General Discussion

kristopher

(29,798 posts)

108. It's extremely easy to prove and the evidence is literally all over the world

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 06:52 AM

Oct 2015

Just google up a comparison of the US to other nations in areas of health care costs and outcomes.

The savings in administrative costs are only a small fraction of what's achieved by making the government the designated "shopper" watching over the providers.

A thing as simple as routine X-rays can vary from about $30 to $800 dollars here and the average consumer has to determine the difference. When they try to find prices they are usually met with a was of obfuscation designed to frustrate the effort.

In other words, the med industry not only capitalizes on the time costs of learning to shop for even routine treatments, but they work diligently to increase those time costs to prevent comparative shopping.

That being the case, a centralized purchasing entity that can act to standardize costs via market power is the only effective solution.

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But if we enact single payer, your taxes will go up! [View all] eridani Oct 2015 OP

The other question is "How did they live this long without being reminded to breathe?" hobbit709 Oct 2015 #1

Exactly right. Vinca Oct 2015 #2

Congrats on 25,000 posts! bigwillq Oct 2015 #4

Wow - I'm half asleep and didnt even notice. Thanks! Vinca Oct 2015 #5

facilities DustyJoe Oct 2015 #6

I've heard people discuss the VA hospitals re this issue and apparently they've got especially Vinca Oct 2015 #9

Granted DustyJoe Oct 2015 #10

That's pretty much what I mean. Vinca Oct 2015 #11

VA hospitals very wildly from facility to facility Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #13

You pay into Medicare and Medicaid is single payer upaloopa Oct 2015 #56

I don't understand your comment. Vinca Oct 2015 #61

No it wouldn't upaloopa Oct 2015 #63

I can't tell SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #66

Check the avatar. hifiguy Oct 2015 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #90

Like I said the VA and Medicaid are all ready single payer. upaloopa Oct 2015 #81

If you're for single payer when it comes to the VA and Medicaid SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #82

I just posted I am for single payer upaloopa Oct 2015 #84

Are you saying that HRC is currently advocating for single payer? nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #86

The Third Way Progressive Party has one member: Hillary Clinton. JimDandy Oct 2015 #100

I'd like to see proof that Hilary belongs to a third way think tank. And not some Bernie upaloopa Oct 2015 #104

Do you understand what the 'new democrat' movement is? kristopher Oct 2015 #124

She was a cofounder of the fucking DLC, stop feigning ignorance. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #137

True Jim Beard Nov 2015 #159

We can't move to Single Payer because.. bvar22 Oct 2015 #143

No, you can't move to Single Payer because in case you didn't notice we don't have the votes in still_one Oct 2015 #153

What I hear you saying... kristopher Oct 2015 #150

FYI the VA is truly socialized medicine, truebluegreen Oct 2015 #116

No it isn't. Making the insurance cartel too big to fail and legally cementing them as gatekeeper is TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #139

What you are describing is, by definition, not 'single' payer kristopher Oct 2015 #147

We have a lot of work to UNdo to change our model of insurance... Cal Carpenter Nov 2015 #156

"Central planning and organization is not a good idea" TBF Oct 2015 #67

It's just the tamer version of the RWNJ cloud-shouting hifiguy Oct 2015 #73

So you're opposed to single-payer? Vinca Oct 2015 #79

Even Canada doesn't run it nationally Recursion Oct 2015 #135

Centralized planning would eliminate price gouging by doctors. kristopher Oct 2015 #110

Why is Canada against it? Recursion Oct 2015 #136

taxes vs premiums DustyJoe Oct 2015 #3

But, but, but NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #15

whats the counter to that? retrowire Oct 2015 #24

right now NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #30

There are those 2naSalit Oct 2015 #46

There are differences among those insurances Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #92

Tell them they are leeching off of the public padfun Oct 2015 #31

Yep, that's an argument SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #44

Just saying is all portlander23 Oct 2015 #7

I don't see how republicans get away with calling theirselves conservative. B Calm Oct 2015 #8

My Question Would Be "Can You Prove It?" ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #12

Agreed SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #16

Tens of millions of people in the pool hifiguy Oct 2015 #74

That doesn't bring down the cost of healthcare itself SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #76

It depends on.. mdbl Oct 2015 #105

My bad, I wasn't clear SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #109

There are plenty of studies showing the cost savings: joshcryer Oct 2015 #18

Um! ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #20

I did not read your post that way at all. joshcryer Oct 2015 #23

It Was the Way the OP Was Phrased ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #34

OK I totally understand now. joshcryer Oct 2015 #36

Hey, Wires Crossed ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #39

It also needs to go along with a 50% cut in the military budget libtodeath Oct 2015 #19

I'd Good With That ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #21

considering how difficult it is to get even a minor cut NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #32

Yep! ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #35

That seems pretty simple quakerboy Oct 2015 #94

Apparently I Wasn't Clear ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #111

I appologise for missing that quakerboy Oct 2015 #126

It's extremely easy to prove and the evidence is literally all over the world kristopher Oct 2015 #108

See Post 111 ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #112

Your post might have been a bit ambiguous, but it was sickoftheonepct's post... kristopher Oct 2015 #113

No Problem ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #119

Concept is right, but I doubt most people are paying $900/month premiums. (n/t) thesquanderer Oct 2015 #14

I'm paying about $700. jeff47 Oct 2015 #25

But most people are paying huge deductibles and have benefit maximums. Maedhros Oct 2015 #77

If taxes are aimed at the 1% as they should be then most wont have to pay much at all. libtodeath Oct 2015 #17

What ryan_cats Oct 2015 #22

What about people who don't understand 'relevance', do they still get to post? LanternWaste Oct 2015 #64

I think this was an attempt at the right wing Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #88

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #26

No it doesn't. It's appallingly privileged and self-serving. Shandris Oct 2015 #58

There is no need for such caution kristopher Oct 2015 #115

+1! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #118

Remember, there is no 'premium' under the OP's statement. There is tax. Shandris Oct 2015 #122

I don't exactly understand your point kristopher Oct 2015 #123

If we compare the cost effectiveness of existing single payer systems Enthusiast Oct 2015 #27

Low income would not have to pay, correct? FrodosPet Oct 2015 #28

And paying for insurance that actually covers stuff mountain grammy Oct 2015 #29

People have been conditioned to hate taxes liberal N proud Oct 2015 #33

Health care is 17% of GDP. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #37

It'd be closer to 13% due to the overhead. joshcryer Oct 2015 #41

That overhead woudn't go away immediately. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #42

Except that 30 million more people would be getting covered, which raises the costs Recursion Oct 2015 #132

The REASON for SP is cost control kristopher Nov 2015 #160

Then why does Medicare pay so much more than other countries' systems? (nt) Recursion Nov 2015 #161

Because medicare isn't able to counteract the cartels. kristopher Nov 2015 #162

Republicans in my county have been saying the same thing about black topping B Calm Oct 2015 #38

Your county supervisor probably owns the gravel pit. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #40

Funny enough I just had this discussion with someone else. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #43

the problem is those who get heath insurance as part of an employee bene package dembotoz Oct 2015 #45

Colorado has SP as a referendum for 2016. It will rely on a 10% payroll tax. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #47

I'm really interested to see how this goes. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #48

I'm not at all enthusiastic. In Seattle's new city council district system-- eridani Oct 2015 #97

How are they going to handle Medicare recipients? SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #51

From what I read in a seperate article the state program can't override Medicare or VA health care. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #55

Thanks for the info SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #57

10% is way too much gd770226 Oct 2015 #52

And how much is your insurance monthly? pinebox Oct 2015 #53

So many think it's "in addition to" hifiguy Oct 2015 #72

The 10% is split SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #54

Assuming they get payed every other week (which looks to be the case) RichVRichV Oct 2015 #59

I agree that it's a step in the right direction SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #60

No clue on that one. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #62

Thanks for the link! SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #65

I wouldn't mind paying that to ensure everyone got healthcare but that isn't the real cost. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #98

fortunate? gd770226 Oct 2015 #120

The mandate now is 9.5%. Why is it perfectly acceptable for people that make way under 100k TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #141

I think that's the SP that the 1% are pushing for. Don't tax the 1% to cover the masses' rhett o rick Oct 2015 #87

Bet it doesn't pass, people just can't grasp it would be cheaper and likely better care. Hoyt Oct 2015 #151

No shit! Warpy Oct 2015 #49

Do you believe single payer is only going to cost $200/mo? taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #50

Colorado's doesn't work that way. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #70

That's what calculations on the Washington Health Security Trust show eridani Oct 2015 #128

Trying to pound that point through some people's heads hifiguy Oct 2015 #68

I'd settle for harnessing the boundless energy of kids. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #71

With the elimination of the For Profit Insurance Vultures, bvar22 Oct 2015 #75

That's overstated Recursion Oct 2015 #134

If we went to Single Payer, "Services" would immediately drop. bvar22 Oct 2015 #146

Well, no, it would stay where it is Recursion Oct 2015 #149

Especially when the $900 premium does not provide universal jwirr Oct 2015 #78

yup ibegurpard Oct 2015 #80

K&R... spanone Oct 2015 #83

VERY well put! FiveGoodMen Oct 2015 #85

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #89

Yes, But we also need more sin taxes..and lots more doctors. ErikJ Oct 2015 #91

Exactly. Thank you. The simple answer is that the rich are so lacking in compassion that they would liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #93

This thread is just another garbage bucket for the morons. DrBulldog Oct 2015 #95

exactly! marym625 Oct 2015 #96

If ONLY there were some other, regular expense that would go away, which would offset that cost! Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #99

'affordable' is the first lie about ACA KG Oct 2015 #101

The OP has a familiar ring, but I'll rec it again. merrily Oct 2015 #102

WHY SHOULD THEY? There's more than enough from the "Defense" (WAR) budget to use. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #103

Sooner or later (and probably later, knowing that we're swimming upstream) DFW Oct 2015 #106

Show them Canada's tax rates IronLionZion Oct 2015 #114

So what are tax deductions/credits like in Canada? NobodyHere Oct 2015 #129

Don't forget this.... MADem Oct 2015 #152

Those are the federal tax rates SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #154

Something is going to have to happen. raouldukelives Oct 2015 #117

how do you get $200 per month? hill2016 Oct 2015 #121

You should Question your Assumptions kristopher Oct 2015 #125

THEIR taxes will go up. Orsino Oct 2015 #127

How do you figure we could pay for single payer with a $200 a month tax? pnwmom Oct 2015 #130

See post #128 n/t eridani Oct 2015 #131

It would take either a 10% payroll levy and 10% corporate tax, or an 18% VAT Recursion Oct 2015 #133

Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #138

We have 30 million uninsured people Recursion Oct 2015 #140

Universal single payer is going to cost more than what we spend now SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #142

Its cheaper to just let people suffer & die. bvar22 Oct 2015 #144

There will be savings on drug costs without a doubt SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #145

then hill2016 Oct 2015 #155

How much does Medicare pay for aspirin in a hospital right now? Recursion Nov 2015 #157

Why call it a tax at all? greymattermom Oct 2015 #148

LOL OMG that is what I was going to say. Kalidurga Nov 2015 #158