General Discussion

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)

42. A couple things....

Mon Oct 19, 2015, 09:17 AM

Oct 2015

Pensions aren't free. Pension contributions ARE, in fact, part of compensation. Just becuase they aren;t included as "income" doesn't mean that it isn't costing the employee something. It certainly does.

AS for defined pension plans... I personally don't trust them. And it's not just bankruptcy judges raiding pensions (though that is a problem), Part of the problem is demographics. Not matter how you slice it, most defined pension plans depend on a pretty high proportion of active workers supporting retirees. I personally would rather see an expansion of Social Security benefits, rather than depending upon corporate pension programs, which often screw workers. How many stories do we hear of pension benefits being cut because the pension itself is distressed?

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401(k)s Are a Negligible Source of Income for Seniors [View all] eridani Oct 2015 OP

I think 401k's are fine for upper middle class folks... Adrahil Oct 2015 #1

Why Not just go back to defined pension plans with tough controls fasttense Oct 2015 #13

A couple things.... Adrahil Oct 2015 #42

I have a small pension - only worked for the company for 5 years. hollysmom Oct 2015 #50

That happened to some friends of mine. Adrahil Oct 2015 #51

I had 2 pointless 401ks. hollysmom Oct 2015 #54

This is even the definition of a 401k... GummyBearz Oct 2015 #55

all of my 401Ks were assigned to a single company for management. hollysmom Oct 2015 #80

Inflation ate up a lot of those old pension plans Warpy Oct 2015 #106

Thats why the law was changed to force one to get out, instead of the opposite. 7962 Oct 2015 #18

But since these 401s are doing so miserably for evryone else fasttense Oct 2015 #31

You cant force a private company to have a defined benefit program. 7962 Oct 2015 #38

Actually you can force corporations to have a defined pension plan. fasttense Oct 2015 #77

Not exactly any contributions that the company made in doc03 Oct 2015 #102

According to the ERISA, no it cant. Only funds that havent been deposited. 7962 Oct 2015 #107

Same goes for an IRA CountAllVotes Oct 2015 #104

Defined pension depend on a demographic model which no longer exists. Adrahil Oct 2015 #44

That's false. Life expectancy after childhood has only changed by 2-3 years in the past 100 years MillennialDem Oct 2015 #60

OK, let's say THAT is true... what about the aging population? Adrahil Oct 2015 #68

It's not as dramatic as you think - but changes should be made to strengthen social security - that MillennialDem Oct 2015 #71

That chart is a misrepresentation of the facts. In 1983, Raygun changed how it is done. fasttense Oct 2015 #81

My parents are boomers (or a year or two older). I agree with you of course and MillennialDem Oct 2015 #95

I know of no defined pension plans that are supported by younger workers. fasttense Oct 2015 #79

yep Go Vols Oct 2015 #88

$12,600 a MONTH?? shanti Oct 2015 #89

Union Steelwork Go Vols Oct 2015 #91

wow! shanti Oct 2015 #99

No way there isn't any steelworker that makes $12600 doc03 Oct 2015 #108

That is a RepubliCON talking point and is not accurate. fasttense Oct 2015 #78

You think pensions don't depend on market performance? GummyBearz Oct 2015 #59

Pension funds are managed as a whole not as individual accounts. fasttense Oct 2015 #83

The market is higher today than it was before GummyBearz Oct 2015 #84

What do you think pension plans invest in? Kang Colby Oct 2015 #96

pensions are not always safe and protected - ask these teamsters DrDan Oct 2015 #117

Our oldest son has always been in a 401 k and for HIM, it's working great SoCalDem Oct 2015 #112

With balances like that, I dont think helping you will be any problem! nt 7962 Oct 2015 #116

this seems to me to say that these seniors were/are not great savers DrDan Oct 2015 #2

Being able to save is dependent upon having more income TO save, beyond everyday needs. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #3

if folks had more - they would spend more - not save. DrDan Oct 2015 #5

Total denial..... daleanime Oct 2015 #14

Yup. Exactly right. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #22

It is our patriotic duty, in a time of war, to go shopping according to the Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #20

exactly DrDan Oct 2015 #28

Actually there was a study that found a higher wage does cause more savings fasttense Oct 2015 #27

Sad that you're the only one that gets it. Dawgs Oct 2015 #39

Christmas is already hitting the stores, Black Friday is just around the corner DrDan Oct 2015 #45

Not really true. I've had to spend a bunch of money for medical (trans related) stuff, but other MillennialDem Oct 2015 #56

you are one person - I am referring to U.S. citizens in general DrDan Oct 2015 #67

So wrong marions ghost Oct 2015 #75

don't buy it DrDan Oct 2015 #86

Not having a computer and internet access is career suicide. MillennialDem Oct 2015 #97

Don't forget the refrigerators. azmom Oct 2015 #100

!! KansDem Oct 2015 #127

Thank you marions ghost Oct 2015 #128

The ONLY way one can retire safely SoCalDem Oct 2015 #113

I agree with all of these DrDan Oct 2015 #114

JFK said it best: A rising tide lifts all boats. forest444 Oct 2015 #10

you can save all you want, but unless you are one of the predator class, it will all be stolen magical thyme Oct 2015 #12

Rec this post! ^^^^^ Ilsa Oct 2015 #16

"stolen"? - I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about DrDan Oct 2015 #103

+ 1000 KentuckyWoman Oct 2015 #110

Not enough left after thieving asset owners and their lapdog politicians get theirs. n/t jtuck004 Oct 2015 #118

unbridled consumerism DrDan Oct 2015 #119

I know - food, rent, medicine, diapers. Damn spendthrifts. And most people who get food stamps jtuck004 Oct 2015 #121

sure there are those who struggle - I get it DrDan Oct 2015 #122

You sound like a very passionate person. I think Evillocks would like you a lot. n/t jtuck004 Oct 2015 #123

401K's are just like this little game............................ turbinetree Oct 2015 #4

Most 401 (k)s) distribute only 50% of their value to the owner of the account the other 50% DhhD Oct 2015 #11

Where do you get that figure? 7962 Oct 2015 #19

Have you ever had a 401k? GummyBearz Oct 2015 #63

??? - 50%???? DrDan Oct 2015 #115

Totally false n/t SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #129

UAL enid602 Oct 2015 #21

This is correct.............................. turbinetree Oct 2015 #62

If you don;t trust the markety, put your bucks into government bonds. Adrahil Oct 2015 #52

In my response ................................ turbinetree Oct 2015 #64

Well, that's a big reason I want retirement finds OUT of the hands of companies. Adrahil Oct 2015 #69

It did belong to us................................. turbinetree Oct 2015 #72

They are great for people who want more conservatives to win. raouldukelives Oct 2015 #6

They have turned us all into members of the ownership class who now find ourselves rooting for Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #25

well said marions ghost Oct 2015 #76

That's The Same With Pensions, Though ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #49

Pensions are SmittynMo Oct 2015 #7

not only pensions are almost non-existent, 401s are too. The stock market with a couple shraby Oct 2015 #9

Is it still at $50K? A HERETIC I AM Oct 2015 #17

savings enid602 Oct 2015 #24

But we are talking 401(k)'s here, not individual stock portfolio's A HERETIC I AM Oct 2015 #35

mutuals enid602 Oct 2015 #40

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! 7962 Oct 2015 #26

It never went back up. We didn't change anything, Any gains were made by shraby Oct 2015 #29

I find that very hard to believe. A HERETIC I AM Oct 2015 #37

I agree that the dismal return seems exceptional. On the other hand, closeupready Oct 2015 #61

Ahem... Adrahil Oct 2015 #53

I made back every cent and more since the last crash. What did you doc03 Oct 2015 #105

We sold nothing shraby Oct 2015 #125

It only helps if you work for a company that offers them! LittleGirl Oct 2015 #8

You can put money into a Roth IRA - check with an investment advisor csziggy Oct 2015 #73

yes, agree completely LittleGirl Oct 2015 #85

Ture - neither my husband or I started saving for retirement until we were 50 csziggy Oct 2015 #90

When 401K's first started, republicans sold them as a supplement to your pension. They B Calm Oct 2015 #15

Hmmmmm.... SoapBox Oct 2015 #23

Nobody makes all that much. We are all "middle class." The fact of the matter is that you are able Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #30

+1 Couldn't agree more! I was fortunate enough to stash away 30% of my income, but B Calm Oct 2015 #32

savings enid602 Oct 2015 #34

You're statement should be read by everyone. 7962 Oct 2015 #36

And as long as you never hit a bump in the road, it works! jeff47 Oct 2015 #48

I put in the max of 15% when I was single, 20 years ago. haele Oct 2015 #70

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time shrike Oct 2015 #120

I'm the child of depression era parents, I can handle it. haele Oct 2015 #124

We have been subjected to one financial scam after the other from Wall Street. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #33

Clinton told them to knock it off GummyBearz Oct 2015 #66

In short: the money went to Wall Street. Helen Borg Oct 2015 #41

This is why we need strong unions to ensure we have real pension plans. PatrickforO Oct 2015 #43

Well since they didn't exist until 81 and didn't become widespread until years later whatthehey Oct 2015 #46

People jump from job to job MichMan Oct 2015 #47

Portability is only recent. And many 401ks are a mix of company stock and a handful of funds. haele Oct 2015 #74

401k bashing is pretty pointless BeyondGeography Oct 2015 #57

Mission Accomplished Octafish Oct 2015 #58

When i first got my "real" job, the company had a pension plan. librechik Oct 2015 #65

Marta and I have FOREVER pensions not in financial trouble Omaha Steve Oct 2015 #82

I'm shocked. Shocked! KamaAina Oct 2015 #87

Most people aren't able to save daredtowork Oct 2015 #92

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #93

Kick Liberal_in_LA Oct 2015 #94

Come on, folks. Reading the manual should alleviate a lot of the concerns with 401ks. Kang Colby Oct 2015 #98

Explain how that is supposed to work for the 50% of families that are poor or near poor n/t eridani Oct 2015 #111

another money grabbing scheme by that god damn diaper wearing gopiscrap Oct 2015 #101

The worst retirement plan I ever heard of was my Aunt's employer HeiressofBickworth Oct 2015 #109

My dad did very well with his RandySF Oct 2015 #126