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Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)

110. Contrarily, I support full and total solutions. None of them involve guns.

Sat Oct 24, 2015, 05:37 PM

Oct 2015

"Guns" are just a symptom. I think we've been through this before, but I'll say it again; Guns, and gun violence, are a symptom of a much larger superstructure of helplessness, social stigmatization and ostracism, wealth and social inequality and an overall feeling of lack of control and a loss of hope. We could ban every gun in the continent, or wave a magic wand and remove every one of them; Murders, violence, hatred, racism, suicides and violent crime will neither stop nor slow down. The key to approaching gun violence, and by extension criminal violence as a whole, is to develop a solid and lasting infrastructure designed to support and enhance the citizenry by positive action.

I've tried speaking about this at length yet sadly, few "GCRA" folks have any interest. I do my part when I'm not working, such as I can, but there's only so much one man can do. We need a progressive movement, but the divide between the RKBA and GCRA extremists is so vast that I feel any possible solution is permanently out of reach.

Please don't ever make the mistake of assuming I don't work towards solutions. I've spent more time doing volunteer work to that end than I have actually working for money.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] SecularMotion Oct 2015 OP

How many gun groups does this "discussion" board need? villager Oct 2015 #1

Not all self defense sarisataka Oct 2015 #2

Sure. I imagine the folks advocating for the new group can't wait to discuss their judo moves villager Oct 2015 #3

Okinawan Goju-Ryu, thank you kindly. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #4

And I'm sure you've been chomping at the bit in the gungeon to discuss that, instead villager Oct 2015 #5

Gungeon for guns. Currently nothing for Self-Defense or martial arts in general. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #6

Then start a martial arts group. Since the stated purpose for "self defense" was that the gungeon villager Oct 2015 #8

I very well may. That said, Self Defense is a different animal and should have its own subforum. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #11

"Self defense" is currently just an attempt to reboot the gungeon. Change the actual gungeon villager Oct 2015 #14

Have you considered for a moment that you're just wrong? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #19

Hence the discussion being floated in the gungeon? villager Oct 2015 #20

So if the idea was floated in CS or the BOG, the point would be more valid? n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #24

Actually, yes. Given how little validity the gungeon has. villager Oct 2015 #25

Well, sadly, if I were to post in those forums, it'd also break SOP. So that's a no-go. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #27

If it's really going to be mostly martial arts, perhaps you can propose under "sports" for now villager Oct 2015 #32

I never said it'd be all martial arts; That's just one facet. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #35

And it will be one of the least important facets, once you brandish your gun discussions villager Oct 2015 #37

Why bother? The Gungeon is fine as it is. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #41

"The gungeon is fine as it is." villager Oct 2015 #44

You can't discuss "Self defense" because it's not part of the SOP. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #48

But wait -- one of the great apologias for gun proliferation is *self defense* villager Oct 2015 #53

I'm failing to see your point. What's that got to do with a Self Defense group? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #54

Self-defense with weapons can be discussed in RKBA. Start a martial arts group for martial arts. villager Oct 2015 #70

Support groups, training, counselling, domestic violence issues... Want me to continue? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #74

Except that it was proposed in the "shoot people with stuff" forum villager Oct 2015 #77

Again, I'm not particularly understanding your point. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #78

Clearly, there's little point in us going round and round until a TOS is developed/proposed villager Oct 2015 #80

I'd agree with that. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #82

The lack of civility -- as predictable as tomorrow's sun -- finally made me trash the Gungeon. villager Oct 2015 #85

Well, here's to hoping we can make something positive for DU. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #88

Actually, it was first proposed in ATA. N/T beevul Oct 2015 #207

The author of the idea proposes a safe haven away from anti-self defense folks. beevul Oct 2015 #12

^^ This is the obvious truth. pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #22

I think for some... beevul Oct 2015 #43

I do Okinawan Goju-ryu Bonobo Oct 2015 #182

Sadly, no. I've been out of the game for a while, but if I pick it up again, I will be. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #185

Actually there are sarisataka Oct 2015 #7

Good. Let's start a "martial arts" group, specifically villager Oct 2015 #9

The throw is a good basic move REP Oct 2015 #59

and anyone can do it sarisataka Oct 2015 #61

Throw, basic deflection, grip-breaks, all valid and useful. Good topics to discuss. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #62

Jury results: arcane1 Oct 2015 #18

Well, that alert pretty much proves what the "new" forum will really be about villager Oct 2015 #23

You see right through them. I do too. They want DU to become another ar-15.com. Fuck that. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #34

They want to just keep renaming the gungeon to keep forcing their discussions on everyone else villager Oct 2015 #39

"Expressing opinions I disagree with" is not the same as forcing discussion on others friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #100

Funny Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #108

That's because we don't think we're somehow above the rules of DU... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #118

Yes the ones that seem to complain Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #169

Well consider sarisataka Oct 2015 #117

or the favorite group of those proposing the "new" one villager Oct 2015 #134

But who was it sarisataka Oct 2015 #138

We are not the people spamming GD with gun threads. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #163

I would like that :-) -nt Bradical79 Oct 2015 #52

Too bad more of you guys don't realize that when you strap a gun on to go Hoyt Oct 2015 #10

If I strapped on sarisataka Oct 2015 #31

Can of beans or a staff are all you will likely need if you are really interested in self-defense. Hoyt Oct 2015 #45

Interesting you talking about self defence as a 'former" robber.. virginia mountainman Oct 2015 #55

Read it in context. Most of you gunners aren't perceptive/lucid enough to be carrying among us. Hoyt Oct 2015 #60

And you aren't remotely qualified to make that judgement. beevul Oct 2015 #64

Yeah, those who need a gun in their pants to walk down the street Hoyt Oct 2015 #83

More astute than former robbers who can't remember being told in multiples... beevul Oct 2015 #87

Those are your words Hoyt, GGJohn Oct 2015 #101

I used it to make a point with gun nuts making an ignorant assumption why Hoyt Oct 2015 #131

So IOW, you lied. GGJohn Oct 2015 #137

Again, I used it to make a point with people who carry gunz and Hoyt Oct 2015 #142

So, in context, you lied about being a robber. GGJohn Oct 2015 #146

GG, go fondle you gunz. Hoyt Oct 2015 #149

Just about what I expected of you Hoyt, GGJohn Oct 2015 #153

Were you lying at the time? If so, why should we believe you now? If not,... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #145

Used it to make a point with gun lovers, some of whom still beliece Zman is a responsible Hoyt Oct 2015 #147

Given that admission, why should you be believed about *anything*... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #151

I basically asked him the same question and his reply GGJohn Oct 2015 #156

that's all they have Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #171

Under water no less. beevul Oct 2015 #157

so you admit you lied Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #170

"Lied" to make a point to you gunners who lay awake at night trying to think of scenarios Hoyt Oct 2015 #172

yep, seems you lied and now admit it Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #184

Right. You lied. Supposedly to make a point... beevul Oct 2015 #191

Sometimes you just gotta try to get through to people who dream of using their gun on someone. Hoyt Oct 2015 #204

As if theres anyone on DU who fits that description. N/T beevul Oct 2015 #206

Well, this just proves my point, GGJohn Oct 2015 #208

As long as my day sarisataka Oct 2015 #56

I understand that you'd prefer there be just one 'safe haven' group ---- pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #15

Who cares? pintobean Oct 2015 #26

I go there about once a month Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #173

Are the Gungeoneers seeking to take over DU MohRokTah Oct 2015 #13

See post #15 :-) NT pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #16

They're probably upset that so many have their favorite topic forum on "ignore" villager Oct 2015 #17

Agreed. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #21

"I have little to no respect for gun humpers." pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #28

You'll notice only one group brought up guns. It's like they have some sort of fetish for them... nt Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #29

Why would I care what they think? MohRokTah Oct 2015 #30

Good! The lack of concern is mutual! pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #33

Fine, take this crap back to the Gungeon then. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #36

Keep your hate flowing, "pardner".......... pablo_marmol Oct 2015 #38

This thread is MEta and violates GD SOP. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #40

Lies. This OP is within SOP. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #42

This thread was posted by someone on the anti-gun side. N/t beevul Oct 2015 #46

To bring attention to the gunthusiasts proposal for a safe haven gun lovers group, of course. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #49

And we're glad for the attention. There's a lot of folks who support the right to defend one's self. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #50

I get that you'd rather not see one for self defense. beevul Oct 2015 #57

You are blatantly lying about your (and the other gunthusiasts) real reason for supporting it. Electric Monk Oct 2015 #58

Thats dangerously close to calling me a liar ElMo. beevul Oct 2015 #63

Seems like a good time for me to clean out the blocked list for GCRA.... Electric Monk Oct 2015 #65

Are you removing the ones you blocked for self-deleted posts too? N/T beevul Oct 2015 #66

I don't understand the question. Juries delete posts, not group hosts. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #67

Posters self delete posts. You blocked me for a self deleted post, without ever seeing the content. beevul Oct 2015 #69

Irrelevant. Your position is clear, and totally contrary to the GCRA SOP. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #72

Nice try. beevul Oct 2015 #76

stretched past the breaking point Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #178

That should be embarrassing Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #176

and real hosts moderate insulting posts Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #177

well, he does think he is host Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #175

You lot are great at finding cartoons, and poor at getting actual voters to agree with you friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #90

Hilarious, coming from the Jim Webb wing of the Democratic Party. How's that working out for you? Electric Monk Oct 2015 #104

When Mother Jones, of all media outlets, is saying the same thing I am... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #112

I dunno- how's handing the Colorado state Senate to Republicans been working out? friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #141

LOL. GGJohn Oct 2015 #109

The Gungeon is the favorite group of the OP, who also is a host of the GCRA group friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #127

So you think safe havens are a bad idea? hack89 Oct 2015 #164

I think worshipping guns is a bad idea Electric Monk Oct 2015 #166

Cartoons and comedians - the intellectual foundation of DU gun control hack89 Oct 2015 #167

Thats nice, but nobody hereabouts 'worships' guns... beevul Oct 2015 #168

One of those gun groups is a safe haven for gun control members, GGJohn Oct 2015 #106

even a single self deleted post! Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #179

There's only one??? ileus Oct 2015 #125

just one Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #174

The Myth Behind Defensive Gun Ownership - Guns Are More Likely To Do Harm Than Good Electric Monk Oct 2015 #47

A great topic for a Self Defense group! Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #68

Actually, it already gets discussed in DU, for those gungeoneers who venture into daylight. villager Oct 2015 #71

Cool. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #79

I'm not likely to un-trash the gungeon anytime soon. villager Oct 2015 #81

Jumping in on the "Local" gun homicide thing... Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #84

Interesting that you concede there are so many gun homicides it would "clutter" the forums. villager Oct 2015 #86

I wasn't talking about homicides; I was talking about all local news. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #91

Perhaps then, being a national issue, we should set aside sophistry about the gun violence then? villager Oct 2015 #92

Well, that's my point, mate. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #95

"most 'local gun stories' don't matter" villager Oct 2015 #96

It's a matter of perspective, mate. Sadly, our views can never cross. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #98

Well, certainly seeing it as "inevitable" keeps you from having to advocate any real solutions villager Oct 2015 #105

Contrarily, I support full and total solutions. None of them involve guns. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #110

Yes. Address everything *but* the guns. villager Oct 2015 #114

Because they're not the problem. They're a symptom. Realizing that is the first step to progress. nt Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #116

and cigarettes don't cause cancer, people choosing to smoke them does Electric Monk Oct 2015 #126

Oh, Elmo... How I wish I could see the world through your innocent, wide eyes. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #129

At least I don't see it through your condescending ones! villager Oct 2015 #136

Come now, Villager. I respond like for like. You were civil to me, I was civil back. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #139

"Elmo" is like for like? (Or was that not directed at me?) villager Oct 2015 #181

Elmo is short for Electronic Monk. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #190

Calling me Elmo is clearly intended to be rude. If you want shorthand use EM. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #192

If you ask it, then it will be so, E.M. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #194

An instructive mistake on my part then, but I appreciate the acknowledgement villager Oct 2015 #193

Everyone makes mistakes, mate. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #195

I wasn't (just) talking about on DU... Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #148

Lizzie, you are one of the few gunners not on my own ignore list -- because you actually do discuss villager Oct 2015 #187

Just let me know when it's up and going... Iggo Oct 2015 #51

San Diego's a nice little town. But is it worth a whole forum? Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2015 #73

SD stands for 'Spasmodic dysphonia'. randome Oct 2015 #75

Off topic, GGJohn Oct 2015 #113

Oh, golly shucks! randome Oct 2015 #140

Why do you care so much? hack89 Oct 2015 #89

He may actually find the idea has merit. Gods know he's giving us great publicity. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #93

Thats not the fear. beevul Oct 2015 #99

X-posting from the gungeon to GD? pintobean Oct 2015 #94

A nifty little workaround to "No guns in GD", ne? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #97

Thanks for conceding that it really is just about guns, with self-defence simply a pretence. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #107

Simple. SecMo cross-posts, the GCRA loonies swarm and make it about guns. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #111

So... pintobean Oct 2015 #132

Hammer, nail, head, and all that. beevul Oct 2015 #143

You already have thehighroad.org, ar-15.com, nationalgunforum.com, firearmstalk.com, etc. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #150

I do? beevul Oct 2015 #155

All of which are explicitly about guns, not general self-defense, and also tend to regard even... friendly_iconoclast Oct 2015 #162

Hammer, nail, head. beevul Oct 2015 #165

They strenuously object pintobean Oct 2015 #158

I'm up for an SSD group IDemo Oct 2015 #102

I was hoping that was the joke you were going for. :P n/tB Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #103

SSD? johnp3907 Oct 2015 #189

No more gun groups! B Calm Oct 2015 #115

i guess if he wants more paranoid wingnuts JI7 Oct 2015 #119

Is self defense limited sarisataka Oct 2015 #120

when it's mostly gun nuts and needing a forum for it JI7 Oct 2015 #121

That sounds like yes /nt sarisataka Oct 2015 #122

So does anyone have any actual objection of substance to a Self Defense Group? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #123

self defense from what ? JI7 Oct 2015 #130

Domestic Violence, Rape, Robbery, Theft, Home Invasions, Assault, Battery, et cetera. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #133

aren't those crimes ? JI7 Oct 2015 #159

Of course. Does that invalidate the need for effective defense against them? n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #160

i just think of people like george zimmerman JI7 Oct 2015 #161

And I think of people like Taja DeJesus. Different priorities, I guess. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #183

so it is about victim blaming as the other poster said JI7 Oct 2015 #186

Wanting people to be able to defend themselves is blaming the victim? Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #188

people know they have a right to defend themselves. it's the zimmerman JI7 Oct 2015 #196

Yet very few who know they have that right exercise it successfully. Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #197

yup victim blaming JI7 Oct 2015 #199

If that's victim blaming, so be it. Everyone has a right to life and self defense. n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #201

Sounds like a great idea. ileus Oct 2015 #124

Exclusively to gunthusiasts. The only pro voices here are gungeon regulars. Guns guns guns. nt Electric Monk Oct 2015 #128

Personally, I'd be more interested in non-gun threads in such a group. Lizzie Poppet Oct 2015 #152

Wrong again. pintobean Oct 2015 #180

Multiple posts in this thread prove you wrong. beevul Oct 2015 #198

Agreed. tammywammy Oct 2015 #135

People behind bars shouldn't concerned with safety? NobodyHere Oct 2015 #200

People behind bars are not responsible for their own safety like the rest of us are. beevul Oct 2015 #205

They're in a cell with plenty of guards keeping them safe. ileus Oct 2015 #211

I thought you meant Social Democrat. leftyladyfrommo Oct 2015 #144

Self defense or a forum to "blame the victim?" mentalsolstice Oct 2015 #154

Huh? If you want that type of discussion there is a web site discussion board that is for you... madinmaryland Oct 2015 #202

Universal right to life and self defense isn't Democratic? Hm... n/t Decoy of Fenris Oct 2015 #203

So you decide what belongs on a DEMOCRATIC discussion board? GGJohn Oct 2015 #209

So real Democrats don't own guns? Really. Nt hack89 Oct 2015 #210

Most gunthusiasts aren't Dems, and most Dems aren't gunthusiasts. That's a fact. Electric Monk Oct 2015 #212