Are there really people on DU who won't vote for the Democratic candidate if

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237. Calling out the political impotency...

and the business as usual rhetoric that is represented in your posts is a far different matter than "insulting you." Effecting social change is not about YOU.

Beyond that...electing liberals and liberal laws will do absolutely nothing to enact "non-capitalist socialist policy" and demands. That is what is meant by getting to what is real and what isn't. Liberalism IS and REPRESENTS capitalism and there is not a single narrative in history that says otherwise. Why are not people honest about this FACT ? If one truly stands against capitalism then they can't represent liberalism. Anti-capitalism and liberalism are incompatible.

You have called yourself a leftist and a socialist here many times and here you are talking about representing liberalism and liberal electoral choices as a 24/7 pilgrimage to the promised land. Which is it ? You can't have it both ways. Liberalism does not aim to change capitalist social relations. Liberalism attempts to make capitalist social relations more kind and benevolent, which completely ignores the foundations of exploitation, theft, and oppression of the working class that capitalism is.

If people identify with liberalism then fine but why is liberalism being represented as a leftist political movement and the final word of "the left" ? It IS NOT and that is a very serious problem hindering any leftist movement from forming. Yes, this is Democratic Underground and not the turf of leftists and there are other places to post so it is what it is in that regard. It's not personal. Clinton and Sanders supporters are going at it a hell of lot more intense than anything I'm throwing out there.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/04/misrepresenting-the-left-we-are-not-liberals/

We Are Not Liberals! Misrepresenting the Left by RON JACOBS

(Snips)...

" Despite the current media-induced confusion, liberals are not leftists. This misconception is not only embarrassing to those of us who are genuinely leftist in our politics, it is also discrediting the Left. From the New York Times to FOX News, the portrayal of the US Democratic party and Barack Obama as leftist is creating a perception in the US populace that leftists are ineffective politicos who have no principles they won’t modify. Of course, the Left has not done that great of a job explaining the situation in any other way, thereby leaving the way open for the misconceptions put forth by the media to appear as truth. "

" If one wants to know what a liberal is, they need only to look at The US Democratic Party. From Hilary Clinton to Dennis Kucinich, that party is in no way leftist. How can I say that? To begin with, liberals differ from leftists in fundamental ways. For starters, liberalism is founded on the sanctity of private property. According to John Locke, who is quite possibly the godfather of liberalism, it is the possession of property that gives humans their freedom. Indeed, in its early days, liberalism only saw freedom as being deserving to propertied males. While not disparaging the positive aspects of liberalism’s early days–its opposition to monarchy and the role of the Church, to name two of the most important ones–it is crucial to acknowledge the shortcomings of a philosophy grounded in the ownership of property. Since the fact of private ownership was a qualification for entry into self-governance it obviously excluded many members of those societies where the politics of liberalism replaced the monarchy and the Church. Add to this fact the denial of political power to women and (in the newly created United States) the acceptance of slavery, and the shortcomings of liberalism as a philosophy guaranteeing liberty and equality become glaringly obvious. It is understood by those that utilize a Marxist analysis to understand history that liberalism is a bourgeois philosophy, primarily because it protects the dominance of that class in those societies where it flourishes. "

" The Left believes in justice. According to most liberals, so do they. However, the Left also believes that there can not be genuine justice for all unless there is economic justice for all. To put it briefly, human rights can not exist for all regardless of class until economic inequality is addressed and minimized. Ideally, this means that the motivation of profit is eliminated altogether. It does not deny the right of people to own their own property, but it does deny those who would profit from letting others use that property through rent. Unlike liberalism, leftists publicly acknowledge the fundamental nature economics plays in how political structures operate. This doesn’t mean that liberals don’t understand the essential role capitalism plays in maintaining the liberal state in all its guises, it just means that leftists know that to lessen the inequalities that exist under capitalism, it is necessary to change it with the eventual goal of ending its predominant role in determining social relations. In short, leftists understand that capitalism is a fundamental source of social inequalities, while liberals tend to believe that, if capitalism cannot cure those inequities, it can surely help lessen them. This belief exists despite the historical empirical evidence that the opposite is true. "

" Like liberals, there are several varieties of leftists. All, however, share an understanding that capitalism is an essentially unfair economic system that rewards those who already have capital much more frequently than those who just work their tails off. They also understand that capitalism needs wars to survive and requires inequality to function. This is why they oppose it. As stated before, liberals have a much rosier view of capitalism and have historically been willing to do whatever it takes to save it. So, while they may be the Left’s occasional allies, they are not the Left, no matter how many times FOX News and the New York Times say they are. "