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truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)

76. Except the Vietnam morass did stop the Great Society

Thu Oct 15, 2015, 09:53 PM

Oct 2015

or at least its funding. It was intended to end poverty and racial injustice. Did OK on the first part, for white people especially. But other programs not so much: the War on Poverty was not intended to be just a better safety net, but that is all that survived the war's demands. A win-win for conservatives: they got the $$$ for their warmongering pals, and got to claim ever after that the government's War on Poverty was a failure etc etc etc.

I agree that this is the sort of bargain Johnson would make, but if he did he was outflanked.

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A Massive National Security Leak Just Blew the Lid Off Obama's Drone War [View all] Catherina Oct 2015 OP

The Obama Administration's normalization of the use of assassination to circumvent due process Maedhros Oct 2015 #1

90%+ of what people were outraged about hifiguy Oct 2015 #2

+1 LittleBlue Oct 2015 #3

But when Pepsi does it is fine! It's only when Coke does it that it becomes bad! nt mhatrw Oct 2015 #4

Especially if Pepsi manipulates the numbers so people can cheer the killing Catherina Oct 2015 #9

International law is for losers malaise Oct 2015 #112

In my lifetime it's become a pathetic country in so many ways. Not all, but a lot especially RKP5637 Oct 2015 #130

It has become very much like the late Roman Empire- hifiguy Oct 2015 #160

Stretched so thin, propping up the empire, while the homeland slowly rots. n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #166

What a sad statement. Catherina Oct 2015 #15

+1 leftstreet Oct 2015 #5

"a video game, drained of all humanity" How *cool* (barf) Catherina Oct 2015 #6

In 5-month period of a US op in Afghanistan, nearly 90% of people killed were not the targets Catherina Oct 2015 #7

You think Obama has any control over the MIC? Downwinder Oct 2015 #12

Complete, absolutely not. hifiguy Oct 2015 #17

And we don't give a shit either. zeemike Oct 2015 #24

And it doesn't even matter that the people we are killing are jwirr Oct 2015 #151

I don't think anybody who was not totally subservient Downwinder Oct 2015 #43

No one who appears to even have a chance to win the Presidency salib Oct 2015 #125

I'd peg it at FDR's death in 1944. hedda_foil Oct 2015 #146

Baseball cards for Obama to decide who lives or dies Catherina Oct 2015 #22

This is so cynical and horrible. BeanMusical Oct 2015 #53

This is so cynical Caretha Oct 2015 #65

It's about MONEY. hifiguy Oct 2015 #69

I know hifiguy Caretha Oct 2015 #77

It's about control. Feed people's fear in the west. Control populations with terror Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #85

I agree. And power, of course, which requires control. hedda_foil Oct 2015 #149

And continue to complain about Russia if they do anything. jwirr Oct 2015 #152

It's good to be the king. salib Oct 2015 #126

If the President ordered the drone strikes to stop, then they would stop philosslayer Oct 2015 #52

Is Gitmo closed? Downwinder Oct 2015 #55

The CIC doesn't have the authority to close military facilities philosslayer Oct 2015 #56

Fair enough. The CIC does have authority over Downwinder Oct 2015 #75

Transferring the detention center is unlikely to end any of problems salib Oct 2015 #128

Yes Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #84

+1 merrily Oct 2015 #20

Obama did not just "continue" the Drone Assassination program. bvar22 Oct 2015 #155

+ a bazillion marym625 Oct 2015 #168

the drone war is evil, pure and simple Fast Walker 52 Oct 2015 #173

And Obama seemed so promising with the 'Hope and Change" slogan. jalan48 Oct 2015 #8

Thankfully we have whistleblowers of conscience who take the *Change* part seriously Catherina Oct 2015 #10

You are right-thanks for sharing. jalan48 Oct 2015 #14

Every Democratic president, beginning with LBJ hifiguy Oct 2015 #18

Yep-which makes a lot of this election stuff 'pretend'. jalan48 Oct 2015 #21

The PTB are firmly against him Catherina Oct 2015 #25

Actually, I was greatly disappointed during... tex-wyo-dem Oct 2015 #136

I think there would be a coup d'etat if a President went against the military at this point. jalan48 Oct 2015 #138

There WAS a coup d'etat when a President hifiguy Oct 2015 #169

I very much doubt that. By now, someone who had left office would have made a deathbed confession merrily Oct 2015 #23

There is a Permanent Government hifiguy Oct 2015 #28

That does not really address my post. merrily Oct 2015 #29

If Jimmy Carter doesn't, no one will. hifiguy Oct 2015 #35

Yeah, I'm still thinking it would have happened by now. It's been over 50 years. merrily Oct 2015 #59

The really professional spooks take their secrets to their graves. hifiguy Oct 2015 #63

Not 50 years worth. By now, someone would have had a change of heart, been remorseful, been ticked merrily Oct 2015 #110

Plus each of those presidents had families. jwirr Oct 2015 #153

American Deep State AngryAmish Oct 2015 #116

Yup. hifiguy Oct 2015 #159

I don't think so. Even the most idealistic person becoming president over time will LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #143

It didn't have to be a President, though. merrily Oct 2015 #145

True LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #147

A number of people would have had to be involved at all times. Five, ten, fifteen--some number. merrily Oct 2015 #174

Keeping this information totally secret would be impossible. erronis Oct 2015 #148

BS. Expansion of Vietnam Nam was Johnson's policy still_one Oct 2015 #26

Johnson was leaned on very heavily to create a large-scale war in Vietnam. hifiguy Oct 2015 #31

We are going to disagree. No one pushed LBJ around still_one Oct 2015 #48

Except the Vietnam morass did stop the Great Society truebluegreen Oct 2015 #76

Go back to Truman, who fought the "Korean Police Action" and began funding Vietnam after the french merrily Oct 2015 #34

It seems to be generally accepted consensus that JFK hifiguy Oct 2015 #37

Jackie thought "Texas businessmen" had him killed. merrily Oct 2015 #58

The most convincing evidence to me that the CIA hifiguy Oct 2015 #61

JFK approved the Assassination of Diem, and that meant we were going into Vietnam big time. happyslug Oct 2015 #87

The French didn't leave Vietnam until they lost the Battle of Dien Bien Phu Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #118

Thank you! Do you know why Truman started funding then? To keep the French fighting? merrily Oct 2015 #142

Who lost China? happyslug Oct 2015 #176

Thanks. Sending troops to Korea would be the Korean Police Action referred to in my Reply 34. merrily Oct 2015 #177

From 1946 onward the US paid for the French fight in Vietnam. happyslug Oct 2015 #178

Thanks! I didn't mean to put you to all that trouble, but I do appreciate it. merrily Oct 2015 #179

PS. Ted Kennedy was in that Korean mess, something we rarely heard about, if at all. merrily Oct 2015 #180

But JFK was already in Congress when the Korean war began and voted for it. happyslug Oct 2015 #182

Yes, JFK voted for it and his brother enlisted. merrily Oct 2015 #183

a masterstroke of cynicism grasswire Oct 2015 #44

I am not one bit more cynical hifiguy Oct 2015 #49

I've never seen it so well put. haikugal Oct 2015 #93

The Beltway assimilated Obama AZ Progressive Oct 2015 #122

I think he got "here's how things work" lessons from the NSA/CIA about spying, the military and rhett o rick Oct 2015 #129

Thank You For Sharing These Truths cantbeserious Oct 2015 #11

Scahill will be on Chris Hayes MSNBC tonight discussing this Catherina Oct 2015 #16

between this and his relatively fair treatment of bernie, restorefreedom Oct 2015 #41

I hope you're wrong but you're probably not Catherina Oct 2015 #50

yeah just caught a little of the piece on drones restorefreedom Oct 2015 #68

Thanks. I'll try to catch it n/t Catherina Oct 2015 #78

you're welcome! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #80

Genociding the middle east. Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #13

And for what? Catherina Oct 2015 #19

For the anus mundi that is the KSA hifiguy Oct 2015 #33

Don't forget .... LOCKHEED MARTIN..... MADem Oct 2015 #54

War is good hifiguy Oct 2015 #57

And there is not a candidate running who hasn't accommodated those guys in some fashion. MADem Oct 2015 #62

Thanks so much for this, Catherina. I've bookmarked, but read the thread. Sound horrific. merrily Oct 2015 #27

It's horrific. Couple this with pictures of our drone kills Catherina Oct 2015 #36

I think a lot of us were inclined to cut Obama some slack because he wasn't Bush tularetom Oct 2015 #30

It's war crimes. The MSF incident too (graphic pic / beautiful minds warning) Catherina Oct 2015 #39

Gotta keep 'murka Number One, you know. hifiguy Oct 2015 #45

I hate to say this, but Obama surrendered his foreign policy to the neocons years ago. reformist2 Oct 2015 #32

Why? 2naSalit Oct 2015 #40

I wouldn't run for president grasswire Oct 2015 #46

The first people he called in over the Arab spring in Egypt were neocons Catherina Oct 2015 #42

Drop the mic. hifiguy Oct 2015 #51

Yep. One hit after another. I so hope this new leaker never get found. Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #88

Me too. And I hope he (or she) is already safely out of the country Catherina Oct 2015 #96

There's a lot of excuse making on this thread. LeftyMom Oct 2015 #38

The sooner we accept that WE are responsible the sooner things might change. Catherina Oct 2015 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author randome Oct 2015 #60

Explanations do not excuse. hifiguy Oct 2015 #64

Then you try an explanation: how would you stop these terrorists> randome Oct 2015 #70

Which ones? Hydra Oct 2015 #89

Glad you asked... Fairgo Oct 2015 #95

So you'd do nothing, then. Just let it all go and hope for the best. randome Oct 2015 #101

Thanks for that Fairgo Oct 2015 #106

You're at FAR greater risk of breaking your neck in the shower ronnie624 Oct 2015 #111

I have no anxiety regarding terrorists. None. randome Oct 2015 #120

"safeguarding Europe" ronnie624 Oct 2015 #131

Europe does not deal with terrorism> Hello, the Charlie Hebdo attack. randome Oct 2015 #158

More nonsense rationalizations. ronnie624 Oct 2015 #161

Excellent post (n/t) Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #97

Wars without End for Profits without Cease. Octafish Oct 2015 #66

I was hoping you would show up here, sir. hifiguy Oct 2015 #67

Sir, the fort then is in good hands. Octafish Oct 2015 #73

+1! And hi Octafish Catherina Oct 2015 #79

Hiya, Catherina! Great to read you! Octafish Oct 2015 #108

I checked out the link in your tag line. I only got 1/2 way through it, but it is great. GoneFishin Oct 2015 #74

Vincent Salandria was on the case Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Oct 2015 #124

Thanks to all... 1norcal Oct 2015 #154

Agree! nt Duppers Oct 2015 #162

Kick and R BeanMusical Oct 2015 #71

"The Drone Papers". How droll. How hyperbolic. randome Oct 2015 #72

Article: "The US government kills a lot of people who aren't military target" neverforget Oct 2015 #81

What is the alternative> randome Oct 2015 #82

here are alternatives restorefreedom Oct 2015 #107

"Don't give a shit about Europe". Not much of a foreign policy, I think. randome Oct 2015 #113

don't put words in my mouth, thanks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #115

You're talking about taking the long-term view. I have no problem with that. randome Oct 2015 #119

bernie's support of the drone program restorefreedom Oct 2015 #121

The Europeans are fully capable of taking care of themselves, hifiguy Oct 2015 #175

I won't be lectured by murder apologists. Clear? Make sure it is. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #90

So you're saying that killing is bad, right> Brilliant. randome Oct 2015 #99

Was my disdain for you not clear enough? DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #105

Actually whenever I see that name, I know the article is hitting the right nerve. Rex Oct 2015 #135

yep, leaves the facts in the case wholly unaddressed, intact/unrebutted stupidicus Oct 2015 #165

Noticed that too, from the first days of conversation. Rex Oct 2015 #167

yep stupidicus Oct 2015 #170

indeed, thriving on being a murder apologists stupidicus Oct 2015 #164

terrorists!? wildbilln864 Oct 2015 #91

Sure. It's all just nth dimensional chess between the MIC and humanity, I guess. randome Oct 2015 #100

if you're skeerd jump in my pocket. I ain't. n/t wildbilln864 Oct 2015 #102

Not afraid at all. 9-11 changed my life not one bit. randome Oct 2015 #114

Nice try at pretend outrage, it does not suit you well since you are horrible at it. Rex Oct 2015 #133

I'm not pretending to anything. Certainly not to having the wisdom to be right. randome Oct 2015 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #83

Was there any president that WASN'T a killer? Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #86

That is a good one, does that include when the President was NOT the President? happyslug Oct 2015 #109

Thank you for taking the time to respond... Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #141

Jimmy Carter. Rex Oct 2015 #137

Damn. That's pretty crazy. StrongBad Oct 2015 #92

^ Out of sight nationalize the fed Oct 2015 #94

Great link! Excellent quote!! Duppers Oct 2015 #163

for those of you who don't care about sleeping tonight.. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #98

Thanks. I'll watch tonight. If it disturbs my sleep, so be it Catherina Oct 2015 #103

"you suddenly realize it was his mother's phone you've been following all the time" Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #104

mass assassins reddread Oct 2015 #117

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #123

Great post Catherina Oct 2015 #132

Wow! Bookmarking. Duppers Oct 2015 #171

Why did the original poster delete it? It's amazing. Duppers Oct 2015 #172

Isn't it freakin' great to have a Nobel Peace Prize winner in the White House? kath Oct 2015 #127

There is a debate to be had about drones Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #134

Greenwald? MH1 Oct 2015 #139

Greenwald runs the show at the Intercept Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #150

Ok, thanks MH1 Oct 2015 #156

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #140

K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2015 #144

. Autumn Oct 2015 #181