General Discussion

Boxerfan

(2,571 posts)

80. Lilly white old man here-with a lethargic old dog metal detecting in a park.

Fri Oct 16, 2015, 12:29 PM

Oct 2015

I am permitted for the park & know the rangers. All is good & I get exercise.

Long story short-I was not holding the leash. Sherriff comes up & starts doing the hand on his gun is that your dog speech. I tried explaining I was permitted and the dog has never been and is obviously not a problem.

He chewed me for 1/2 hour for the offense of asserting my side of the situation. I had to cow-tow & respect his authori-tie because I was starting to realize this fuck was NUTS. Fuming angry over a dog off the leash. And because I had the temerity to talk back he went full ballistic.

I got the distinct feeling if I was in any way confrontational-or black-he would have shot me on the spot.

Bulging veins & likely a steroid abuser was my take-and dangerously psychopathic. And he had a gun & a badge.

He left me scared & frankly afraid to ever ask them for help.

What he did not know is I have been asked by the PD a few times to search for bullets. And I felt good about helping them. Next time I'm so sorry I forgot an appointment.

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Teenager Alerts Police That They Left Their Brights on -- 5 Minutes Later They Shoot Him Dead [View all] justiceischeap Oct 2015 OP

What can be said ???? nt. k and r.. Stuart G Oct 2015 #1

Always listen and do what a cop tells you FormerRepublicanNow Oct 2015 #256

Yeah, great. Just give up. Let the cops be whatever law they want to be. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #273

Dd you watch the video, the kid was a smart ass FormerRepublicanNow Oct 2015 #290

1. "Smart-assery" is not illegal; 2. Nor is flashing one's lights; 3. Thus, the COP acted illegally. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #292

Flashing high-beams is illegal according to Michigan's driving booklet pintobean Oct 2015 #296

That oughtta teach him a lesson. lpbk2713 Oct 2015 #2

Do not hit a cop yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #10

I didn't see him hit the cop. I watched the entire video brush Oct 2015 #25

Sorry. Down thread they were mentioning he hit him. yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #30

Hiring higher iq cops is something that many departments are against actually... Lancero Oct 2015 #31

I know, but they shouldn't be. brush Oct 2015 #40

I didn't see him hit the cop either. I bet he got those bruises after his "backup arrived." kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #67

Any LEO who stands by while another crosses the line ... lpbk2713 Oct 2015 #82

I wonder about this comment of your's also. brush Oct 2015 #117

It's a small, rural community - the protests are hand painted Pathwalker Oct 2015 #174

Wish there was more that could be done. brush Oct 2015 #176

I got stopped for doing that once. Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #141

"Reasonable orders"? Police are to use LAWFUL orders. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #274

Well, I've never regarded a request for license, registration, and proof of insurance Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #279

Ever hear of "reasonable cause"? Cops can't legally simply stop people and "request" your list. So WinkyDink Oct 2015 #291

A doctor characterized his[the cop] injuries as "significant facial trauma," hack89 Oct 2015 #154

There's a lot of info in that article pintobean Oct 2015 #167

I don't believe it was necessary to kill the boy. Even if he hit the cop and ran. rhett o rick Oct 2015 #207

And shot SEVEN times at point blank range. Midnight Writer Oct 2015 #222

Our police forces are very welcoming to psycopaths. Sadly the others will cover for them. nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #226

Very similar to george zimmerman's story brush Oct 2015 #171

After 108324n23nu videos of cops lying out of their teeth I don't take their word for it any longer uponit7771 Oct 2015 #173

Was the doctor lying? nt hack89 Oct 2015 #177

Who knows, he might not be accurate if his analysis was based off of the word of the cop uponit7771 Oct 2015 #178

Don't you think his analysis was based on a medical exam? hack89 Oct 2015 #179

Some people tried the same BS over Sandra Bland and kept insisting she was killed before she cstanleytech Oct 2015 #181

If you want to be overescalating cops should be given the benefit of the doubt the feel free also uponit7771 Oct 2015 #189

Its more like everyone should be given it, in this case I will wait to hear about the varies cstanleytech Oct 2015 #231

Most likely. Or at least exagerating if he knew what's good for him. nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #208

So you know the doctor? hack89 Oct 2015 #211

Do you know him? rhett o rick Oct 2015 #213

So you pulled that out of your ass hack89 Oct 2015 #220

And you object because of your opinion of cops. Cops kill if people don't give them the rhett o rick Oct 2015 #229

We are talking about the doctor hack89 Oct 2015 #255

It's my opinion that a doctor in this situation would be under a lot of pressure and may rhett o rick Oct 2015 #259

What exactly is "significant facial trauma"? Captain Stern Oct 2015 #280

The appropriate response to that is an assault charge stranger81 Oct 2015 #216

I think it is pretty obvious by now, some cops are predatory killers just looking to take someone Rex Oct 2015 #3

This story is getting world wide coverage.. Stuart G Oct 2015 #4

There is no proof of a fight, just the killers word. Rex Oct 2015 #8

we need a national "do not hire" list questionseverything Oct 2015 #114

Not a bad idea davidpdx Oct 2015 #251

In fact I was just looking this up on DU because I saw it on the news here in Korea davidpdx Oct 2015 #252

Maybe there's more to the story. The police officer was injured, too. pnwmom Oct 2015 #5

It is a fight..sure he might get injured...is the sentence "death" cause of a fight? in USA, yes Stuart G Oct 2015 #6

No. But the OP doesn't indicate there was a fight. The description pnwmom Oct 2015 #98

because there is no proof there was a fight questionseverything Oct 2015 #112

So? The article left off any discussion of the officer's side of the story. pnwmom Oct 2015 #155

If the officer had cuts or bruises that usually is a decent indicator that there was an cstanleytech Oct 2015 #180

His backup arrives and asks, "How much damage do you want?" He replies, tblue37 Oct 2015 #182

I would say the kid failed to respect providing his license as requested which usually no matter cstanleytech Oct 2015 #185

One does not have to provide one's license---IF THE COP HAD NO REASON TO STOP ONE. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #294

Good luck trying that and not getting ticketed and or arrested. nt cstanleytech Oct 2015 #300

yes i think it is a lie.... questionseverything Oct 2015 #184

Dont you have to actually still be alive for something like your knuckles to swell after a fight? cstanleytech Oct 2015 #186

'There is no video of the confrontation' Rex Oct 2015 #7

So, ya think he did this pintobean Oct 2015 #9

Well that changes things a bit, doesn't it? nt B2G Oct 2015 #11

Not at all. It was an illegal stop, arrest and excessive use of force. morningfog Oct 2015 #91

In spite of the families claim, it wasn't an illegal stop. Xithras Oct 2015 #132

but if it's illegal for the kid to flash his lights... smiley Oct 2015 #209

He didn't have his high beams on. The lights were just bright. Waldorf Oct 2015 #219

Did you read this? 3rd time this cop responded to such light flashing for high beams uppityperson Oct 2015 #224

Yes, I have read this numerous times. Evidently the lights were bright and he had pulled people Waldorf Oct 2015 #239

Or if the cop wasn't an ass about having maladjusted lights. Or waited for the backup he had uppityperson Oct 2015 #260

Oh good god. Hissyspit Oct 2015 #232

To stay out of prison for murdering someone? Rex Oct 2015 #13

So, all the evidence pintobean Oct 2015 #15

That is how you think since you cannot be objective enough to ever see wrong in law enforcement. Rex Oct 2015 #17

No, I wait for the facts, you don't. pintobean Oct 2015 #24

Kewl story bro, if only your posting history said otherwise. Rex Oct 2015 #27

lol pintobean Oct 2015 #28

Yes that is what everyone does that has the misfortune of having to communicate with you. Rex Oct 2015 #34

I dont respond to certain people here, as hard as they try and get me to. randys1 Oct 2015 #127

It's heartbreaking, Randy pintobean Oct 2015 #136

Smart. Rex Oct 2015 #137

Absolutely, they JUMP all over you if you make a mistake or come close to something they can hide randys1 Oct 2015 #139

Yeah the similarities between their monitoring of us and places like CC and FR watching us Rex Oct 2015 #140

Observing from the bush Fairgo Oct 2015 #190

Sometimes I just smell vinegar pintobean Oct 2015 #212

Me too! me too! Fairgo Oct 2015 #215

yeah, and Eric Garner wasn't choked. marym625 Oct 2015 #197

Where'd the photo come from? brush Oct 2015 #42

The link in post #5. Detroit Free Press pintobean Oct 2015 #49

A lot of dried blood, but no other visual evidence of injury... 1monster Oct 2015 #69

This looks like a gash to me pintobean Oct 2015 #78

Looks pretty fake to me kcr Oct 2015 #101

Head wounds bleed like a motherfucker. Brickbat Oct 2015 #110

Wrestlers put tiny nicks in their forhead and it bleeds profusely arcane1 Oct 2015 #130

That appears to be a recoil injury, from the weapon's slide Ash_F Oct 2015 #235

This is becoming a Zimmerman rerun. pintobean Oct 2015 #246

The jury is back. NaturalHigh Oct 2015 #271

That's a personal attack by the alerter. pintobean Oct 2015 #272

That guy was guilty as sin. /nt Ash_F Oct 2015 #278

Looks fake . stonecutter357 Oct 2015 #247

Yeah, lucky for him pintobean Oct 2015 #248

does look strange Locrian Oct 2015 #88

Beacuse skin is stretched relatively tightly over the skull, it actually doesn't take much to break Brickbat Oct 2015 #111

Swelling and bruising usually takes time to develop. Do we know when this was taken? pnwmom Oct 2015 #95

It was taken when that blood was dribbled over his face kcr Oct 2015 #104

At NASA studios, no doubt. pintobean Oct 2015 #108

In the injuries I've had where there was swelling, the swelling was almost instant. 1monster Oct 2015 #203

That gash between the eyes is where the blood come from. ileus Oct 2015 #150

yes, dried blood. and more like puncture wounds hopemountain Oct 2015 #199

But to me it looks zalinda Oct 2015 #70

Yes I do SoLeftIAmRight Oct 2015 #97

No evidence the teen had anything to do with this cut damnedifIknow Oct 2015 #113

The fact that we haven't seen any evidence pintobean Oct 2015 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author damnedifIknow Oct 2015 #121

Do you seriously bleive they are above punching each other in the face melman Oct 2015 #120

I don't think complicated conspiracies are likely pintobean Oct 2015 #124

The Sam Dubose Police Report Is Full of Falsehoods From Ray Tensing�s Fellow Officers Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #158

Makes ya wonder about people that never see anything but black and white. Rex Oct 2015 #162

I agree. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #163

Like mixing two volatile chemicals and not expecting an explosion. Rex Oct 2015 #165

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility out of hand. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #123

so? punching is a natural response to getting tased, shot, punched, or clubbed MillennialDem Oct 2015 #131

I saw that at an all-star wrestling match once Fairgo Oct 2015 #191

head wounds bleed like crazy marym625 Oct 2015 #196

Darren Wilson had facial injuries too.. frylock Oct 2015 #18

Oh yeah SwankyXomb Oct 2015 #23

The thing is, in the video confrontation justiceischeap Oct 2015 #22

Don't believe your lying eyes! JoeyT Oct 2015 #76

He had NO FUCKING REASON to pull him over. morningfog Oct 2015 #87

People are ignoring that salient fact. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #275

Technically speaking, there was a law that said no flashing brights within 500 feet mythology Oct 2015 #295

Is that the cop's blood on his face? Kingofalldems Oct 2015 #12

Does kind of look like blood spatter. brush Oct 2015 #43

Lock the PIG up and I hope the family ends up owning the whole damned County! n/t Ghost in the Machine Oct 2015 #14

Looks like the urban myth about gangs shooting people for flashing their lights is true. frylock Oct 2015 #16

seems like a simple enough matter hfojvt Oct 2015 #19

So the kid deserved it? Kingofalldems Oct 2015 #21

there are smart things to do hfojvt Oct 2015 #44

Well, the cop did make the decision to use deadly force Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #77

And if people died for being stupid, there would be a lot less posters on DU. n/t A Simple Game Oct 2015 #86

Illegal stop, illegal arrest, the cop was looking for a fight. morningfog Oct 2015 #93

Kid would still be alive today had the cop not shut him brentspeak Oct 2015 #115

have you seen the picture of the cop's face? hfojvt Oct 2015 #129

You mean all the blood from the kid that got shot? Rex Oct 2015 #164

Yes, the cop is the bad guy. Really! GeorgeGist Oct 2015 #249

The boy did not deserve to die over this. avaistheone1 Oct 2015 #26

usually when they are being assaulted hfojvt Oct 2015 #56

So it's OK in your view for a cop to over react and shoot sometime, but if they assault a person, uppityperson Oct 2015 #225

When they are assaulted. Kid would be alive today if he had just did the simple thing the cop asked. Waldorf Oct 2015 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author Jake Stern Oct 2015 #116

How in the world could you know that? uppityperson Oct 2015 #227

I really hope that you were trying for sarcasm here and that I am misinterpreting your post. Moostache Oct 2015 #36

we pay the cops to do certain things hfojvt Oct 2015 #55

We do not pay the cops to murder citizens that dare to question the cop's authority. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #75

except that's not what the cop did hfojvt Oct 2015 #103

Says the cop. jeff47 Oct 2015 #106

Jesus wept. (n/t) Moostache Oct 2015 #188

Too bad you weren't there. snort Oct 2015 #39

you do realize hfojvt Oct 2015 #59

Yes, just obey and everything will be all right. Demit Oct 2015 #83

Why are you defending criminal cops? Taitertots Oct 2015 #100

That's the way it seems LittleBlue Oct 2015 #105

The kids was wrong, but he didn't deserve to be murdered in cold blood. nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #187

It's heartbreaking to see every possible wrong decision being made here. Brickbat Oct 2015 #20

I agree. pintobean Oct 2015 #35

"We all know who has the badge." Brickbat Oct 2015 #41

It's heartbreaking to see every possible wrong decision being made here. AlbertCat Oct 2015 #48

NP. People here will justify the shooting it is in their DNA. Rex Oct 2015 #51

I am so OVER this kind of argument! chervilant Oct 2015 #198

Seriously. Hissyspit Oct 2015 #204

That is so true!! Chemisse Oct 2015 #210

I'll repeat this.... AlbertCat Oct 2015 #302

Sometimes it takes a horrible incident such as this riversedge Oct 2015 #29

that is the point,police brutality and even murder by police can happen to anyone questionseverything Oct 2015 #125

Cops today are like predatory animals, dangerous, and some seek prey to kill! n/t RKP5637 Oct 2015 #32

I'm not sure whether this shooting was justified, or not. Captain Stern Oct 2015 #33

Pulling the teen over was not justified since it was not illegal to flash his headlights. Rex Oct 2015 #37

Except that it is illegal to flash your brights in Michigan Xithras Oct 2015 #134

Link? Rex Oct 2015 #143

Here ya go... Xithras Oct 2015 #148

Thanks, yeah everything I read said the shooting was legal but completely unnecessary. Rex Oct 2015 #153

That's what it comes down to for me. Xithras Oct 2015 #172

That's the best way I've seen it written down and agree 100%. Rex Oct 2015 #175

According to the law, the stop was legal. Captain Stern Oct 2015 #276

Exactly Geronimoe Oct 2015 #60

And if you know that ... knightmaar Oct 2015 #64

EXACTLY what I noticed... Whiskeytide Oct 2015 #149

Overreaction all around, but only one of the parties is dead tularetom Oct 2015 #38

What makes you think we were wrong about Ferguson? IVoteDFL Oct 2015 #53

OK, I'll correct that - I was wrong tularetom Oct 2015 #74

Ferguson was never "wrong" Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #68

Darren Wilson is one lucky cop. If someone had had a cell video going . . . brush Oct 2015 #72

He fled the crime scene like a criminal wanted for murder and then fled town Rex Oct 2015 #146

Yep! Another coward with a gun brush Oct 2015 #169

Yay, Motherfucking Cops! Iggo Oct 2015 #45

The police are out of control, end of story. They are not taught how to deescalate situations and Pisces Oct 2015 #46

Do you have to produce license, registration etc. in Michigan? knightmaar Oct 2015 #47

Yeah, you do: knightmaar Oct 2015 #50

Moral of the story, wait for backup. Rex Oct 2015 #52

A sociopath doesn't feel any remorse. wolfie001 Oct 2015 #159

Jesus... WillyT Oct 2015 #54

Guess the killer cop didn't give the kid time to develop Stockholm syndrome. brush Oct 2015 #217

Law enforcement is a safe haven for murderous psychopaths and cowardly killers tabasco Oct 2015 #57

Exactly. Duppers Oct 2015 #81

Remember back to 9/11, they were all sainted heroes. wolfie001 Oct 2015 #161

yea where is the video questionseverything Oct 2015 #277

Other moral - don't ever seek the attention of law enforcement unless you are prepared Rex Oct 2015 #58

But he had no way of knowing that was a cop car knightmaar Oct 2015 #62

True, I've flashed cars at night for the same reason. Rex Oct 2015 #63

These people should have their guns taken away. Initech Oct 2015 #61

All he had to do was taser the kid and wait for backup. Rex Oct 2015 #66

"The officer did nothing to calm or de-escalate the situation. Instead, Frost rapidly became a kennedy Oct 2015 #71

Black Deaths Matter! libodem Oct 2015 #73

The kid was white brush Oct 2015 #218

Why did the cop pull him over? gwheezie Oct 2015 #79

Lilly white old man here-with a lethargic old dog metal detecting in a park. Boxerfan Oct 2015 #80

I'm curious, did he have a shaved head, like the cop pictured here? Demit Oct 2015 #94

The skinhead look is usually a deliberate signal to others that one has the tblue37 Oct 2015 #192

+1 nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #107

I was harassed by 1 for having the audacity of not knowing all street names in my town uppityperson Oct 2015 #228

Just another day in the police state called Murica. Lint Head Oct 2015 #84

zero tolerance for cop killers. Put them in jail, put them on the death penalty for murder patsimp Oct 2015 #85

You mean killer cops, right? SwankyXomb Oct 2015 #118

The cop pulled the kid over just to be a dick. Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2015 #89

Yup. Hissyspit Oct 2015 #233

Once again, a collection of horrible decisions by both sides ends in tragic results. Oneironaut Oct 2015 #90

I wouldn't go there with the 'both sides' bit. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #122

Teen dead because he had the audacity to flash his brights damnedifIknow Oct 2015 #92

Why didn't he tase the kid when he was on the ground and resisted? Reter Oct 2015 #96

I wonder if he meant to tase him, but pulled out the wrong one and is now covering it up? Oneironaut Oct 2015 #99

I just read another story that he did tase him, according to the officer at least Reter Oct 2015 #102

He did but the Taser didn't work properly hack89 Oct 2015 #156

Same thing with Wilson and Brown, cops are taught to kill first ... that's their training uponit7771 Oct 2015 #168

He did tase him. The kid kept his phone in his hand to videotape the cop's actions, so tblue37 Oct 2015 #285

We need a live feed going in real time to the station.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #109

As stated above... TipTok Oct 2015 #266

I wasn't aware it carried the death sentence. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #268

I suspect that a close reading of the law will agree with you... TipTok Oct 2015 #283

"Stuff that happened" AKA: Maniac cop. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #284

The tape needs to also be automatically uploaded to be viewed by a civilian review board if tblue37 Oct 2015 #286

Both, for review. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2015 #289

Thanks for posting, but no thanks for the snarky comment. Comrade Grumpy Oct 2015 #126

In no way am I claiming they do however justiceischeap Oct 2015 #157

Who cares even if he did punch the cop? fight or flight is a natural MillennialDem Oct 2015 #128

There's a recent post upthread pintobean Oct 2015 #135

again so? fight or flight is a natural reaction MillennialDem Oct 2015 #138

The kid died because he knew he was driving without a license. cadaverdog Oct 2015 #133

Fire away? Easy. Hissyspit Oct 2015 #234

Yes,that is my opinion. If he had his license he cadaverdog Oct 2015 #264

Ahhhhh, how simple life must be when you just make shit up to fit your world view tabasco Oct 2015 #299

I don't understand any of this. WillowTree Oct 2015 #142

Evidently the cop had pulled over many people for flashing him, so he knew his headlights Rex Oct 2015 #145

Yes, he tazed the kid on the ground. And what happened next? Kid got up and charged the Waldorf Oct 2015 #183

Some people will fight after being tased. It's called fight or flight. Especially people who have MillennialDem Oct 2015 #206

According to the cop who killed him. Did you watch the video? WHERE did this kid do as you claim? uppityperson Oct 2015 #230

Its in the link of the OP. Go to around 5:10 of the video. He's telling the guy to put his arms Waldorf Oct 2015 #240

I see no assault. I do see assumptions being made here, based on the shooter's report of the inciden uppityperson Oct 2015 #261

when is the last time you saw the police use their turn signals ? olddots Oct 2015 #144

Or when it is time to get off work, so they turn on the lights and rush through traffic to get Rex Oct 2015 #147

Wake up White people! ZX86 Oct 2015 #151

Again, take the guns away from local law enforcement. closeupready Oct 2015 #152

What gave that officer the idea he had the authority to kill someone just because JDPriestly Oct 2015 #160

He had that authority when the kid attacked the cop. Waldorf Oct 2015 #194

He didn't attack the cop at all or at least not until after he was tased and he was non-violent up MillennialDem Oct 2015 #205

I could not see the video well. Did the kid attack the officer? JDPriestly Oct 2015 #237

After refusing 7 times to show his d/l, insurance, etc., the cop ordered him out of the car. Waldorf Oct 2015 #241

The stop itself was withouot any provocation. The officer had already been flahsed because his JDPriestly Oct 2015 #242

If a cop pulls you over and you're driving, yeah you do have to show a license and registration. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #243

If the cop was so scared, why did he physically assault the kid rather than wait for backup? uppityperson Oct 2015 #262

This is one of those cases fadedrose Oct 2015 #166

Dumb kid, doesn't know how to deal with a wannabe killer. Darb Oct 2015 #170

I'm K&R'ing because this is horrific marym625 Oct 2015 #193

Really? snooper2 Oct 2015 #281

Any sane adult who watched the video would understand exactly who the "Players" ladjf Oct 2015 #195

No, his department has already cleared him. The boy's parents decided to sue after viewing the tblue37 Oct 2015 #287

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #200

Sorry, that kid was an idiot, or had something really wrong mentally. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #201

You can't be serious brush Oct 2015 #221

Yes, im serious. At least for the first 10 minutes, the cop was being real patient. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #244

I disagree brush Oct 2015 #258

Great video. Thanks for sharing! DawgHouse Oct 2015 #265

Everybody interested in this case DLevine Oct 2015 #298

I have to agree with you PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #282

Lesson learned; just do what the cop tells you. Question later. ErikJ Oct 2015 #202

Warning for what? damnedifIknow Oct 2015 #253

Women are often told that if traveling alone justiceischeap Oct 2015 #257

And what about this scenario? AngryOldDem Oct 2015 #263

Actually, I have read several reports of cops going ballistic if a woman drives to a safe place tblue37 Oct 2015 #288

Agree to comply for your safety, but the cop was clearly in the wrong to stop the kid sub.theory Oct 2015 #269

But the only problem is he couldve been an imposter cop. ErikJ Oct 2015 #270

Pigs Loki Oct 2015 #214

This goes far beyond race. romanic Oct 2015 #223

I feel completely ill. cyberswede Oct 2015 #236

� � � � � � � � � Alkene Oct 2015 #238

Police have the right to murder you. Whenever they decide they want to, alphafemale Oct 2015 #245

Death penalty for not boosting a cops ego is over the top. B Calm Oct 2015 #250

Interesting note Loki Oct 2015 #254

White kids lives matter ..... too! UCmeNdc Oct 2015 #267

For the edification of anyone who thinks the victim was somehow out of legal line: WinkyDink Oct 2015 #293

What Every Driver Must Know pintobean Oct 2015 #297

You're wasting your breath. Regardless of you (and COLGATE4 Oct 2015 #301