General Discussion

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,750 posts)

190. Were the government to...

Sun May 27, 2012, 09:46 AM

May 2012

...remove the barriers, benefits and penalties, my wife and I would be free to make whatever arrangements we thought best or just continue to live as we do now which I believe would be unwise. When non-hetero folks started protesting marriage it did get me thinking about the unfairness of the government limitations. I've always been against the IRS crap of singles paying a higher tax rate. The Mormons have always been stuck in the back of my mind as another group that were driven underground by the government.

This is not a single issue solution in my mind. The fact that my marriage works for my current expediencies doesn't prevent me from seeing the problems of excessive government involvement.

The medical problems of the country need more government involvement and subsidy. Domestic relationships could use less government interference with and qualification of the parties.

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Marriage poll [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 OP

So people who are married would no longer be legally related? XemaSab May 2012 #1

In the dictionary sense... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #4

If I understand the question: not gonna happen. Nt xchrom May 2012 #2

I kind of figured that. n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #5

As heard on Thom Hartmann... Permanut May 2012 #3

marriage began as... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #6

But it's a civil contract NOW. xchrom May 2012 #7

Yes... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #8

I favor it if it is not for all consenting adults. etherealtruth May 2012 #21

I not clear... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #24

I favor [your response] ... with my caveat etherealtruth May 2012 #32

Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #39

No, it didn't. jeff47 May 2012 #145

What's your point? discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #147

My point is that your claim is wrong jeff47 May 2012 #148

Very true... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #151

Someone has to record them. jeff47 May 2012 #155

It's been 30 years... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #156

And I've had to do so multiple times jeff47 May 2012 #162

My point isn't... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #163

Ok, you're unconscious in the hospital. jeff47 May 2012 #164

Shame on my spouse... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #165

So did your insurance company find out who your spouse is using telepathy? Bluenorthwest May 2012 #177

That's because it is automatic, kid. Bluenorthwest May 2012 #176

I didn't say... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #183

you're part of the problem because when the LGBT community was about to gain marriage rights CreekDog Feb 2016 #208

Marriage may predate all modern religions, but superstition has probably been around even longer MNBrewer May 2012 #189

Except the anti-"Gay Marriage" people are basing it on Christianity. jeff47 May 2012 #200

This is what I don't like... cynatnite May 2012 #9

so then... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #11

I'm not saying that... cynatnite May 2012 #14

In a word... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #19

This is one time when it should be legislated.. cynatnite May 2012 #26

nutjobs discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #28

Agreed. I just did a bit of reading on polygamy... cynatnite May 2012 #33

Don't get all... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #38

So there is some other institution in our country for enforcing contracts? eridani May 2012 #96

I think you'd have better luck... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #98

So, you are agreeing that the government, and only the government, enforces collection? eridani May 2012 #100

Yes but... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #102

Which is legally a contract between two people n/t eridani May 2012 #107

That is the current reality. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #110

And the alternative to the government for dealing with contract disputes is what? eridani May 2012 #116

Settling a disagreement... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #118

Where else but at state archives would such records be kept? n/t eridani May 2012 #121

I'm not quite sure what you're driving at. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #126

Not all people can afford personal attorneys, and records get lost eridani May 2012 #136

Of course there are big common sense issues with it... But ideologically I'm with you. napoleon_in_rags May 2012 #10

other options exist discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #12

Most personal matters, like faith and love are better without government involvement, yes. napoleon_in_rags May 2012 #13

There is no essential reason for marriage to be... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #16

Marriage is not a religious practice jeff47 May 2012 #146

Religions WERE civil law for most of recorded history. napoleon_in_rags May 2012 #166

Because Caesar existed for all of the Roman Republic/Empire jeff47 May 2012 #169

The Romans ran an empire, and they did not impose their own religion onto Bluenorthwest May 2012 #178

Interesting facts. napoleon_in_rags May 2012 #203

You forgot the "Hell NO!" option RC May 2012 #15

And aside from... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #25

See post #17 RC May 2012 #72

I feel like I've heard this argument before. Iggo May 2012 #17

Not "get rid of" discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #22

I'm not sure you phrased that right. nt alphafemale May 2012 #18

Well... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #20

I don't hate the idea, but I am against it, so I can't accurately vote in your poll. nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #23

You could hit the "Pass" button :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #27

That would pass the time, but it wouldn't mean very much. nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #35

You seem to be a very precise person. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #104

I try. Thank you for noticing. nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #106

Marriage grants important legal rights NutmegYankee May 2012 #29

These same entitlements... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #30

Please detail then. NutmegYankee May 2012 #34

Whatever you need... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #36

So why not keep them available in the package they are in now? Why go fill out numerous forms, file uppityperson May 2012 #47

The lawyer is probably cheaper than a wedding. ;) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #57

wtf? No. Here in WA it costs $35-65 for a license, depending on the county. License fees are much uppityperson May 2012 #60

Because now gay people want them, too, silly. Iggo May 2012 #61

You must be a lawyer... NutmegYankee May 2012 #49

That's a negative! discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #53

Not immigration. wickerwoman May 2012 #204

I would suggest... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #205

How would that work with immigration and green cards? (nt) Nye Bevan May 2012 #31

Same as now... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #37

How can it work "the same as now, but without marriage"? Nye Bevan May 2012 #50

No. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #56

So you would prevent Americans from marriage to those outside the country. Bluenorthwest May 2012 #179

bad hat discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #185

Well you have not provided, in your little system treestar May 2012 #197

I would suggest... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #199

Yes, please anything to avoid letting TEH GAY have the M word! Warren DeMontague May 2012 #40

"avoid letting TEH GAY have the M word!" discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #42

Saying "get rid of civil marriage entirely" is a no sale argument, not to mention Warren DeMontague May 2012 #44

Well the equal rights aspect... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #51

Good luck with that. Warren DeMontague May 2012 #52

Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #55

he wasn't actually wishing you good luck CreekDog Feb 2016 #209

I'm not actually wishing you good luck either. discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #210

That's ok CreekDog Feb 2016 #211

~ discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2016 #212

Legalize Lonnie Anderson's hair. H2O Man May 2012 #41

Why? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #43

Obvious answer: H2O Man May 2012 #45

If all those legal things are available otherwise, I don't get why you don't want them available. uppityperson May 2012 #46

I this what you meant? SoutherDem May 2012 #48

I would be fine... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #54

If it's quite alright with you MattBaggins May 2012 #70

Why not just have... Chellee May 2012 #132

This is essentially... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #133

I do not believe marriage should have privileges not given to other types of relationships. alarimer May 2012 #58

I would prefer... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #62

It is funny to me that those who say that are ALWAYS married themselves Bluenorthwest May 2012 #184

My wife and I... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #186

Nope....I'm all for the civil union recognized by the government taking precedence ProudToBeBlueInRhody May 2012 #59

I vote "pass" though I agree in princple, in reality it doesn't work that way. joshcryer May 2012 #63

"Marriage conveys rights that non-married people don't have..." discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #68

You didn't read the rest of my post. That's what society endows marriage, not some magical... joshcryer May 2012 #69

It is easy... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #78

Yes. And we'd call it marriage, because that contract has, by our societal standards... joshcryer May 2012 #108

My route eliminates... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #112

Your route requires institutions to stop recognizing the institution of marriage. joshcryer May 2012 #123

It has nothing to do with "fairness" and everything to do with reality MattBaggins May 2012 #71

Why is it okay... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #79

Can't have it both ways. Signing a legal document conveys rights that those who don't sign don't uppityperson May 2012 #73

I don't think it's fair that... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #80

DUers HELP please? I can never remember the difference between a strawman and a red herring. uppityperson May 2012 #85

At your service discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #88

The poster is for relationship equality, but against marriage. joshcryer May 2012 #109

I think we mostly agree... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #130

It's a slippery slope. If you advocate for this (which is in theory more egalitarian)... joshcryer May 2012 #134

And yet you are personally married. As are all of the folks who claim they are 'against it in Bluenorthwest May 2012 #187

Were the government to... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #190

There are all sorts of civil things that accrue to SheilaT May 2012 #64

IMHO... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #66

Chances are, in the hypothetical case of the SheilaT May 2012 #137

Thanks for the thoughtful response. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #140

and undo hundreds of years in women's rights? no thanks. La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #65

Which rights are you talking about? discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #67

For starters, the right to inherit property and other such spousal rights. uppityperson May 2012 #74

I had no trouble... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #75

Nonsequitur. eom uppityperson May 2012 #84

Irony ;) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #87

Civil Marriage provides legal protections. It's a contract. So the govt has to be involved, if you Honeycombe8 May 2012 #76

"It's a contract. So the govt has to be involved..." discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #82

Of course not every contract demands a fee but laws and contracts are by civil, ie government, autho uppityperson May 2012 #86

A contract is... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #89

If it is legal, the gvt is involved. eom uppityperson May 2012 #90

You are free to believe as you wish. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #91

And you are free to believe that "while legally binding and potentially court enforceable" has uppityperson May 2012 #92

If The Contract Is Breached, What Do You Do? ProfessorGAC May 2012 #139

A family unit is good thing. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #141

Yes, gvt does approve participation of the parties. Can a 6 yr old sign a legal contract for S-corp? uppityperson May 2012 #93

We are and are discussing adults and adult actions here. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #94

It is sexual ORIENTATION, not "sexual preference". Orientation is hard wired, preference not uppityperson May 2012 #95

I'm an engineer. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #97

Exactly - and the people who want to do that are likely TBF May 2012 #99

It could be just a contract treestar May 2012 #198

i think marriage should mean something. barbtries May 2012 #77

Me too. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #81

AN UPDATE: discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #83

for the record barbtries May 2012 #101

Yay! discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #103

question.... unkachuck May 2012 #105

Question.... uppityperson May 2012 #111

'If "marriage" was gotten rid of, could you never have sex?' unkachuck May 2012 #113

Why would anyone outlaw marriage? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #115

Why would anyone outlaw it for those of the same sex? n/t uppityperson May 2012 #117

I asked you first. :) discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #120

Because. uppityperson May 2012 #124

Have a great time. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #128

You made a reference to marriage being outlawed. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #144

Outlawed, taken outside the law. The law being put in place by the gvt. uppityperson May 2012 #154

You and your intended... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #114

"You and your intended..." unkachuck May 2012 #119

I can think of a number of strategies but... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #122

What? Take a doctor's advice over that of an anonymous internet forum poster? uppityperson May 2012 #125

I know my limits. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #127

Unfortunately the legal aspect of marriage is important. Renew Deal May 2012 #129

Could you be more specific... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #131

Property, children, who is and isn't married... Renew Deal May 2012 #135

This whole "burn it all down" thing seems to crop up any time progress is made for gay civil rights. The Link May 2012 #138

I didn't primarily have gay civil rights in mind. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #143

But you are yourself married, so clearly you don't have yourself in mind either.... Bluenorthwest May 2012 #194

Maybe if I used CAPITAL letters. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #195

There is not enough information to make a decision Taverner May 2012 #142

Why do you feel that way? Blue_Tires May 2012 #149

Because... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #153

ok... Blue_Tires May 2012 #158

I get that what I propose... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #161

You have it backwards. kristopher May 2012 #150

No I don't. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #152

Beats letting religious institutions do it. kristopher May 2012 #157

rules, religion and discrimination discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #159

Whatever happens, it has to be EXACTLY IDENTICAL v-a-v straight/gay closeupready May 2012 #160

Marriage is still the most straightforward way to convey inheritance rights OmahaBlueDog May 2012 #167

True enough! discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #168

Since laws are the government, how do you propose gvt getting out of anything to do with uppityperson May 2012 #170

I would prefer... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #171

How can you have legal things without the gvt? Laws are passed, implemented, upheld, BY the gvt. uppityperson May 2012 #172

I sign a contact with... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #173

So you just don't want to have to get "permission", not have gvt out of legal affairs. uppityperson May 2012 #174

"statutes in most states are far too restrictive" discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #180

That's utterly false. Many people make their own pre nuptial agreements which define the Bluenorthwest May 2012 #188

You proved my point. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #191

No, you said all marriages are made out of a preset contract to which the parties can only agree Bluenorthwest May 2012 #192

I don't recall... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #193

Kick. sarcasmo May 2012 #175

Thanks for the kick. :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #182

i've always felt that laws and policies promoting long-term, monogamous relationships would benefit maggiesfarmer May 2012 #181

I'm not sure that I disagree with you that... discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #196

My government represents me, at least partially, or it has failed. WriteWrong May 2012 #201

I can accept that. discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #202

Hate the idea tabbycat31 May 2012 #206

Okay by me. n/t :) discntnt_irny_srcsm May 2012 #207