General Discussion

Joe Turner

(930 posts)

94. Getting around a nation's regulations is the central purpose of TPP

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:22 PM

Nov 2015

It is why corporations have spent billions to get it passed. Speaking of obtuse, you make it quite clear you have some kind of stake in its passage.

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Why the TPP Must be Opposed at All Costs [View all] polly7 Nov 2015 OP

It has to be rejected. 15 dems voted to prevent any part from being amended, no_hypocrisy Nov 2015 #1

Heretofore D-ALEC: Ron Wyden (D-ALEC),MCantwell (D-ALEC) Reps Susan Davis,S.Peters(D-ALEC) etc stuffmatters Nov 2015 #11

Add Suzanne Bonamici (My rep) and Earl Blumenour to that list ... Trajan Nov 2015 #103

Must be that their constituents see something in it that benefits them. kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #75

Many nations are rethinking it. They see it as the corporate coup that it is. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #81

Absolutely! It's the Oligarch's End Game & wet dream, rolled into one nasty package. -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #2

So-called "subversion of democracy and sovereignty" is laughable. Same language has been in 2500+ Hoyt Nov 2015 #3

Please list those 2500+ agreements and a link to their language. GeorgeGist Nov 2015 #5

Sure thing. Why don't you do a little research on trade agreements first? Hoyt Nov 2015 #6

So we should trust the corporate psychopaths? AZ Progressive Nov 2015 #8

How about folks like Warren who tell the gulible the agreement won't be released for 4 years after Hoyt Nov 2015 #16

You are the one making the claim, why not start out with that 1959 trade agreement That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #19

If you are going to criticize the ISDS, you ought to know something about it. It was in NAFTA and Hoyt Nov 2015 #20

" Countries have been signing agreements like this" - like is a bit imprecise That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #23

Obviously, you don't work, and/or have an interest, in research. Hoyt Nov 2015 #25

Ashamed to admit your research is from Wikipedia? That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #41

Actually it was from Economist, where entry in WP probably got it. You must have WP in your cache. Hoyt Nov 2015 #45

Economist? Haw, Haw, Haw, better send 'em an email and tell them Wikipedia is plagiarizing it's work That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #60

Because it's the same thing. Jeeez, Hoyt Nov 2015 #61

What? 1959 and the year of the first ISDS in a treaty, the link to Wikipedia? ISDS and BIT? Jeepers That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #66

ISDS has been in trade agreements since 1959. It's really that simple. Hoyt Nov 2015 #72

It really isn't, because your still talking about bilateral investment treaties NOT ISDS That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #73

Just for the heck of it, let's say the first one was 1970. ISDD has still been around Hoyt Nov 2015 #86

If congress had approved the ITO proposed by FDR, an "ISDS" would have started long before it did. pampango Nov 2015 #87

Nope, because it's ISDS professor, investor-state dispute settlements That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #89

Same thing, you sound like a gun fancier arguing about whether it's a clip or magazine. Hoyt Nov 2015 #90

Guns? Sigh, you had a chance to educate us with your allegedly superior knowledge... That Guy 888 Nov 2015 #99

He just makes up stuff without a single shred of evidence. Rex Nov 2015 #27

And you think this is a good thing??? polly7 Nov 2015 #29

Yet, Canada and Mexico begged to be part of TPP. Hoyt Nov 2015 #31

Begged!!! polly7 Nov 2015 #32

Yep. They were not originally part of TPP. Hoyt Nov 2015 #34

Oh, read too fast. I thought you were still yammering on about NAFTA. polly7 Nov 2015 #35

Harper might, but I don't beleive leaders in all150+ countries that have signed these things would. Hoyt Nov 2015 #39

You can bet that he'd be helping Transcanada sue us under ISDS for shutting down Keystone... cascadiance Nov 2015 #84

Yes, it's scary all around, isn't it? polly7 Nov 2015 #85

Excellent compilations, polly7. k&r, nt appal_jack Nov 2015 #88

Thank you appal_jack. polly7 Nov 2015 #105

What a laugh. Joe Turner Nov 2015 #36

And, as Bernie says, "Enough is enough." JDPriestly Nov 2015 #21

Without trade agreements, we probably couldn't afford a computer to debate the issues. Hoyt Nov 2015 #24

America became the industrial superpower of the world Joe Turner Nov 2015 #28

But we are saturated now, need resources from others, compete in a global economy, etc. Those good Hoyt Nov 2015 #30

If the good old days are gone Joe Turner Nov 2015 #38

Like Krugman has said, people blame NAFTA (trade agreements) for things caused by other factors. Hoyt Nov 2015 #40

What 'things'? polly7 Nov 2015 #48

Again, NAFTA, TTP have little to do with trade Joe Turner Nov 2015 #59

They do with respect to trade in the 21st century, maybe not the era you are stuck in. Hoyt Nov 2015 #62

Given the results of 21st century trade Joe Turner Nov 2015 #63

Yeah, lets go back to 1930s. Hoyt Nov 2015 #64

You mean the decade where out of control stock market Joe Turner Nov 2015 #65

No, I'm talking about the period where there were no jobs because there was no investment in this Hoyt Nov 2015 #71

Mr. Hoyt you are all over the board Joe Turner Nov 2015 #91

The TPP doesn't get around regulation. I may be funny, but you are obtuse. Hoyt Nov 2015 #92

Getting around a nation's regulations is the central purpose of TPP Joe Turner Nov 2015 #94

No direct stake, but I think it is important for our and the world's future. Hoyt Nov 2015 #96

Corporations ruling world governments is a bleak future Joe Turner Nov 2015 #97

Corporations won't be ruling the world. Heck, any government can boot them out at any time. Hoyt Nov 2015 #98

Sure, let's just forget those hundreds of billions of dollars that corporations Joe Turner Nov 2015 #100

I figured that, most folks grousing work for those corporations. Hoyt Nov 2015 #101

It pays well and certainly beats shilling for a living Joe Turner Nov 2015 #102

"Nothing could have stopped it (the Great Depression) from happening." I disagree. pampango Nov 2015 #93

Sure, trees grow to the sky Joe Turner Nov 2015 #95

Recessions are part of the business cycle. Depressions are not. pampango Nov 2015 #104

I don't lije corporations either, but without them most of us would b begging for a cup full of mush Hoyt Nov 2015 #33

Heck, you could be making your own computers and employing hundreds of thousands/millions. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #44

At 4 times the cost of what we get them now. I have no interest in employing anyone, Hoyt Nov 2015 #47

Completely disregarding the horrific working conditions of those making them for you polly7 Nov 2015 #49

He doesn't care, just doesn't have the conviction to admit it to you. Rex Nov 2015 #51

I know he doesn't care. He said the same things yesterday when I presented him with polly7 Nov 2015 #56

True. Rex Nov 2015 #57

Very. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #58

And the TPP will do something about that. Probably not enough, but far better than doing nothing Hoyt Nov 2015 #52

NO, it won't. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #54

Yes it will. Read the thing. Hoyt Nov 2015 #55

Here's what people doing VERY thorough reading are finding BelgianMadCow Nov 2015 #69

Notwithstanding Naked Capitalism's vague criticism, 150+ countries have signed similar ISDS Hoyt Nov 2015 #70

Thank you. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #76

"Same language has been in 2500+ trade agreements since 1959." Why then, do we need another? cherokeeprogressive Nov 2015 #67

That's odd, isn't it? polly7 Nov 2015 #74

I believe you are wasting your time trying to convince folks who have been brainwashed about this kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #77

You should probably read it, and some of the replies in this thread polly7 Nov 2015 #79

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #4

As I just finished posting on myTrudeau cabinet thread Monk06 Nov 2015 #7

Thanks for all this, Monk06. I agree with you completely. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #43

K & R AzDar Nov 2015 #9

Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #10

D's that voted for TPP Omaha Steve Nov 2015 #12

Shame the President, too. Octafish Nov 2015 #15

The only presidential candidate who can be trusted to deal with the TPP in the interests of the JDPriestly Nov 2015 #13

Welfare for Wall Street Octafish Nov 2015 #14

K/R and thank you, Polly Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #17

Thanks. Clear explanation. JDPriestly Nov 2015 #22

None of that has ever happened to the USA in the 50 or so agreements with similar provisions. Hoyt Nov 2015 #26

Where did you get that hypothetical scenario? Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #37

No they aren't, haven't been in 2500+ similar agreement worldwide since 1959. Hoyt Nov 2015 #42

Thank you for explaining this part, Jack Rabbit. I'm having trouble with a lot of it ... polly7 Nov 2015 #46

I can't get past... Kip Humphrey Nov 2015 #18

Workers are going to be thrown into slave labor, if not already there yet. Rex Nov 2015 #50

Legalese Jack Rabbit Nov 2015 #53

Talk about mealy-mouthed "commitments"... Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #68

K/R marmar Nov 2015 #78

It's so weird that the same people who USED to say 'wait and see what's in it' are now Marr Nov 2015 #80

I know, right. That's almost shocking! nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #82

Who could have known the same who profit from it, endorse it? raouldukelives Nov 2015 #83

Great thread Polly7 !! (eom) CanSocDem Nov 2015 #106

Thanks, CanSocDem, polly7 Nov 2015 #107