General Discussion

Xithras

(16,191 posts)

53. The PTO model is awful.

Thu Oct 22, 2015, 02:13 PM

Oct 2015

One of my previous employers had a PTO system and it was freaking awful. One of my coworkers had health issues and she wasn't able to take a single day of vacation in the entire three years I worked with them. Why not? Because she was forced to use her PTO days while she was out for surgery and chemo. Under the PTO model, every day you are out sick or are out seeking medical treatment is one less day that you are allowed to take off for personal time or vacation. It encourages people to come to work sick so they'll avoid depleting vacation days, and penalizes employees with health problems.

Vacation time is vacation time. Sick leave is sick leave. Merging the two into a generic "paid time off" concept is a horrible idea. I'll never again work at a company that uses it.

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what do childfree/childless people get instead of "parental leave?" [View all] restorefreedom Oct 2015 OP

As far as I'm concerned, it will make for "better" kids, and a better society. Hoyt Oct 2015 #1

i have no problem with that concept restorefreedom Oct 2015 #5

Sorry, I don't see this as "If you get X, I should get Y thing." trof Oct 2015 #419

but each of us made a life choice. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #428

Theoretically a man who has a newborn should get some time off to spend with his family davidpdx Oct 2015 #507

In the old days rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #519

it should not matter whst the leave is for restorefreedom Oct 2015 #524

Yes it is a life choice. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #603

+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #610

Nonsense rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #643

And yet, so many of us seem to have no trouble saying no. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #644

Umm, no cabyio Oct 2015 #628

Sociopathic republican logic eom rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #642

We are below demographic replacement rate. We need to avoid the dreaded inverted Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #606

to some degree, yes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #609

We don't have growth in America. Around 2.1 children is the replacement rate. We hoovering around Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #611

then i guess we are in good shape restorefreedom Oct 2015 #612

As a child-free person, I totally agree Cal Carpenter Oct 2015 #13

I can even support it in a more selfish way -- good kids will be working to pay our Social Security. Hoyt Oct 2015 #223

Yep. And it's like paying taxes for schools, I don't expect to get something else Cal Carpenter Oct 2015 #242

so do you give $10 to everybody you see hfojvt Oct 2015 #382

You might have grown up to be happier if they'd had family leave. Hoyt Oct 2015 #400

my mom was a stay at home mom hfojvt Oct 2015 #585

Not many of those around nowadays, in case you haven't noticed. Hoyt Oct 2015 #587

Then they can have my $10's, your's went to kill that kid in the Mid-East... daleanime Oct 2015 #433

I have no idea what you are talking about hfojvt Oct 2015 #586

No, I'm trying to share honesty...... daleanime Oct 2015 #592

I don't see an unfair idea as a good idea hfojvt Oct 2015 #593

you make a very importan point 'selfishness sells socialism' w0nderer Oct 2015 #506

But like you say, selfishness is OK if directed to the good of everyone. Hoyt Oct 2015 #542

Because Snow Leopard Oct 2015 #366

so the extra money I pay hfojvt Oct 2015 #381

Yep, the next - and happier - generation will cure your diseases, pay your Social Security, etc. Hoyt Oct 2015 #401

And, in the more intermediate term ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #406

There's that too. Hoyt Oct 2015 #464

so you want to rob me now hfojvt Oct 2015 #584

Robbery? ... A protection racket? ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #590

I see it as free stuff going to other people hfojvt Oct 2015 #594

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #596

Several people on this thread Bettie Oct 2015 #616

For a while now, it seems that (some) DUers pine for the '50s model in a number of ways ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #618

Maybe it is about loss of privilege Bettie Oct 2015 #621

I suspect that it is very much about the loss of privilege ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #622

And the realization that other people had different experiences Bettie Oct 2015 #629

LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #631

you do realize that restorefreedom Oct 2015 #626

The extra money you pay for what? Education? randys1 Oct 2015 #403

Yes rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #520

Also rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #521

that's very simplistic hfojvt Oct 2015 #583

it's kinda funny hfojvt Oct 2015 #582

You sound rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #588

you sound yourself hfojvt Oct 2015 #595

Amazing I'm in 100% agreement with you on something. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #423

Is it fair to mandate FMLA when some people don't have families? Brickbat Oct 2015 #2

thats why there should be an equivalent benefit imo restorefreedom Oct 2015 #16

Being home with a new baby is not really time away from work. Chemisse Oct 2015 #432

i have no doubt about that. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #438

But it is time away from the work you are being paid for. cabyio Oct 2015 #630

Yes. We all pay school taxes, too. tabasco Oct 2015 #95

Why should i have to pay for sick people, when im healthy? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #205

i don.t agree with health insurance as it is restorefreedom Oct 2015 #215

The entire premise of health insurance is that the healthy people pay for the sick. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #221

actually, i believe in single payer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #226

I believe in single payer, too. But i also realize that chasing after "fairness" in such situations Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #233

agree with you on single payer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #236

You have the wrong insurance company mythology Oct 2015 #354

wow that sounds great restorefreedom Oct 2015 #355

Breast cancer survivor here. phylny Oct 2015 #405

FMLA is Family AND Medical Leave Act - it applies to the individual as well REP Oct 2015 #284

Same here Betty88 Oct 2015 #408

Good point. Chemisse Oct 2015 #434

I took 10 weeks to help my mom. She did die but what cherished moments yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #439

sorry about your mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #442

Thank you yeoman6987 Oct 2015 #445

my mom is still with us but is getting older restorefreedom Oct 2015 #448

That certainly is still a benefit for all, though a very sad one to have to go through davidpdx Oct 2015 #508

Do you have parents that could end up needing care? Ilsa Oct 2015 #300

Yes, it can be. Brickbat Oct 2015 #307

Family leave Sanity Claws Oct 2015 #3

Thanks for answering this JustAnotherGen Oct 2015 #6

I felt I was lucky enough to work for a company that allowed a non-paid leave MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #426

i agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #430

That's very kind of you, thank you. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #455

thanks, you too :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #459

Good answer and makes sense. Thanks. n/t Hepburn Oct 2015 #365

You notice your response didn't fit the narrative/agenda, so no response from the OP. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #420

you do realize that the op restorefreedom Oct 2015 #427

The intent of parental leave is to care for and bond with their children liberal N proud Oct 2015 #4

"What to childless people have that they need extra time for?" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #10

It's saying that caring for a child takes more time than not liberal N proud Oct 2015 #18

there are other worthwhile ways to invest in the community restorefreedom Oct 2015 #29

I think it is probably impossible for you to understand if you are not a parent liberal N proud Oct 2015 #131

We are not talking about the FMLA which gives everyone job protection Squinch Oct 2015 #561

Sanctimonius child-cult bullshit. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #604

It's called experience - the EXPERIENCE of raising a child liberal N proud Oct 2015 #608

It is not time off. Chemisse Oct 2015 #440

it is still an issue of equal compensation restorefreedom Oct 2015 #443

The choice people make to have children, Chemisse Oct 2015 #463

that is one option restorefreedom Oct 2015 #468

Forget talking to you. Clearly you don't have a view that extends beyond yourself. Chemisse Oct 2015 #471

not true at all, but i realize restorefreedom Oct 2015 #473

How do you know? cabyio Oct 2015 #635

^^This^^ dog_lovin_dem Oct 2015 #500

If more people chose not to have children we would all be much better off. Squinch Oct 2015 #562

IT IS cabyio Oct 2015 #634

You have extra time to not change diapers, not get up at 3:00 in the morning snooper2 Oct 2015 #38

what about the term "personal choice" do you not understand? bbgrunt Oct 2015 #94

+ 100 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #103

it's not a personal choice for the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #108

we are not going to agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #111

you really aren't agreeing with anybody in this thread CreekDog Oct 2015 #167

It is a personal choice for the child? Crunchy Frog Oct 2015 #244

i don't remember anyone suggesting it was. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #251

Wow laundry_queen Oct 2015 #348

i never said the child had a choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #350

+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #531

Family leave, parental etc haikugal Oct 2015 #7

Parent vs Non Parent Rebubula Oct 2015 #8

that is certainly one argument restorefreedom Oct 2015 #19

I'm interested in genuine ideas about how this could be implemented in a way that is fair to everyo catnhatnh Oct 2015 #9

not the same restorefreedom Oct 2015 #14

How do you even it out for people who upaloopa Oct 2015 #11

A clean house? nt Codeine Oct 2015 #12

Every weekend morning ret5hd Oct 2015 #25

Saturday nites with friends ret5hd Oct 2015 #28

R rated movies at home ret5hd Oct 2015 #30

I could go on and on! ret5hd Oct 2015 #31

I gave tidiness, spending money, and the extra bedroom. Codeine Oct 2015 #196

when I was 11 hfojvt Oct 2015 #397

have you actually SEEN my bachelor pad? hfojvt Oct 2015 #395

Childless adults get more SLEEP and more disposable income. ; ) blm Oct 2015 #15

I am childfree get the red out Oct 2015 #17

i like the idea of a bigger tent approach restorefreedom Oct 2015 #22

+1 nt hifiguy Oct 2015 #27

very fair-minded approach. bbgrunt Oct 2015 #99

thx :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #102

I agree get the red out Oct 2015 #279

completely understandable. :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #286

I want time off when my dogs are sick and/or dying Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #20

exactly restorefreedom Oct 2015 #34

I understand that you've never had children demwing Oct 2015 #40

There are lots of insensitive things that people say about childfree people alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #60

Imagine that! A Bernie supporter and a Hillary supporter agreeing on something demwing Oct 2015 #66

There is no comparison to me Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #71

+100 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #74

+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #227

its not about kids vs pets restorefreedom Oct 2015 #72

Thanks n/t Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #78

I wasn't commenting on that alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #81

no one has to take away from parental love restorefreedom Oct 2015 #85

And I know what it's like to lose a child demwing Oct 2015 #106

i am sorry about your loss. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #112

thank you demwing Oct 2015 #118

As the alcibiades_mystery Oct 2015 #114

I nearly did not demwing Oct 2015 #115

So sorry for your loss Bettie Oct 2015 #176

My heart goes out to any parent that has lost a child demwing Oct 2015 #210

I've lost many pets Prism Oct 2015 #246

Me too. tazkcmo Oct 2015 #617

You never fully recover demwing Oct 2015 #623

So basically you just want more vacation forthemiddle Oct 2015 #161

what is wrong with equal time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #168

No I think I agree with you! forthemiddle Oct 2015 #252

lots of good could be done with it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #253

FYI - I don't disagree here demwing Oct 2015 #269

i think anytime we compare love and care restorefreedom Oct 2015 #271

Damn, you're on to us! Which when I think of it, is petronius Oct 2015 #315

No comparison and Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #67

You may be my long lost sister...LOL davidpdx Oct 2015 #509

I am child-free myself, but please count me out of these whiny, self-absorbed posts CreekDog Oct 2015 #68

I might be misunderstanding, Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #76

Well if you don't consider yourself a victim, then you will not feel slighted CreekDog Oct 2015 #83

it is not really different than what is,available for the most part restorefreedom Oct 2015 #90

Yes, there is jealousy in your post. There is jealousy of something given to benefit a child CreekDog Oct 2015 #96

they should have the time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #98

in other words, you're saying that when they have a baby, they should get 6 weeks to care for it CreekDog Oct 2015 #178

i am saying employees should get some paid time off restorefreedom Oct 2015 #180

so you're saying that if you and they get 4 weeks of vacation per year CreekDog Oct 2015 #187

Oh my gosh no, it's none of my concern why people need time off Holly_Hobby Oct 2015 #190

ugh, mink restorefreedom Oct 2015 #431

nobody's a victim here restorefreedom Oct 2015 #80

The benefit is for the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #86

exactly demwing Oct 2015 #113

It's about equal compensation Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #281

Do you also want permanent income because someone else is disabled elehhhhna Oct 2015 #332

No I dont Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #335

How do you Snow Leopard Oct 2015 #368

There is absolutely no comparison, for you, between your own unique experience being a parent sammythecat Oct 2015 #356

Right... cabyio Oct 2015 #636

how about guinea pigs, how about your garden needs extra attention, snooper2 Oct 2015 #43

it shouldn't matter, that's the point restorefreedom Oct 2015 #52

You are on the side of a losing argument, you want farm subsides for your garden snooper2 Oct 2015 #84

i'm not talking about any of those things. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #93

Umm. Kids or sick family members ar not the same as "other things." Adrahil Oct 2015 #232

we should each get to decide what relationships, beings, or projects restorefreedom Oct 2015 #234

I don't disagree that those things are important. Adrahil Oct 2015 #248

thanks for weighing in with your thoughts. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #250

So, if your co-worker has to take time off Bettie Oct 2015 #302

chemo and babies ....c'mon..false comparison restorefreedom Oct 2015 #312

No. You are saying Bettie Oct 2015 #314

cancer and kids....you don't see a difference restorefreedom Oct 2015 #323

Both are classified as life events Bettie Oct 2015 #336

have a nice evening. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #340

+1000. eom. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #390

You might want to dial it back, stop calling others names, and actually respond to the Squinch Oct 2015 #414

+1 tammywammy Oct 2015 #324

No one is saying anything like that. The OP is saying that a chunk of time that is available Squinch Oct 2015 #412

correct restorefreedom Oct 2015 #416

You've struck some kind of nerve with this one. Squinch Oct 2015 #417

most definitely, which surprises me restorefreedom Oct 2015 #422

I am surprised at it too. I am not sure what they think the cost to them would be. Or why Squinch Oct 2015 #425

don't know but from what i have seen restorefreedom Oct 2015 #444

There seems to be a line of reasoning that says, Squinch Oct 2015 #446

the benefits such as more time, disposable income, etc restorefreedom Oct 2015 #451

I am also surprised at some of the hostility toward the OP here. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #533

Yes, the hostility is pretty extreme and illogical, and seems to me to border on hysteria. Squinch Oct 2015 #540

I agree with you on all points. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #541

My favorite is the poster who says, "You don't need it so you don't get it, so deal with it." Squinch Oct 2015 #558

This is actually a good illustration of why giving everyone a chunk of time to use at their Squinch Oct 2015 #411

the extra work often gets overlooked restorefreedom Oct 2015 #418

Really, I think it would be of benefit to everyone. If any of us gets sick ourselves, we can only Squinch Oct 2015 #424

thanks. i have tried numerous times to stress the point restorefreedom Oct 2015 #436

Exactly! smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #534

The FMLA actually covers tending to sick relatives, and covers us all for continuing Squinch Oct 2015 #556

I think it would be great if everyone were allotted time to do volunteer work davidpdx Oct 2015 #510

Did Joe choose to get cancer? Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #605

I took "family leave" to care for a guinea pig with broken teeth Sen. Walter Sobchak Oct 2015 #107

I support this flamingdem Oct 2015 #329

My last boss was ONLY great about my sick/ dying cat. When it came to losing a dear friend..... bettyellen Oct 2015 #58

that is interesting... restorefreedom Oct 2015 #65

I fucking love my dog, but that's rediculous LeftyMom Oct 2015 #101

The point is nobody should be telling other people restorefreedom Oct 2015 #105

That's PTO. LeftyMom Oct 2015 #116

+1 HuckleB Oct 2015 #384

Not really cabyio Oct 2015 #637

I agree with that. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #217

The schneid. Squadoosh, zip, el zilcho and nada. hifiguy Oct 2015 #21

What's next? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #23

+1 gollygee Oct 2015 #55

^^ This ^^ Myrina Oct 2015 #165

So everyone should be paying fuel tax then, and not just drivers, right? N/T beevul Oct 2015 #303

Are they buying fuel? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #352

They already do laundry_queen Oct 2015 #353

Having fewer children is ultimately Facility Inspector Oct 2015 #518

Stay classy Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #550

Eminently classy, indeed Facility Inspector Oct 2015 #551

Insults? Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #552

This patent gets passed over for promotion in exchange for parental leave. RandySF Oct 2015 #24

What do we give people who never get sick and never use their sick leave? Xithras Oct 2015 #26

many employers are moving towards a pto system restorefreedom Oct 2015 #37

The PTO model is awful. Xithras Oct 2015 #53

PTO is awful! tammywammy Oct 2015 #193

You are most likely due Lonusca Oct 2015 #202

Nope. Xithras Oct 2015 #371

You may want to consult an employment attorney Lonusca Oct 2015 #407

who does their work then they are gone 21+ days? Skittles Oct 2015 #285

My kid was a few years ago. xmas74 Oct 2015 #333

Parents are making future tax payers The2ndWheel Oct 2015 #32

They are also potentially making more drains on our tax dollars. smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #535

even if you don't have children KT2000 Oct 2015 #33

You really want to go down the path that any government benefit extended to one group onenote Oct 2015 #35

being blind is not a voluntary life choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #39

The leave is to benefit the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #48

No it's not. It's a benefit that parents have. Iris Oct 2015 #494

neither is being deaf onenote Oct 2015 #56

you said in your OP that you weren't knocking those who have kids and aren't trying to pit liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #239

how else would you characterize it other than to say it's a choice? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #245

I'm sure you don't mean this way but it's like when we as liberals defend child liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #268

you are right, i don't mean it that way restorefreedom Oct 2015 #270

But did the children ask to be born? You realize it's for their benefit also? kcr Oct 2015 #370

not trying to take the benefit away from the kids restorefreedom Oct 2015 #373

Your intent doesn't matter kcr Oct 2015 #374

i think the climate could definitely change restorefreedom Oct 2015 #376

Maybe. Ask when it changes. Until then n/t kcr Oct 2015 #378

This message was self-deleted by its author Chemisse Oct 2015 #449

It's a choice that benefits society. Chemisse Oct 2015 #450

i dont disagree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #452

You do realize that the cry for 'me too' jeopardizes parental leave? Chemisse Oct 2015 #456

it is not whenever the whim strikes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #461

It is a choice whether or not to have a child davidpdx Oct 2015 #511

Sick leave is a benefit also but not all get sick. TBF Oct 2015 #36

that's why a general PTO system works best restorefreedom Oct 2015 #42

Bernie doesn't support anything you're posting here CreekDog Oct 2015 #133

Problem is that "PTO" usually isn't enough for anyone who has a family or needs extended sick leave. haele Oct 2015 #149

thanks for sharing that restorefreedom Oct 2015 #159

So sick people can use all their time just to survive, and never get time to get better. HuckleB Oct 2015 #383

i don't have a problem restorefreedom Oct 2015 #387

the leave is for the benefit of the child CreekDog Oct 2015 #41

i'm not against the leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #45

so you're saying you want leave in order to take care of a child? CreekDog Oct 2015 #54

No one missed that part. This is an benefit for EMPLOYEES. The child is not an employee. Iris Oct 2015 #495

Wait, I've heard this before, I hope you aren't going to complain next that your childless taxes FSogol Oct 2015 #44

I am happy to pay for public schools restorefreedom Oct 2015 #47

"I really don't see the issue" tkmorris Oct 2015 #121

what is wrong with a plan of benefits restorefreedom Oct 2015 #124

so at tax time, are you going to complain that parents are getting larger refunds than you? CreekDog Oct 2015 #183

i have never been dissatisfied with my refund. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #212

It's not like parents are sitting home eating bonbons. Laffy Kat Oct 2015 #46

Exactly. stranger81 Oct 2015 #259

Yes! And the same can be said for caring for a sick parent or other loved one. Laffy Kat Oct 2015 #297

You could look at it this way ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #49

i completely agree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #63

do you want the same amount of leave and in exchange CreekDog Oct 2015 #50

what about people who work in soup kitchens? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #61

ok, then do you support mandatory vacation time as they have in Europe and Canada? CreekDog Oct 2015 #70

what is wrong with it? nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #75

nothing, that's the leave you're looking for, support that kind of law CreekDog Oct 2015 #125

are you seriously suggesting restorefreedom Oct 2015 #128

I'm saying the purpose of parental leave is to care for children CreekDog Oct 2015 #132

why not just call it "leave" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #139

because the purpose is to give parents additional leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #141

Not Canada laundry_queen Oct 2015 #357

sounds like canada restorefreedom Oct 2015 #447

I don't get what the problem is. Squinch Oct 2015 #435

+ 1 and glad you are ok now. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #441

We get to have other peoples' children raised with greater resources (in this case, parental time) eShirl Oct 2015 #51

I'm childless and also pay school district taxes Prism Oct 2015 #57

+1 CreekDog Oct 2015 #73

Pakistan, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Russia and every other country in the world except prayin4rain Oct 2015 #59

Childless and happy to support family leave. It's going to help create a more humane workplace and bettyellen Oct 2015 #62

+1 CreekDog Oct 2015 #162

Parental leave is a benefit to society... SidDithers Oct 2015 #64

no right winger here restorefreedom Oct 2015 #79

sounds Libertarian actually CreekDog Oct 2015 #87

As a childless person what I'd like to get is temp coverage for my staff who are out on FMLA. Gidney N Cloyd Oct 2015 #69

Here in Canada laundry_queen Oct 2015 #358

No doubt, many people lacking children also complain about paying school taxes LanternWaste Oct 2015 #77

that is a false argument for many reasons restorefreedom Oct 2015 #82

Your premise is lacking relevant information LanternWaste Oct 2015 #88

I like it, as a teacher without my own children. Starry Messenger Oct 2015 #89

You want fair? If/When the law is passed, adopt and/or foster a child CreekDog Oct 2015 #91

Douchebag leave? nt LexVegas Oct 2015 #92

Hey, if it's PAID douchebag leave, count me in! nt JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 2015 #192

They should get extra money for extra duties if people take time off for whatever reason. alarimer Oct 2015 #97

yes, the bucket idea restorefreedom Oct 2015 #100

because you're purposefully ignoring responses which invalidate your original premise. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #104

tell me what is unfair restorefreedom Oct 2015 #109

I haven't said anything is unfair LanternWaste Oct 2015 #117

i'm being completely rational thank you restorefreedom Oct 2015 #122

As above (purposfully ignored), child leave incentivizes labor market attachment LanternWaste Oct 2015 #126

it is focused in fairness restorefreedom Oct 2015 #129

A cafeteria plan as you say Bettie Oct 2015 #310

the sick/recovery from childbirth restorefreedom Oct 2015 #316

Why can't I take FMLA just because I don't have cancer? LeftyMom Oct 2015 #110

blatantly false comparison restorefreedom Oct 2015 #119

Smoking causes cancer. Smoking is a life choice. LanternWaste Oct 2015 #120

To be that person ... It doesn't have to be cancer to use FMLA REP Oct 2015 #294

I think you won the internet tonight Bettie Oct 2015 #311

The knowledge that they won't be the ones who are GoCubsGo Oct 2015 #123

great response, thanks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #127

All one has to do is remind oneself GoCubsGo Oct 2015 #194

i am sure its no vaca restorefreedom Oct 2015 #249

Paid family leave is for everyone, not just parents frazzled Oct 2015 #130

Yes, exactly this. Very well said. MerryBlooms Oct 2015 #274

Promotions. Marr Oct 2015 #134

Nothing. Throd Oct 2015 #135

Oh ffs. It's not a goody, like an extra piece of cake. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #136

No shit RandySF Oct 2015 #138

well aren't you a fan of elevated discourse restorefreedom Oct 2015 #145

yes, people should get vacation time in addition to parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #154

i also support both types restorefreedom Oct 2015 #164

I'd be happy to widen the law for volunteers to wipe asses and shovel food into mouths Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #155

sadly, there are many neglected ones who need that kind of care. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #171

That person might be you. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #186

that's why I think that family leaves should be generous restorefreedom Oct 2015 #228

It should be generous in the face of need and emergency Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #273

I have no problem with Social Security, Medicaid, or unemployment. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #277

No, I nailed your entire thing in about 8 words. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #189

bwahahahahaha restorefreedom Oct 2015 #218

It would appear Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #225

have a nice day! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #229

For the Win! Myrina Oct 2015 #170

Wel, the only way to make it completely fair Bettie Oct 2015 #137

You get someone funding your Social Security and Medicare when you retire jeff47 Oct 2015 #140

i guess that is something nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #146

some additional prespectives restorefreedom Oct 2015 #142

Why won't you answer why you will not make yourself eligible for the leave by having a kid CreekDog Oct 2015 #147

I don't have to justify my reasons for not having a child restorefreedom Oct 2015 #153

Nobody cares why you choose not to have a child, just stop asking for parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #157

simple solution restorefreedom Oct 2015 #182

if we had nationally guaranteed leave time for vacation CreekDog Oct 2015 #185

i think a few weeks (or whatever i am not a dr) recuperative time for mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #230

how about government mandated maternity leave? CreekDog Oct 2015 #339

actually it is about expansion, not reduction restorefreedom Oct 2015 #342

i asked a question: government required parental leave, government required vacation and sick time CreekDog Oct 2015 #343

if by required restorefreedom Oct 2015 #345

That is the one good point that has come out of this thread davidpdx Oct 2015 #514

A better society. (n/t) Iggo Oct 2015 #143

We get to do their work while they're on leave. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #144

i tried not to even go there restorefreedom Oct 2015 #148

it's an issue. in most countries the workload is reasonable so people can do a little extra geek tragedy Oct 2015 #150

yes, and without additional compensation no doubt. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #175

Where do you work? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #208

legal field. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #211

So- this is a serious question, not snark- how does family leave impact your work situation? Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #213

my area not so much because it's several attorneys per case geek tragedy Oct 2015 #219

And in return, that child grows up to pay the taxes that will support you. jeff47 Oct 2015 #151

but we paid into the system as well. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #156

You get out more than you pay in. jeff47 Oct 2015 #163

that's an awfully attenuated, theoretical payback nt geek tragedy Oct 2015 #158

And it's how Social Security and Medicare work. jeff47 Oct 2015 #169

technically, them paying to SS and Medicare is payback for my paying into SS geek tragedy Oct 2015 #209

Why is it up to them to pay you back for helping people who died before they were born? jeff47 Oct 2015 #214

because presumably they'll have the generation behind them paying into it. geek tragedy Oct 2015 #220

And while that is supposed to be good for them, it isn't good for you? jeff47 Oct 2015 #243

+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #536

yeah. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #172

MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAA Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #206

what is funny? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #231

....All us parents chillaxing with our extra parent goodies, laughing at the childfree suckers. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #235

ahhhhhh. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #237

Overtime. :) nt BlueCheese Oct 2015 #152

yup Skittles Oct 2015 #241

I'm child-free, by choice. MineralMan Oct 2015 #160

But should the benefits you receive be based on need? Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #282

Pretty much, yes. MineralMan Oct 2015 #298

Have to disagree Somethingtosay Oct 2015 #304

OK. I have expanded on this and have posted it as a new thread MineralMan Oct 2015 #305

Vactions. Vacations and uninterrupted sleep. n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #166

Not having to stay up all night caring for a crying newborn is our reward Kaleva Oct 2015 #173

You get the next generation whose taxes will pay your SS and Medicare and other benefits Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #174

I totally agree with you. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #177

:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #179

I don't think it is necessary for childfree people to get 'compensation' for parental leave KitSileya Oct 2015 #181

Some people could use it to take care of elderly parents csziggy Oct 2015 #184

I get to stay at work, collect OT, and be first in line for promotions. MindPilot Oct 2015 #188

As long as it is "family" leave and not parental leave, I think it is fair for everyone Blasphemer Oct 2015 #191

what do you get with no kids???? loaded question of the ages....sanity??? fewer drains on your dembotoz Oct 2015 #195

They get other people's children to keep the Social Security system and Medicare solvent. pnwmom Oct 2015 #197

Yeah, When people go "If you get time off to care for your sick 3 year old child, i should get Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #198

whiskers will most certainly restorefreedom Oct 2015 #263

and of course you "didn't want to to pit people with children against people without children" Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #359

nice graphic lol restorefreedom Oct 2015 #363

I thought August was dedicated to discussion on the A-bomb GummyBearz Oct 2015 #619

coincidentally enough, in August I put a picture of a guy messing with the tip of a warhead Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #620

we get uninterrupted sleep for 8 hours?? La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2015 #199

"You get time off for open heart surgery, i should get time off to go to a baseball game" Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #200

apples and oranges.nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #264

Well... They get no child rearing responsibilities. Xyzse Oct 2015 #201

You answered your own question in the first line of your post. Vinca Oct 2015 #203

Nothing in life is fair, get over it. Pisces Oct 2015 #204

in our corporate run, vulture capitalist system, restorefreedom Oct 2015 #265

Life isn't fair anywhere. Someone always has it worse or better. Pisces Oct 2015 #293

true. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #296

OP trying to troll? The benefit is for the children, not the parents pediatricmedic Oct 2015 #207

actually one of the things I would hope people would do restorefreedom Oct 2015 #256

The whole objective of family leave is for people to take off work to care for family, not to take liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #216

i see what you are saying restorefreedom Oct 2015 #222

I agree with that. Someone upthread said they took time off work for their dying dog liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #224

yes, that would be the right and humane thing imo restorefreedom Oct 2015 #238

I don't look at it that way Skittles Oct 2015 #240

of course it does restorefreedom Oct 2015 #247

Why do we need anything? This isn't about some for me some for you BainsBane Oct 2015 #254

disabled people aren't disabled by choice restorefreedom Oct 2015 #261

That sort of leave is important BainsBane Oct 2015 #272

personally I would rather see an equivalent leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #275

I'm glad somebody brought this up. I plan to not have any children when I get married. BlueJazz Oct 2015 #255

and would you like a general "paid leave" benefit restorefreedom Oct 2015 #258

For me personally, I would'nt need any compensation or any for my wife but I was ... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #262

there are lots of ways to have family restorefreedom Oct 2015 #267

Duh..I didn't realize you were the original poster. Sorry. If it were up to me, I'd average out ... BlueJazz Oct 2015 #280

i like your idea about the package restorefreedom Oct 2015 #287

FMLA is for individuals who get ill, or need to take care of family members too REP Oct 2015 #289

Well, I didn't know that was available in that situation.. Thanks! BlueJazz Oct 2015 #291

It's Family AND Medical Leave Act REP Oct 2015 #292

And to care for aging, sick parents. nt Ilsa Oct 2015 #301

Yup, parents qualify as "family members" REP Oct 2015 #306

If you don't have kids, what you get is called "afternoons." Bucky Oct 2015 #257

:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #266

When are we able-bodied people going to get our special parking spaces? Attorney in Texas Oct 2015 #260

Right after discrimination against white evangelicals is prosecuted and Christmas is saved. eom. Bad Thoughts Oct 2015 #283

sleep Demonaut Oct 2015 #276

:) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #278

Why are you sporting a Bernie logo, Bernie supports parental leave CreekDog Oct 2015 #299

this is not about bernie or hillary restorefreedom Oct 2015 #309

What do we get? Our Childfree lives! REP Oct 2015 #288

Thank you for explaining FMLA Pool Hall Ace Oct 2015 #334

No kidding (so to speak) REP Oct 2015 #392

The privilege of having those kids grow up to be your future doctor or nurse? mainer Oct 2015 #290

to spend their income on wants instead of needs... ileus Oct 2015 #295

That is a stereotype get the red out Oct 2015 #360

yes, and assumption creates unnecessary restorefreedom Oct 2015 #453

I've cared for sick family members that were not my kids. Ilsa Oct 2015 #308

You are confusing "fair" and "equal". uppityperson Oct 2015 #313

actually, as a self employed person restorefreedom Oct 2015 #317

Agree. Couples and couples with children already get flamingdem Oct 2015 #318

true and i purposely tried restorefreedom Oct 2015 #319

Yeah, it's one group that flamingdem Oct 2015 #327

yup. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #328

The ability to sleep through the night without waking up every two hours to feed and change the kid? MohRokTah Oct 2015 #320

that is true! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #321

They get to sleep at night. dilby Oct 2015 #322

i am sure it isnt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #325

Yes and any other issue they have dilby Oct 2015 #326

this article makes a few good points restorefreedom Oct 2015 #330

not this childfree person. i don't spend my time resenting people who have children CreekDog Oct 2015 #338

no resentment towards parents restorefreedom Oct 2015 #341

Right. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #362

stating fact does not make one a hater restorefreedom Oct 2015 #364

"Or a sick family member". xmas74 Oct 2015 #331

yes i think broadening it out restorefreedom Oct 2015 #344

What everyone is calling "maternity leave" xmas74 Oct 2015 #399

it definitely does benefit us all in some form. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #458

Dedicated maternity isn't common at all. xmas74 Oct 2015 #597

to hear some it is different but family leave benefits everyone at some point. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #598

Free nights and weekends! struggle4progress Oct 2015 #337

you must be very motivated this year, because you've been a member for 11 years CreekDog Oct 2015 #346

thats an easy one for me to answer restorefreedom Oct 2015 #349

Kind of a low blow davidpdx Oct 2015 #515

The world! Chan790 Oct 2015 #347

good answer! nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #351

They get to sleep through the night Dorian Gray Oct 2015 #361

Full night's sleep, relatively uncomplicated schedules, etc. JHB Oct 2015 #367

Everyone benefits. The fact that childless/childfree can't be grandfathered in is a shame kcr Oct 2015 #369

i do like the idea restorefreedom Oct 2015 #372

It already does kcr Oct 2015 #375

goody. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #379

As a childless adult, I should be given the same benefits. Deadshot Oct 2015 #377

yes, that is what i think too. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #385

good luck getting people to give a crap about the childless hfojvt Oct 2015 #380

it does turn out to be extra restorefreedom Oct 2015 #386

We get to do the parents' work to show we're "team players" jmowreader Oct 2015 #388

yup. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #389

Poverty policies also unfairly favor people with children daredtowork Oct 2015 #391

i never even thought of that connection, good point. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #421

a lifetime free of child rearing expenses. librechik Oct 2015 #393

Not to mention laundry_queen Oct 2015 #572

Sorry, this sounds a lot like the good old Blue_Tires Oct 2015 #394

Unbelievable. . . B Calm Oct 2015 #396

What do healthy people get out of sick leave? DirkGently Oct 2015 #398

parents should have some leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #413

screwed, but it's certainly not a unique occurrence. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #402

true, there are many breaks, such as tax breaks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #415

What do people that don't have deaths in their families get instead of "Bereavement Leave"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #404

illness and death are not optional restorefreedom Oct 2015 #410

It costs so much in time and money to raise even one child, that I think the Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #409

I guess I think it should be expanded. I was my uncle's primary caretaker and any time taken off TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #526

You're making excellent sense here. Yo_Mama Oct 2015 #576

They get to continue to work without interruption. Chemisse Oct 2015 #429

Have you ever taken care of a newborn full time? Warpy Oct 2015 #437

no complaints about people getting time off restorefreedom Oct 2015 #465

That's what weekends are for. Warpy Oct 2015 #469

one or two weeks restorefreedom Oct 2015 #470

It is better for society Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #454

Same thing you get from public schooling; an improved society. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #457

i don't disagree restorefreedom Oct 2015 #467

Reform Social Security to support, rather than penalize, caregiving. elleng Oct 2015 #460

he has a good plan, ellen restorefreedom Oct 2015 #466

Yes he has, restorefreedom, elleng Oct 2015 #472

i am for bernie but i would be lying restorefreedom Oct 2015 #475

I got FMLA when my father was ill joeybee12 Oct 2015 #462

It takes a village. Nt NCTraveler Oct 2015 #474

i don't disagree at all restorefreedom Oct 2015 #477

A lower carbon tax. nt LWolf Oct 2015 #476

+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #478

You think taking time off for caring for a sick parent or child is comparable to a vacation notadmblnd Oct 2015 #479

certainly not. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #480

thank you for the kind words. notadmblnd Oct 2015 #483

most welcome. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #486

not having the heart break of taking care of a sick or dying family member? tandot Oct 2015 #481

sorry about your mom restorefreedom Oct 2015 #482

Thanks, restorefreedom tandot Oct 2015 #484

most welcome restorefreedom Oct 2015 #487

The freedom and lack of responsibility rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #485

no issue with taxes restorefreedom Oct 2015 #488

My point is rjsquirrel Oct 2015 #516

i don't think it is the same restorefreedom Oct 2015 #523

We exist to make babies? smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #538

Oh please sub.theory Oct 2015 #496

Nights of uninterrupted sleep (nt) Recursion Oct 2015 #489

Sounds like this is another form of the arguement that states that.... TheDebbieDee Oct 2015 #490

not at all restorefreedom Oct 2015 #491

Nothing, unfortunately sub.theory Oct 2015 #492

there have been a few interesting suggestions restorefreedom Oct 2015 #497

I'd fully support that sub.theory Oct 2015 #499

i am sure the corps would hate it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #522

We get to live in a society that keeps talented people in the workforce and supports families Iris Oct 2015 #493

i do too restorefreedom Oct 2015 #498

This is exactly what's wrong with our nation. Lyric Oct 2015 #501

Maybe it's the other way around sub.theory Oct 2015 #503

Actually, most people in this thread are saying exactly what you're saying CreekDog Oct 2015 #546

I was thinking more about th general selfishness of the country as of late. Lyric Oct 2015 #640

Peace and quiet and a night in the town! grahamhgreen Oct 2015 #502

Yep! emsimon33 Oct 2015 #505

We get leave to take care of sick & elderly parents emsimon33 Oct 2015 #504

i agree that kids are worth investing in to become good adults restorefreedom Oct 2015 #529

They get "Family Leave." nt kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #512

Simple solution JonathanRackham Oct 2015 #513

many childless people do adopt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #527

Why do you keep playing games with this? I said the same as that poster... CreekDog Oct 2015 #545

everyone with a child should get that leave restorefreedom Oct 2015 #547

I have had a read through the entire thread davidpdx Oct 2015 #517

i agree that fathers also need time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #525

a better community -society for all is what they get. riversedge Oct 2015 #528

i agree kids are worth investing in restorefreedom Oct 2015 #530

Mandated parental leave is definitely good for society. But so is incentivizing having less kids. RedCappedBandit Oct 2015 #532

+1 nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #537

+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #539

Unpaid overtime. KentuckyWoman Oct 2015 #543

yes, it does become a compensation issue restorefreedom Oct 2015 #548

You don't get anything. TheManInTheMac Oct 2015 #544

what about the needs of the kidless? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #549

It's not a fuckin' reward Android3.14 Oct 2015 #553

What do cancer free people get out of their insurance plan covering a co-worker's colon cancer? Hekate Oct 2015 #554

community wellness and mutual support are important restorefreedom Oct 2015 #564

Even in Denmark... coyote Oct 2015 #555

i kind of like "personal leave" restorefreedom Oct 2015 #565

There are lots of reforms needed that would decrease strife over this issue Bradical79 Oct 2015 #557

those reforms would most definitely help restorefreedom Oct 2015 #566

What would Bernie do? He loves the Scandinavians. OTT, what does Ayn Rand have to say? Hekate Oct 2015 #559

bernie supports much more expanded leave, sick time,and vac time restorefreedom Oct 2015 #567

Never having to see the places where human shit and vomit can be. alphafemale Oct 2015 #560

babies aren't the only ones who have to have their shit cleaned restorefreedom Oct 2015 #568

Are you also jealous of people paid for Jury Duty when you are not called? alphafemale Oct 2015 #569

sickness and disability are not life choices, parenting is. not suggesting parents get no leave. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #570

Grow up. alphafemale Oct 2015 #571

most of the kidless people i know restorefreedom Oct 2015 #573

peace and quiet. lol. n/t 2pooped2pop Oct 2015 #563

They get to work overtime... Ino Oct 2015 #574

seems so. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #575

How would have my step-children's lives been if... ReallyIAmAnOptimist Oct 2015 #577

Some people just have to play life as a zero-sum game, though. To them, there is never enough... Hekate Oct 2015 #578

not trying to take any benefits away restorefreedom Oct 2015 #579

It might allow for paid leave for when someone is taking TexasBushwhacker Oct 2015 #580

sorry about your mom. glad to hear you had some time with her. restorefreedom Oct 2015 #581

This is what passes for DU these days? Whoa_Nelly Oct 2015 #589

total mischaracterization of the op and the thread restorefreedom Oct 2015 #591

In my case, the ability to go to Cancun on a whim. Rond Vidar Oct 2015 #599

that is most definitely a perk. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #600

How about just plain family leave? MountainLaurel Oct 2015 #601

i like "personal leave" best restorefreedom Oct 2015 #613

We get tagged to be on-call, and short-shrift on reserving vacation days. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #602

i never saw that bingo before restorefreedom Oct 2015 #614

We don't incentivise people to not have children at this point in time. That would be self Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #607

perhaps i am in the minority restorefreedom Oct 2015 #615

What about ME, what about ME, where's MINE MINE MINE krawhitham Oct 2015 #624

did you even read the thread? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #625

A lot of free time on their normal off hours jberryhill Oct 2015 #627

It isn't unfair to nonparents. Glassunion Oct 2015 #632

That was a beautiful response and Action_Patrol Oct 2015 #638

This thread is really long, Snobblevitch Oct 2015 #633

You get Nothing. You don't need it. This is not kindergarten. n/t Lil Missy Oct 2015 #639

no, its the working world, where compensation counts restorefreedom Oct 2015 #641