are already insured for theft, fire, and accidental discharge through our homeowner's ins. NickB79 Oct 2015 #156

Unless the policy had particular exclusions or riders, branford Oct 2015 #168

Because we need more people in prison. Prison is always the answer mucifer Oct 2015 #22

Sorry, totally disagree with you on the stolen part. Waldorf Oct 2015 #23

A responsible gun owner should know where all of his guns are at all times Orrex Oct 2015 #34

Sounds good but let me ask you this. Do you have stuff around the house that you haven't used Waldorf Oct 2015 #49

Yes I do, but... Orrex Oct 2015 #58

Part of your proposal is unclear to me: would the $1000/$5000 fine automatically petronius Oct 2015 #26

If you lose the gun, you disclose. The incentive of later jail should encourage disclosure whereisjustice Oct 2015 #39

You do realize that these bizarre fantasies of yours pipoman Oct 2015 #42

But where does the fine come in? petronius Oct 2015 #51

You pay the fine when the theft is reported. In fact, I'd add this whereisjustice Oct 2015 #55

Methinks you'll have to get rid of that pesky 2A before your police-state fantasies could ever jonno99 Oct 2015 #67

Nope, no change to existing laws regarding ownership. No 2A problem. Just as a felon cannot whereisjustice Oct 2015 #79

"if your gun is used in a crime, you become a felon." Sorry, at best someone could be jonno99 Oct 2015 #181

The weapon needs to be reported stolen and/or recovered world wide wally Oct 2015 #30

Apparantly we have many worried people here who expect to lose their guns... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #32

Thanks for the entertaining thread. pintobean Oct 2015 #47

What to think of someone who thinks this topic is entertaining...? Perhaps NRA would be the whereisjustice Oct 2015 #57

Would you be able to qualify? pintobean Oct 2015 #59

duplicate whereisjustice Oct 2015 #65

Yes, of course. In my case the test is easy... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #69

That wasn't the question pintobean Oct 2015 #73

No, I'm just not going to get trapped in a childish contest with you. NRA should prove they are whereisjustice Oct 2015 #76

Pffft pintobean Oct 2015 #77

NRA wants everyone to get screened but not gun owners? Can't blame NRA, most are nuts. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #80

Pure comedy gold. GGJohn Oct 2015 #89

Proposing that we punish crime victims pintobean Oct 2015 #127

If a gun under your control is used in a murder, you think you should get a reward for that? whereisjustice Oct 2015 #128

You're seeing things, now. pintobean Oct 2015 #130

stolen property not reported stolen is under your control. I think the victims are dead, whereisjustice Oct 2015 #131

"stolen property not reported stolen is under your control" NickB79 Oct 2015 #157

Especially if you're the one using it. egduj Oct 2015 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #43

Worst thing I've heard recently is giving your emotionally disturbed kids access to guns whereisjustice Oct 2015 #50

Daddies think guns, shooting silhouette targets the resemble people, etc., builds character in kids. Hoyt Oct 2015 #125

I shoot silhouette targets. oneshooter Oct 2015 #142

8 year old should have been ARMED. And 11 year old should get capital murder charge... lostnfound Oct 2015 #112

There should definitely be some tough penalties for not being the mythical "responsible" gun owner. Hoyt Oct 2015 #126

How about we just go after heavy firearms and machine guns romanic Oct 2015 #129

What are "heavy fire arms"? oneshooter Oct 2015 #145

Or if they mean those that fire powerful cartridges... Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #164

How about my 45/70 Govt.and 50/90 Sharps. oneshooter Oct 2015 #176

Definitely some "heavy metal!" Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #178

I'll see your 45/70 sarisataka Oct 2015 #185

I'll see your .416 Remington Magnum, GGJohn Oct 2015 #188

Check sarisataka Oct 2015 #190

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #192

A gun owner who lets his gun fall into the hands of a criminal isn't responsible. The fear from gun whereisjustice Oct 2015 #148

something has to be done to change a common wrong olddots Oct 2015 #138

And also your car!! Because of course as a car owner you are responsible for its misuse??? Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #140

When people start buying cars to kill other people, we can talk about cars. The topic isn't cars whereisjustice Oct 2015 #141

But almost no one actually buys a gun to kill other people. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #144

People buy guns to kill other people. Lethal force is only purpose. Gun companies brag about whereisjustice Oct 2015 #149

People buy guns to kill other people? GGJohn Oct 2015 #153

300 million guns in America. 10 billion rounds of ammo. NickB79 Oct 2015 #159

really ????? DustyJoe Oct 2015 #174

Don't forget the sour cream and peppers. n/t oneshooter Oct 2015 #177

When someone tries to tell you a gun and a car are the same things... you know you are whereisjustice Oct 2015 #146

When someone like yoursellf, with a screen name like yours, GGJohn Oct 2015 #151

I believe the Shoshone had a law along those lines Recursion Oct 2015 #154

So... Krytan11c Oct 2015 #155

This has already been discussed in legal circles, and mostly abandoned NickB79 Oct 2015 #158

And if someone steals your car and uses it in a bank robbery or murder, mmonk Oct 2015 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author Bonx Oct 2015 #180

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Oct 2015 #172

I'm in favor of drastically reducing the number of guns and think the NRA is worthless mythology Oct 2015 #186

Scenario... TipTok Oct 2015 #198

In a real sense you bear responsibility for the weapon...its yours. Historic NY Oct 2015 #202