General Discussion

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)

166. Illegal immigration is extremely low on my list of priorities

Mon Oct 12, 2015, 07:43 PM

Oct 2015

However, the principle remains the same: it's usually about the money.

Illegal immigration is one of those issues. Republicans politicians like to use it as a wedge issue (which is brilliant, because they can't vote), but don't actually care about it, because most large campaign donors don't want them to. So even if e-verify itself is a joke (I don't know, because I've been out of the small business sector for quite awhile and thus do no hiring), if the powers that be actually wanted to do something, they would. They could fix electronic verification -- or at least tighten up on it -- and drastically increase the penalties for businesses that knowingly or negligently hire illegals.

That's where I think the similarity to gun control and failed background checks come in. I think politicians want the laws on the books so they can satisfy voters -- even the most conservative voters don't want felons and the mentally ill carrying -- but the ATF and federal prosecutors don't enforce existing laws as stingingly as they could because that would upset the industry groups that control the money.

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Gun enthusiasts and the rush to buy guns after a mass shooting: Please don't shift the blame. [View all] Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 OP

You know why this happens each and every time, don't you? LAGC Oct 2015 #1

Except there's never, ever, ever, ever been any sort of legislative proposal to ban all guns. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #2

I'm not in disagreement, my friend. LAGC Oct 2015 #4

So what you're saying is that gun buyers are too stupid to act reasonably? flamin lib Oct 2015 #6

Pretty much. LAGC Oct 2015 #7

If we could do that, there would be few left in Congress. -none Oct 2015 #20

Agreed. LAGC Oct 2015 #24

Do you have insight, as an FFL holder? sarisataka Oct 2015 #9

Possibility: The huge sales may be a collective middle finger to the Prohibitionists. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #57

In some jurisdictions, Hangingon Oct 2015 #73

It is the free market at work. They are buying the guns to resale them when they are banned. LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #152

Gun nuts are motivated by irrational fear, including the fear of legislation that is not imminent. LonePirate Oct 2015 #101

Statements like the one below don't help "moderate" fun control efforts. branford Oct 2015 #109

Freudian slip much? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #111

You indeed have identified a typo. I guess the debate over firearms in the country is now over... branford Oct 2015 #113

I'll comment - she was talking specifically about assault weapons, jmg257 Oct 2015 #129

There's reality and there's idealized action. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #130

I don't fear anything Boudica the Lyoness Oct 2015 #146

If you weren't fearful about something, then you would not need a gun, especially to sort out things LonePirate Oct 2015 #147

You got it arse backwards. Boudica the Lyoness Oct 2015 #149

Yeah, it's pretty awful in the UK. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #148

I suppose you have lived there. Boudica the Lyoness Oct 2015 #150

And yet the murder rate there is still significantly lower. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #151

I saw this today and thought of you. Boudica the Lyoness Oct 2015 #154

WOW!!!!! YOU'RE KIDDING ME!!!!! THEY HAVE CRIME IN THE UK?!?!?!!? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #158

It's illegal everywhere to set booby traps, for the record Nevernose Oct 2015 #155

That emotional knee-jerk response though is "THEY'LL BAN ALL GUNS!!" Gormy Cuss Oct 2015 #141

You hit the nail on the head. Boudica the Lyoness Oct 2015 #144

Repeal the 2005 Arms Act soryang Oct 2015 #3

Sorry, but you can't sue the firearm man. for the criminal or negligent misuse of their legal GGJohn Oct 2015 #13

The particular problem isn't the manufacturers, IMO Nevernose Oct 2015 #156

Thank you. GGJohn Oct 2015 #157

Follow the money Nevernose Oct 2015 #159

You have a good point there. eom. GGJohn Oct 2015 #160

E-verify is a joke. Every Hispanic employee I've hired has a valid SS # riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #163

Illegal immigration is extremely low on my list of priorities Nevernose Oct 2015 #166

Yeah TeddyR Oct 2015 #52

The act is fine and was needed because groups were filing frivilous lawsuits trying to bankrupt Waldorf Oct 2015 #92

If a car model were found to launch projectiles at the speed of sound Orrex Oct 2015 #135

I never heard of a tank manufacturer being sued because tanks launch projectiles. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #137

But that is its purpose LittleBlue Oct 2015 #145

What blame? Guns are a legal product. pintobean Oct 2015 #5

I recall post Sandy Hook and the lines at gun stores and the heavy ads for guns and gun shows. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #8

The parking lot of the gun store up the street pintobean Oct 2015 #15

This, and countless mass shootings before, represents a clear policy failure. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #18

Good luck with that, Tommy pintobean Oct 2015 #22

Actually, the panic buyers are almost always new gun owners Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #10

Either way, it's ghoulish. nt Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #11

Then the # of gun owners in this country must be going up BeyondGeography Oct 2015 #32

See FOID issuance in Illinois. beevul Oct 2015 #44

Only it's not happening.... ileus Oct 2015 #12

There clearly was a rush after Sandy Hook. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #14

I was talking about last weeks, SH I know was crazy... ileus Oct 2015 #23

The rush after Sandy Hook... Kotya Oct 2015 #40

Interesting post. I would only add that there was little sentiment for a ban... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #63

My explanation: MSM and anti-gun spokespersons backed off in a hurry... Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #61

In terms of the political process, you could argue that. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #64

Thanks, Doctor Carcetti... Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #16

They do it for the same reason as people who bought/hoarded incandescent light bulbs. aikoaiko Oct 2015 #17

"They are not buying them.....because a similar type was used in a crime." Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #19

The massive attempt to ban them from future sales I.e. AWB 2013 aikoaiko Oct 2015 #21

It was introduced on January 24, 2013. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #25

There was a slight increase prior to the massacre as the President campaigned on renewing the AWB aikoaiko Oct 2015 #29

I think people bought them because there was Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #30

These nimrods keep pushing the meme that we're after everyone's guns. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #26

No matter what way to cut it though, they can't excuse themselves. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #27

Brain-washed. No other explanation. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #28

How do you know they are all hunters? Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #33

I have no idea where you're going with that question. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #36

Nimrod is from the Old Testament, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #38

I got lucky with that "Nimrod" remark. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #41

Read many of the latest post-shooting threads? Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #34

Then it's still those idiots who deserve the criticism. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #43

Sure: it's a silly overreaction. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #46

If you focus on the guns, theres no hiding it... beevul Oct 2015 #47

You know, until these school shootings I had no idea we had people here that Rex Oct 2015 #31

word. KG Oct 2015 #37

This is why I utterly despise Infowars and Alex Jones. Initech Oct 2015 #35

No such thing as a "gun enthusiasts" rockfordfile Oct 2015 #39

It's a euphemism. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #42

SCHEUDLING TOMMY_CARCETTI FOR ASS KICKING Skittles Oct 2015 #96

You might very well. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #100

Sure there is. GGJohn Oct 2015 #45

Many of us consider high sales volume a success. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #48

Who here is talking about monetary success? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #49

Many of us consider the right of self defense a prerequisite for basic human dignity. N/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #50

And rushing out to buy a semi-automatic rifle after a school shooting relates to that how? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #51

The rush to buy is directly related to the potential risk of an Kang Colby Oct 2015 #58

But there's no actual "risk" involved. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #60

You are oversimplifying the issue. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #62

Except the need to have a gun just to have it isn't logical. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #66

That's simply your opinion. n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #68

It's essentially Brawndo-esqe logic. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #70

A: Rifles are fun to shoot. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #71

I'm sure blast fishing might be considered fun for some people as well. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #74

Bicycles are far more dangerous to the general public Kang Colby Oct 2015 #75

Yes, but a bicycle's primary purpose is for transportation. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #76

Purpose is irrelevant and subjective. n/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #77

Not really. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #78

That's irrelevant if you are discussing the overall magnitude of harm. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #79

More people are murdered per year via bicycle than via guns? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #80

We are specifically talking about rifles... Kang Colby Oct 2015 #82

Okay. More people are murdered per year via bicycle than via rifles? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #83

I didn't say murdered. There are more bicycle deaths than all rifle deaths combined. N/t Kang Colby Oct 2015 #84

Except you're not considering incidential to vs. because of use from intended purpose. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #85

That's just philosophical babble. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #86

Wha? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #87

What difference does that make? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #88

No, they are not more lethal to society. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #89

"Factor out" as you use it = ignore some deaths. beevul Oct 2015 #90

The amount of people who are actually killed *because of* bicycles is virtually nil. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #99

So your argument is that Kang Colby Oct 2015 #106

Figured you'd go there. You're still wrong. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #107

Freakishly rare, Kang Colby Oct 2015 #108

No, I'll repeat. Bikes are not more dangerous than rifles. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #110

I know you are trying to exclude certain bicycle deaths Kang Colby Oct 2015 #112

Please tell me how many people you believe were killed *because of* bicycles last year. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #114

How many people do you believe were killed *because of* rifles? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #115

So you are only counting accidential rifle deaths, not total deaths? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #116

Go ahead and include both homicides with rifles and unintentional deaths with rifles... Kang Colby Oct 2015 #117

Okay. Again. If a person on a bike is hit by a car..... Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #119

Let's agree to disagree. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #120

Well at least I know where you got your talking points from. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #121

He got his bill passed didn't he? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #122

I wonder also Bettie Oct 2015 #162

The whole argument is mind boggling stupid. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #164

They look for anything Bettie Oct 2015 #165

Also - there are more guns in the U.S. than Kang Colby Oct 2015 #69

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #72

LOLOLOL Skittles Oct 2015 #94

Oh FFS. That is funny. So food, water, guns? you scare me. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #95

Frightening map. nt valerief Oct 2015 #54

Why? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #59

Vermont: Hot bed of Right Wing activism. Huge crime rate. Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #65

LOL.. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #67

I can see a movie where suggestible people are hypnotized to perform mass shootings, JUST valerief Oct 2015 #53

Ex: Post 48 above. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #55

Right! Capitalism's golden rule: Make money by any means or perish. nt valerief Oct 2015 #56

Gun, Ammo, Weapons collecting is an ADDICTION! A deadly addiction! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #81

Yahoos in long line in Georgia to grab ARs after Sandy Hook. Hoyt Oct 2015 #91

Thats a stretch. beevul Oct 2015 #97

Nope, here's a link. I know you don't think your gun buddies are like that, but they are. Hoyt Oct 2015 #98

From the article: Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #102

Your link doesn't support your statement. beevul Oct 2015 #123

That's the very reason. Read the article, read about Sand Hook, look at those yahoos Hoyt Oct 2015 #124

Your claim was specific. beevul Oct 2015 #126

it's what paranoid cowards do Skittles Oct 2015 #93

+ 1. Sad but true in U.S. Person 2713 Oct 2015 #105

Yep libodem Oct 2015 #103

Just heard on the news gun stock are surging Person 2713 Oct 2015 #104

Big-time bullseye, T_C. Perfectly stated. Thanks. (nt) Paladin Oct 2015 #118

Does a massacre get them even more excited about guns? Kingofalldems Oct 2015 #125

it's part of the sneering, snarking pathology they all harbor villager Oct 2015 #127

They rushed after president Obama was elected, they rushed after Sandy Hook, and ISIS, the border, orpupilofnature57 Oct 2015 #128

Nobody needs to make excuses. It's their right to buy guns legally whenever they want LittleBlue Oct 2015 #131

So a mass rush to buy guns, especially AR-15 rifles, in the wake of a horrific school shooting.... Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #132

I don't really care what people buy after a shooting LittleBlue Oct 2015 #133

Anti-social, reactionary behavior doesn't concern you? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #140

Not really LittleBlue Oct 2015 #142

Glad you're willing to admit that about yourself. nt Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #143

Has there been any spike in shootings with "assault weapons" branford Oct 2015 #134

By all indications, Sandy Hook ought to have been a wake up call. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #139

I own guns. Haven't purchased anymore since sometime in the 80's. mmonk Oct 2015 #136

That's nice. nt Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #138

I was in 2 real lock downs in Florida Elementary schools HockeyMom Oct 2015 #153

Gun nuts are really paranoid. Talk about gun control and they go wacko and buy ammo and guns. If.... Logical Oct 2015 #161