General Discussion

ProfessorGAC

(76,621 posts)

111. Apparently I Wasn't Clear

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:09 AM

Oct 2015

I'm asking those who just want to see it as a tax increase prove it. I don't need proof that single payer is a better system. The economics of it are patently obvious.

I'm addressing the folks mentioned in the OP who just want to complain that it means more taxes. I want THEM to prove it will cost them more.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

162 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

But if we enact single payer, your taxes will go up! [View all] eridani Oct 2015 OP

The other question is "How did they live this long without being reminded to breathe?" hobbit709 Oct 2015 #1

Exactly right. Vinca Oct 2015 #2

Congrats on 25,000 posts! bigwillq Oct 2015 #4

Wow - I'm half asleep and didnt even notice. Thanks! Vinca Oct 2015 #5

facilities DustyJoe Oct 2015 #6

I've heard people discuss the VA hospitals re this issue and apparently they've got especially Vinca Oct 2015 #9

Granted DustyJoe Oct 2015 #10

That's pretty much what I mean. Vinca Oct 2015 #11

VA hospitals very wildly from facility to facility Lee-Lee Oct 2015 #13

You pay into Medicare and Medicaid is single payer upaloopa Oct 2015 #56

I don't understand your comment. Vinca Oct 2015 #61

No it wouldn't upaloopa Oct 2015 #63

I can't tell SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #66

Check the avatar. hifiguy Oct 2015 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #90

Like I said the VA and Medicaid are all ready single payer. upaloopa Oct 2015 #81

If you're for single payer when it comes to the VA and Medicaid SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #82

I just posted I am for single payer upaloopa Oct 2015 #84

Are you saying that HRC is currently advocating for single payer? nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #86

The Third Way Progressive Party has one member: Hillary Clinton. JimDandy Oct 2015 #100

I'd like to see proof that Hilary belongs to a third way think tank. And not some Bernie upaloopa Oct 2015 #104

Do you understand what the 'new democrat' movement is? kristopher Oct 2015 #124

She was a cofounder of the fucking DLC, stop feigning ignorance. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #137

True Jim Beard Nov 2015 #159

We can't move to Single Payer because.. bvar22 Oct 2015 #143

No, you can't move to Single Payer because in case you didn't notice we don't have the votes in still_one Oct 2015 #153

What I hear you saying... kristopher Oct 2015 #150

FYI the VA is truly socialized medicine, truebluegreen Oct 2015 #116

No it isn't. Making the insurance cartel too big to fail and legally cementing them as gatekeeper is TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #139

What you are describing is, by definition, not 'single' payer kristopher Oct 2015 #147

We have a lot of work to UNdo to change our model of insurance... Cal Carpenter Nov 2015 #156

"Central planning and organization is not a good idea" TBF Oct 2015 #67

It's just the tamer version of the RWNJ cloud-shouting hifiguy Oct 2015 #73

So you're opposed to single-payer? Vinca Oct 2015 #79

Even Canada doesn't run it nationally Recursion Oct 2015 #135

Centralized planning would eliminate price gouging by doctors. kristopher Oct 2015 #110

Why is Canada against it? Recursion Oct 2015 #136

taxes vs premiums DustyJoe Oct 2015 #3

But, but, but NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #15

whats the counter to that? retrowire Oct 2015 #24

right now NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #30

There are those 2naSalit Oct 2015 #46

There are differences among those insurances Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #92

Tell them they are leeching off of the public padfun Oct 2015 #31

Yep, that's an argument SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #44

Just saying is all portlander23 Oct 2015 #7

I don't see how republicans get away with calling theirselves conservative. B Calm Oct 2015 #8

My Question Would Be "Can You Prove It?" ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #12

Agreed SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #16

Tens of millions of people in the pool hifiguy Oct 2015 #74

That doesn't bring down the cost of healthcare itself SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #76

It depends on.. mdbl Oct 2015 #105

My bad, I wasn't clear SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #109

There are plenty of studies showing the cost savings: joshcryer Oct 2015 #18

Um! ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #20

I did not read your post that way at all. joshcryer Oct 2015 #23

It Was the Way the OP Was Phrased ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #34

OK I totally understand now. joshcryer Oct 2015 #36

Hey, Wires Crossed ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #39

It also needs to go along with a 50% cut in the military budget libtodeath Oct 2015 #19

I'd Good With That ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #21

considering how difficult it is to get even a minor cut NewJeffCT Oct 2015 #32

Yep! ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #35

That seems pretty simple quakerboy Oct 2015 #94

Apparently I Wasn't Clear ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #111

I appologise for missing that quakerboy Oct 2015 #126

It's extremely easy to prove and the evidence is literally all over the world kristopher Oct 2015 #108

See Post 111 ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #112

Your post might have been a bit ambiguous, but it was sickoftheonepct's post... kristopher Oct 2015 #113

No Problem ProfessorGAC Oct 2015 #119

Concept is right, but I doubt most people are paying $900/month premiums. (n/t) thesquanderer Oct 2015 #14

I'm paying about $700. jeff47 Oct 2015 #25

But most people are paying huge deductibles and have benefit maximums. Maedhros Oct 2015 #77

If taxes are aimed at the 1% as they should be then most wont have to pay much at all. libtodeath Oct 2015 #17

What ryan_cats Oct 2015 #22

What about people who don't understand 'relevance', do they still get to post? LanternWaste Oct 2015 #64

I think this was an attempt at the right wing Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #88

K&R! This post deserves hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #26

No it doesn't. It's appallingly privileged and self-serving. Shandris Oct 2015 #58

There is no need for such caution kristopher Oct 2015 #115

+1! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #118

Remember, there is no 'premium' under the OP's statement. There is tax. Shandris Oct 2015 #122

I don't exactly understand your point kristopher Oct 2015 #123

If we compare the cost effectiveness of existing single payer systems Enthusiast Oct 2015 #27

Low income would not have to pay, correct? FrodosPet Oct 2015 #28

And paying for insurance that actually covers stuff mountain grammy Oct 2015 #29

People have been conditioned to hate taxes liberal N proud Oct 2015 #33

Health care is 17% of GDP. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #37

It'd be closer to 13% due to the overhead. joshcryer Oct 2015 #41

That overhead woudn't go away immediately. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2015 #42

Except that 30 million more people would be getting covered, which raises the costs Recursion Oct 2015 #132

The REASON for SP is cost control kristopher Nov 2015 #160

Then why does Medicare pay so much more than other countries' systems? (nt) Recursion Nov 2015 #161

Because medicare isn't able to counteract the cartels. kristopher Nov 2015 #162

Republicans in my county have been saying the same thing about black topping B Calm Oct 2015 #38

Your county supervisor probably owns the gravel pit. LuvNewcastle Oct 2015 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Oct 2015 #40

Funny enough I just had this discussion with someone else. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #43

the problem is those who get heath insurance as part of an employee bene package dembotoz Oct 2015 #45

Colorado has SP as a referendum for 2016. It will rely on a 10% payroll tax. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2015 #47

I'm really interested to see how this goes. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #48

I'm not at all enthusiastic. In Seattle's new city council district system-- eridani Oct 2015 #97

How are they going to handle Medicare recipients? SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #51

From what I read in a seperate article the state program can't override Medicare or VA health care. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #55

Thanks for the info SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #57

10% is way too much gd770226 Oct 2015 #52

And how much is your insurance monthly? pinebox Oct 2015 #53

So many think it's "in addition to" hifiguy Oct 2015 #72

The 10% is split SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #54

Assuming they get payed every other week (which looks to be the case) RichVRichV Oct 2015 #59

I agree that it's a step in the right direction SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #60

No clue on that one. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #62

Thanks for the link! SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #65

I wouldn't mind paying that to ensure everyone got healthcare but that isn't the real cost. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #98

fortunate? gd770226 Oct 2015 #120

The mandate now is 9.5%. Why is it perfectly acceptable for people that make way under 100k TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #141

I think that's the SP that the 1% are pushing for. Don't tax the 1% to cover the masses' rhett o rick Oct 2015 #87

Bet it doesn't pass, people just can't grasp it would be cheaper and likely better care. Hoyt Oct 2015 #151

No shit! Warpy Oct 2015 #49

Do you believe single payer is only going to cost $200/mo? taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #50

Colorado's doesn't work that way. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #70

That's what calculations on the Washington Health Security Trust show eridani Oct 2015 #128

Trying to pound that point through some people's heads hifiguy Oct 2015 #68

I'd settle for harnessing the boundless energy of kids. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #71

With the elimination of the For Profit Insurance Vultures, bvar22 Oct 2015 #75

That's overstated Recursion Oct 2015 #134

If we went to Single Payer, "Services" would immediately drop. bvar22 Oct 2015 #146

Well, no, it would stay where it is Recursion Oct 2015 #149

Especially when the $900 premium does not provide universal jwirr Oct 2015 #78

yup ibegurpard Oct 2015 #80

K&R... spanone Oct 2015 #83

VERY well put! FiveGoodMen Oct 2015 #85

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #89

Yes, But we also need more sin taxes..and lots more doctors. ErikJ Oct 2015 #91

Exactly. Thank you. The simple answer is that the rich are so lacking in compassion that they would liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #93

This thread is just another garbage bucket for the morons. DrBulldog Oct 2015 #95

exactly! marym625 Oct 2015 #96

If ONLY there were some other, regular expense that would go away, which would offset that cost! Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #99

'affordable' is the first lie about ACA KG Oct 2015 #101

The OP has a familiar ring, but I'll rec it again. merrily Oct 2015 #102

WHY SHOULD THEY? There's more than enough from the "Defense" (WAR) budget to use. WinkyDink Oct 2015 #103

Sooner or later (and probably later, knowing that we're swimming upstream) DFW Oct 2015 #106

Show them Canada's tax rates IronLionZion Oct 2015 #114

So what are tax deductions/credits like in Canada? NobodyHere Oct 2015 #129

Don't forget this.... MADem Oct 2015 #152

Those are the federal tax rates SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #154

Something is going to have to happen. raouldukelives Oct 2015 #117

how do you get $200 per month? hill2016 Oct 2015 #121

You should Question your Assumptions kristopher Oct 2015 #125

THEIR taxes will go up. Orsino Oct 2015 #127

How do you figure we could pay for single payer with a $200 a month tax? pnwmom Oct 2015 #130

See post #128 n/t eridani Oct 2015 #131

It would take either a 10% payroll levy and 10% corporate tax, or an 18% VAT Recursion Oct 2015 #133

Exactly SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #138

We have 30 million uninsured people Recursion Oct 2015 #140

Universal single payer is going to cost more than what we spend now SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #142

Its cheaper to just let people suffer & die. bvar22 Oct 2015 #144

There will be savings on drug costs without a doubt SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2015 #145

then hill2016 Oct 2015 #155

How much does Medicare pay for aspirin in a hospital right now? Recursion Nov 2015 #157

Why call it a tax at all? greymattermom Oct 2015 #148

LOL OMG that is what I was going to say. Kalidurga Nov 2015 #158