General Discussion

Whisp

(24,096 posts)

80. lots of them out there, isn't there?

Reply to Pachamama (Reply #48)

Mon Dec 26, 2011, 04:18 PM

Dec 2011

just because dick is a dick, does that mean Manning should be an irresponsible one?

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Bradley Manning: A Hero, Not a Traitor [View all] Better Believe It Dec 2011 OP

Not my definition of a hero dailey010 Dec 2011 #1

"If Manning had committed war crimes instead of exposing them, he would be a free man today." Better Believe It Dec 2011 #13

oh ffs....this is so much bull. His actions were wrong Sheepshank Dec 2011 #132

The right-wing homophobic lies and attacks on Bradley Manning Better Believe It Dec 2011 #20

Could You Please Explain... WillyT Dec 2011 #24

But how is releasing 260,000 diplomatic cables evidence of a war crime? cstanleytech Dec 2011 #107

The cables revealed sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #128

Seems to me he had other options such as contacting cstanleytech Dec 2011 #131

Yes, he could have done that. But he did report to his superior officer, the fact that detainees sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #136

"But do you think the material would ever have been made public had he done that?" cstanleytech Dec 2011 #143

I think we do know. The actions of this government when it comes to war crimes, tells us what sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #153

Why did he ignore the Military Whistleblower Protection Act? hack89 Dec 2011 #110

Maybe He Felt HE Would Be Ignored... And I Think He Was Pretty Much Right... WillyT Dec 2011 #216

The law says he can go to any member of Congress. hack89 Dec 2011 #220

What oath did you take when you enlisted? girl gone mad Dec 2011 #84

Manning admits he released classified information into the public domain. That is against the law. MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #2

He witnessed war crimes. He reported them. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #50

Except he ignored the legal way to report them. hack89 Dec 2011 #111

Don't bring facts into this. nt msanthrope Dec 2011 #193

no hero. criminal. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #3

And do you also believe that Daniel Ellsberg was a traitor? How many years do you think Better Believe It Dec 2011 #7

Ellsberg knew exactly what he was releasing - Manning did not. hack89 Dec 2011 #14

So if Manning released the video of U.S. troops gunning down civilians what lives were endangered? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #23

It was the tens of thousand of others things he never bothered to screen that concern me. hack89 Dec 2011 #27

Such as ...... Better Believe It Dec 2011 #52

Are you saying he read everything he sent to Wikileaks? Really? nt hack89 Dec 2011 #55

Manning did not release those files to the public but to a clearinghouse. EFerrari Dec 2011 #32

So what? That is a meaningless distinction hack89 Dec 2011 #35

Let's hope that many others follow Manning and Ellsberg's example of courage, patriotism and heroism Better Believe It Dec 2011 #62

Nope, it's not meaningless in the least EFerrari Dec 2011 #83

Unfortunately for Manning, Wikileaks used him like a Kleenex hack89 Dec 2011 #98

So, did the NY Times use Ellsberg like a Kleenex? Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #101

He did prosecute the editors hack89 Dec 2011 #108

No. Nixon sought prior restraint but did not prosecute the Times for publishing. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #116

OK. Manning is still no Ellsberg hack89 Dec 2011 #122

Lol, Manning is an editor and publisher of a multiple award-winning International News Organization. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #129

You mean Assange? Well then why is he running away? hack89 Dec 2011 #133

Running away? Is the US looking for him? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #137

I am sure that make Manning feel much better. hack89 Dec 2011 #142

Actually Wikileaks has donated money to Mannings defense. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #156

Don't really have a point - Manning going to jail is good enough. hack89 Dec 2011 #160

And so will the NYT, the Washington Post, The Guardian and all other newspapers sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #178

I don't think the Swedes are after Assange for news reporting hack89 Dec 2011 #189

Well, if you ignore the toppling of dictators, eg, he 'has accomplished nothing'. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #198

Keep believing that if it makes you feel better hack89 Dec 2011 #201

There is a worldwide groundswell of outrage over Manning's treatment. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #203

You say that but I don't see it hack89 Dec 2011 #205

P.J. Crowley is not a 'fringe group'. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #212

And how many months ago was that? hack89 Dec 2011 #219

He may not have been a blip on your conscience, but he most certainly has been sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #223

Still don't see it hack89 Dec 2011 #225

You mean like the BBC, The Guardian sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #226

Got it - Americans are stupid. hack89 Dec 2011 #229

Wikileaks donated a paltry 15k, while it raked in millions, according to WAU Holland. msanthrope Dec 2011 #195

Manning never claimed he did not know to whom he was releasing the sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #202

I blame Wikileaks, for taking in millions, but only donating 15k to Manning. msanthrope Dec 2011 #221

You are free to blame whoever you want. Wikileaks has a staff of 2,000 sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #222

Kindly cite the paid staff of Wikileaks figure? Because the WAU Holland Report msanthrope Dec 2011 #224

Manning did know what he was releasing. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #51

So he read everyone and understood the contents? Don't think so. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #53

He was analyst, he did read what he released. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #64

He stole 260,000 messages - none of which had anything to do with his job as a low level analyst. hack89 Dec 2011 #71

I am confused, I thought this was a simple case of cstanleytech Dec 2011 #113

It's to paint him as reckless, as if concealing State Department cables EFerrari Dec 2011 #86

he stole over 250k cables to see if he could find a gotcha. not the same. at all. or kinda. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #40

Actually, that is not what happened. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #54

actually, ya, it is exactly what happened. downloaded a mess of stuff seabeyond Dec 2011 #78

Can you explain how you are able to read Brad Manning's mind long distance EFerrari Dec 2011 #88

what is confusing. 250k cable, clueless what is in them. gave to someone else seabeyond Dec 2011 #94

There's lots of room to argue... Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #97

he stold 250k cables. fact. he gave them to someone to find a gotcha. fact. seabeyond Dec 2011 #109

He clearly states in the chat logs why he decided to blow the whistle & compile Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #117

Not 250, 250 thousand cables. Trust me, he did not read each of them before he released SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #187

of course he didnt. but we are going to pretend he read them all, and felt putin as alpha male so seabeyond Dec 2011 #191

I'm not going to pretend that he vetted 250k in material. Others can make that argument if they SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #218

Sorry, I left off the "K". I know it is 250,000 and I believe that he read enough Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #199

Unless he vetted them all before he released them, he didn't exercise due dilligence. SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #207

Yes. He did violate the law. I don't think anyone is denying that. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #209

That's not the point. By not vetting the material, he didn't know for certain what he was releasing SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #217

If you don't take the trouble to find out the facts, true, then there would be no point in arguing. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #138

he did not know that was in over 250K cables. that is bullshit. now, regardless of the rest you seabeyond Dec 2011 #141

Yes, he did and he spoke about what was in them on the chat logs. So, I'm afraid you are wrong. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #157

so, he did not know what was in them, general feel and expressed what he felt would be found. right seabeyond Dec 2011 #158

Did you read my post? Yes, he did know what was in them. He said so and described accurately sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #161

yes i have. i have read the facts. not story selling to create him as a hero. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #165

Then can you present the facts, because what you have presented so far is so removed from the sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #172

the only fact i have supplied is he did not KNOW what was in EVERY ONE of those 250k cables. seabeyond Dec 2011 #177

And that is not a fact. Please provide something to back it up. You have repeated it sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #180

ok, so manning knew how important and criminal it was telling world putin an alpha male seabeyond Dec 2011 #190

And that answers the question as to whether or not you actually sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #200

that is your spin sabrina. always the spin..... you know he didnt read over 250k cables seabeyond Dec 2011 #204

There is no spin in my comments. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #210

bribery by the west? hfojvt Dec 2011 #184

And what damage has it caused thus far? Eliminator Dec 2011 #119

he stole... criminal act. period. seabeyond Dec 2011 #121

And they murdered over 4000 American soldiers Eliminator Dec 2011 #147

one has nothing to do with the other. it is not agreeing he is a hero, seabeyond Dec 2011 #149

No point arguing any further as you have not read sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #125

Not my hero surfdog Dec 2011 #4

+1 n/t tammywammy Dec 2011 #5

+1... SidDithers Dec 2011 #11

Yes, a file dump, pure and simple. Saying anything else is being disingenuous to the extreme. SlimJimmy Dec 2011 #208

+1 .... pintobean Dec 2011 #22

Government officials will decide what they will permit the public to know under the new transparency Better Believe It Dec 2011 #66

+1 sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #69

+1 jefferson_dem Dec 2011 #28

Manning didn't release anything to the public. He gave it to Wikileaks. nt EFerrari Dec 2011 #33

And just what did he think Wikileaks was going to do with it? Besides making it public that is? hack89 Dec 2011 #37

Not at all. Wikileaks filters the information through reputable media EFerrari Dec 2011 #82

And yet all that information was made public hack89 Dec 2011 #105

Wikileaks record is better than the government's. Do you trust the government? EFerrari Dec 2011 #173

Perhaps - in any case Manning will be in jail for a long time and that is a good thing. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #188

Wikileaks is public tammywammy Dec 2011 #38

The massive data dump the corporate media talked about for months EFerrari Dec 2011 #176

That doesn't change what I wrote. tammywammy Dec 2011 #185

Just what do you think the letters l.e.a.k.s. polmaven Dec 2011 #47

Ha! Number23 Dec 2011 #124

So you don't think l.e.a.k.s. polmaven Dec 2011 #155

I am agreeing with you Number23 Dec 2011 #163

My apologies... polmaven Dec 2011 #211

Public means anyone without proper clearance and need to know. Nt DevonRex Dec 2011 #63

We need to know the truth and the people should be cleared to know the truth. Better Believe It Dec 2011 #68

Basically you're saying there should be no intelligence agencies DevonRex Dec 2011 #70

"Intelligence agencies"? Do you include government spy agencies that violate our civil liberties? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #99

If you are Mueller, it does. EFerrari Dec 2011 #81

+1 nt hack89 Dec 2011 #36

He's A Hero Of Mine... And Michael Moore... WillyT Dec 2011 #6

Same here, for both men. GliderGuider Dec 2011 #19

+1 And a hero for Truth. bahrbearian Dec 2011 #42

Indeed he is a hero. Nt xchrom Dec 2011 #8

Do the 'heroes' in your world punch women in the face? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #139

If I call him a hero, does that mean I can be locked up too for 'supporting terrorism'? Electric Monk Dec 2011 #9

totally agree Ichingcarpenter Dec 2011 #16

Not to me - he deserves any punishment he receives. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #10

Indeed he is a hero. Nt William769 Dec 2011 #12

To say he isn't a traitor is absurd surfdog Dec 2011 #15

He took an oath, to defend and protect the Constitution. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #56

He certainly did not betray me. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #85

And will you please post the oath to the military commanders that Manning took? Better Believe It Dec 2011 #102

K&R MichaelMcGuire Dec 2011 #17

If you believe that it's ok to lie to people to avoid unrest, he's a traitor cowcommander Dec 2011 #18

He broke the law dailey010 Dec 2011 #21

Whatever his motivation was noamnety Dec 2011 #25

The Founding Fathers broke the law. Should they be called traitors? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #130

The criminal acts of this government betray the people our nation... AntiFascist Dec 2011 #26

Regardless of intent or sexual orientation malthaussen Dec 2011 #29

Agreed dailey010 Dec 2011 #34

Some posters seem to have the impression that treestar Dec 2011 #120

Manning is a hero to me. HelenWheels Dec 2011 #30

I don't think what he did was particularly heroic, but... Hippo_Tron Dec 2011 #31

Sadly, whistleblowing on murderers is considered a crime by this administration. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #39

I stopped having Heroes a long time ago....but until Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Woo and Pachamama Dec 2011 #41

Unrec, why is this filfth on the Greatest Page? itsrobert Dec 2011 #43

I believe its on the Greatest Page because this is "The Democratic" Underground... Pachamama Dec 2011 #49

No, because some cliche group got it there itsrobert Dec 2011 #58

Cliche? Electric Monk Dec 2011 #73

I think he's still looking for an apostrophe for the contraction in his screen name DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #227

The post was taken off the Greatest Page due to your protest I assume. Better Believe It Dec 2011 #72

I did not alert on it itsrobert Dec 2011 #74

Agreed...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #67

He's a traitor. He didn't know or care what he released. DevonRex Dec 2011 #44

He did know what he released, which is why he released it. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #57

LOL. It was a massive file dump. DevonRex Dec 2011 #65

It was a recklessly indiscriminate massive file dump. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #76

It was a massive amount of files, yes. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #77

So was the Pentagon Papers. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #87

that oath is just words dana_b Dec 2011 #112

The definition of "hero" MineralMan Dec 2011 #45

If there were no consequences for doing what was right, he would not be hero. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #59

You sure think highly of yourself. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #89

I'm not sure how you get there from what I said. MineralMan Dec 2011 #91

"there is no definition of "hero" that I know of that includes him" girl gone mad Dec 2011 #92

I'm familiar with all of those quotations. MineralMan Dec 2011 #93

My definition of a national hero is.. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #95

My definition of a hero differs from yours. MineralMan Dec 2011 #96

you may like a different brand of hero than mine. Whisp Dec 2011 #46

Extreme A-holes like Scooter Libby & Dick Cheney? Pachamama Dec 2011 #48

lots of them out there, isn't there? Whisp Dec 2011 #80

If you are ordered to involve yourself in the commission of a crime that violated sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #60

I understand that Manning didn't even know what he was releasing. Whisp Dec 2011 #79

How is that any different than what Ellsberg did? girl gone mad Dec 2011 #90

if there were 63 more Mannings, and Whisp Dec 2011 #100

What a muddle your post is! Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #103

If these people took personal risks in order to leak evidence of war crimes.. girl gone mad Dec 2011 #104

you seem to consider Manning a hero for releasing war crimes Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2011 #167

but as the poster below said, what if the info isn't all about war crimes? Whisp Dec 2011 #192

It is not now, and never has been, the job of a whistleblower.. girl gone mad Jan 2012 #230

don't question my 'progressiveness' and I won't yours Whisp Jan 2012 #231

Your understanding is incorrect, he not only knew what he was releasing, sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #144

Hero. Gimme a *hard* one, whydonchya. K and R Smarmie Doofus Dec 2011 #61

Kick! Rec! Manning is a hero. Vanje Dec 2011 #75

Why didn't he simply comply with the Military Whistleblower Protection Act? hack89 Dec 2011 #106

Maybe he felt he couldnt trust the Inspector General? Other than that I am cstanleytech Dec 2011 #114

He could have gone to any member of Congress - he could have by-passed the military completely. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #115

Yeah. That strategy worked out great for Ellsberg. Luminous Animal Dec 2011 #123

Oh? What was the comparable law called back then seeing as the cstanleytech Dec 2011 #126

But Ellsberg tried first. Do you think Kucinich or Sanders would have turned Manning away? hack89 Dec 2011 #127

"He could have gone to any member of Congress" Sure. Anyone. Leiberman for example. Better Believe It Dec 2011 #135

You think Kucinich or Sanders would have turned Manning away? They would cover up war crimes? hack89 Dec 2011 #140

He is niether. The Midway Rebel Dec 2011 #118

Well, my view of him is tied to the Bush era war crimes. During that time many people wished sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #134

sabrina let me ask you something please? cstanleytech Dec 2011 #145

Rosa Parks, and many others, "broke the law" when other means were available. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #150

No, I do not. The Bush administration tried to make that claim, that their intent was good so sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #151

You will have to answer that for yourself sabrina as cstanleytech Dec 2011 #152

Well, breaking bad laws, such as Rosa Parks did (and I'm sure there were people who condemned sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #154

Manning is no Rosa Parks though. cstanleytech Dec 2011 #159

He certainly isn't. The federal government is trying to put him in prison for life! Better Believe It Dec 2011 #162

Just when I thought your comments saying the woman that Manning punched "deserved it" Number23 Dec 2011 #164

It is times like this that this place becomes a caricature of itself Number23 Dec 2011 #166

Hey, dont yell at me instead yell at the ones trying to claim he is like her. cstanleytech Dec 2011 #174

I was AGREEING with you Number23 Dec 2011 #206

Ah sorry, been sick since christmas eve and cstanleytech Dec 2011 #213

No problem. Hope you're feeling better. Number23 Dec 2011 #214

Thank you and yes i am over most of the hacking up a lung part cstanleytech Dec 2011 #215

i have a rather simple view on the matter Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2011 #168

That's a reasonable position to take. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #171

The video of the helicopter attack? Well ok I suppose I could see mitigating circumstances cstanleytech Dec 2011 #179

Well, he didn't say his ONLY goal was to reveal war crimes. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #181

*shrug* Our justice system isnt perfect true cstanleytech Dec 2011 #182

Not my hero. Boy the "hero bar" is awful low if Manning's actions can be considered "heroic". n/t cherokeeprogressive Dec 2011 #146

Actually, it's not so Black and White. johnaries Dec 2011 #148

"As a member of the Military, he joined the Military under duress" EX500rider Dec 2011 #170

WHAT???? How was he forced to join the military???? Please explain this? nt msanthrope Dec 2011 #194

Truth is the first casualty BeHereNow Dec 2011 #169

I hadn't seen that yet. Thanks for posting. nt Electric Monk Dec 2011 #186

One person's villain is another Persons' hero. Quartermass Dec 2011 #175

He saved many innocent lives. Zhade Dec 2011 #183

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #196

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #197

Whatever he is, he is not a traitor. alarimer Dec 2011 #228