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HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
33. The limitations of free-speech are specific to a majority position...yes, but why?
Tue Nov 10, 2015, 09:34 AM
Nov 2015

Speech is a cultural tool which serves individuals and groups. Language is the vehicle for transference of ideas which assist in establishing majorities of shared attitudes and maintaining them.

Our gregarious nature requires our lives to exist within social structures. Whether we are born into existing groups or organize individuals into new groups, groupness must be maintained.

But there are many groups, and they compete.

A critical basic algebra of between group attitudes is 'we good - they bad'. If you go along with 'we good', you get to be part of Us, and stay in the group, if you don't, you become one of Them.

Consequently, behaviors which manifest that we are in Us and not one of Them must be demonstrated. Speech provides the important mechanisms to do that.

There must also be within groups patterns of language use that facilitate communicating the badness of Them. This pretty much requires the generation of a bias toward bigoted speech whose use is a display that the speaker has group membership and that the speaker is loyal to the group, even capable of chauvinistic loyalty.

What does that mean here on DU?

On DU there is pretty much universal disapproval for use of stigmatizing and demeaning terms of ethnicity, gender, religion, because we define ourselves as open and tolerant to those identifiers. Defense of those groups is a feature of Us, because we see members of those groups as within Us.

But like every other human group on the planet (good or bad, us or them) WE still need language that can convey our sense of superior goodness to Them and their badness.

It doesn't take much more than a look at subject lines on GD menu to see that communicating our superiority and goodness is contrast against Their mental defects. This is widely accepted on DU, and DUers vigorously defend their 'free-speech' rights to use language that stigmatizes, demeans, and propagates social attitudes that reinforce discrimination against the mentally ill within society.

I don't think this is so much because DUers actually consciously hate the mentally ill, and want to insult other DUers who feel the sting of that language, but, DUers -really need- language that can be used to demean persons and ideas belonging to alternate political groups. Within the context of American society the mentally ill are iconic models of the 'Dysfunctional Other'.

I think you are right that what speech is socially acceptable, and thereby 'free-speech, depends on majority positions. But I would say that can be parsed into majority positions within groups. Because across the globe there are many ways to construct group membership there will be conflicts in speech; identity of membership within groups and group identity demand such language.

So, if a society is multi-cultural it will have multiple cultural groups with internal rules of language that serve one group at the expense of another. If a society divides into sub-groups supporting competing guiding ideas and proposing different competing leaders each sub-group will develop rules and patterns of language use for at least that many sub-groups and give rise to what is seen from outside the groups as between group rudeness.

Seems to me this makes conflict involving language almost a certainty. I suspect these competing group dynamics and the demands placed on language use in groupness are why GDP looks like it does.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

That's not an "unpopular opinion," it's very popular among society's dimmer bulbs. LeftyMom Nov 2015 #1
Your post is a shining of example of the problem. ram2008 Nov 2015 #2
How much time do I need to waste on answering trite nonsense, exactly? LeftyMom Nov 2015 #5
None, leave the thread if you have nothing to contribute. n/t ram2008 Nov 2015 #6
Some call objecting to holocaust denial, use of N-word and sexist slurs "PC policing" pinboy3niner Nov 2015 #8
Right, but the title was how it's going too far ram2008 Nov 2015 #10
It's so easy for some to think it's going too far kcr Nov 2015 #49
You select a subject area with some gray areas .. Trajan Dec 2015 #126
Retreat to your safespace! ram2008 Dec 2015 #128
There are a couple astronomical units between holocaust denial and any halloween costume Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2015 #16
+100 for the use of AUs. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #42
None. If you don't care, why are you here? Renew Deal Nov 2015 #7
None - just leave. 840high Nov 2015 #14
I doubt you actually can really communicate your point on this topic. nt Logical Nov 2015 #30
Well.. That was nicely in line with the stereotype... TipTok Nov 2015 #21
Good point. Ad hominem attacks are still PC WhaTHellsgoingonhere Nov 2015 #73
So state your case instead of giving the finger JackInGreen Nov 2015 #12
Wow, really, explain why the first video is a good one. nt Logical Nov 2015 #29
LMAO romanic Nov 2015 #31
How are these mooks going to survive in the workforce? Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2015 #3
I can't imagine them out in the wide, wild world. cwydro Nov 2015 #20
That's always my very first thought. hifiguy Nov 2015 #70
This is Yale. Normal rules don't apply. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #45
And since it IS Yale, these goofs will be seen as somehow superior. I have a problem with that. n/t cherokeeprogressive Nov 2015 #108
They won't and don't ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #57
Who are Rhonda, Dennis and Lorne? PatrickforO Nov 2015 #78
I know nothing of their politics Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2015 #115
Oh. I have one of those. We'll call her 'B' just for chuckles. PatrickforO Nov 2015 #116
we see them at work periodically Amishman Nov 2015 #103
One wonders if "student protest" has become so solipsistic because the world itself seems insoluble? villager Nov 2015 #4
Maybe the question 1939 Nov 2015 #27
Wow, really??? ljm2002 Nov 2015 #41
Just as long as they don't apply that education to the world at large, eh? villager Nov 2015 #62
South African divestment was a huge 80's student movement closeupready Nov 2015 #77
Boy I think of some of the costumes I wore during my younger days... PatrickforO Nov 2015 #80
how about two weeks ago? Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2015 #117
I didn't dress up, though I did joke with co-workers that I'd come as PatrickforO Nov 2015 #120
Many people claim to be free speech absolutists...very few are in practice alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #9
The limitations of free-speech are specific to a majority position...yes, but why? HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #33
Adding the group dimension and the problem of belonging is certainly relevant alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #39
Interesting perspective tkmorris Nov 2015 #40
Groups actively police in-group language HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #99
Not just GDP. kwassa Nov 2015 #102
No it's not just GDP... HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #105
America is becoming a nation of infantilized adults. R. Daneel Olivaw Nov 2015 #11
+10 Duppers Nov 2015 #22
+100. nt Bonobo Nov 2015 #25
+ a brazilian. nt hifiguy Nov 2015 #71
The PTB treat Americans like children meow2u3 Nov 2015 #110
+1000 TwilightGardener Nov 2015 #114
+10000 bluestateguy Dec 2015 #127
The professor should have asked the logical follow up question, 6000eliot Nov 2015 #13
that would go WAY over their heads Skittles Nov 2015 #15
"It is not about creating an intellectual space, it is about creating a home here!" dogknob Nov 2015 #17
Well, "Shrieking Girl" has been identified down to the value of her family home Ex Lurker Nov 2015 #19
I feel sorry for her. redgreenandblue Nov 2015 #123
That's hardly an "unpopular opinion." Also, I don't think we can really know enough to judge, based fishwax Nov 2015 #18
Thanks for posting WP link. Well worth the read. The observation snagglepuss Nov 2015 #46
Oh those damned kids! Everything would be great if they weren't so coddled! tishaLA Nov 2015 #23
South Park nailed it with "PC Principal". Bonobo Nov 2015 #24
Yup. beevul Nov 2015 #87
Ironic. earthside Nov 2015 #101
That is so true. Boudica the Lyoness Nov 2015 #104
There are places on DU that are policed with a thoroughness hifiguy Nov 2015 #107
I've been here a long time ... earthside Nov 2015 #112
There's a difference romanic Nov 2015 #26
How about the internet? The2ndWheel Nov 2015 #32
Good point. romanic Nov 2015 #59
That's a really good point. (no text) Quantess Nov 2015 #122
I dunno Depaysement Nov 2015 #28
Unpopular opinion Truprogressive85 Nov 2015 #34
"Students created a media free zone"- yeah, you can't just declare things to be Lee-Lee Nov 2015 #38
Remember Bush's "free speech zones"? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #48
racism is alive tnvoter Nov 2015 #35
How about acknowledging it's a two-way street? (Starbucks Christmas cup controversy) bullwinkle428 Nov 2015 #36
I couldn't even watch the entire first video. cwydro Nov 2015 #37
All the while recording his harassment with their cell phones. cherokeeprogressive Nov 2015 #109
There's a saying that an armed society is a polite society mindwalker_i Nov 2015 #43
I don't see this as political correctness gollygee Nov 2015 #44
yeah, this is privileged kids taking a sensible idea way too far. geek tragedy Nov 2015 #56
Well said. beevul Nov 2015 #86
The girl screaming "HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT!!!????" seems like performance art to me ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #47
I'm baffled to the response to the email as well deutsey Nov 2015 #81
Or just a garden-variety drama queen. closeupready Nov 2015 #83
"free speech for me but not for thee" is actually a pretty popular opinion nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #50
This is how you ruin a perfectly valid and necessary movement Nolimit Nov 2015 #51
Ivy league schools compete annually for the " most unbelievably stupid statements by overprivileged geek tragedy Nov 2015 #53
The Yale student romanic Nov 2015 #60
It's an unpopular opinion here, but it's absolutely correct. NaturalHigh Nov 2015 #52
i could wear a KKK costume and walk through NYC, and the cops should probably do nothing about it La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2015 #54
I'm outta time for DU today but want to bookmark for later riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #55
Republicans, Again, Endorse Political Correctness When It is Convenient B Calm Nov 2015 #58
Republicans think they're being funny ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #92
safe space + Farrakhan = ???!!!!! MisterP Nov 2015 #61
Just watched the first video. Good grief, what a bunch of losers. redgreenandblue Nov 2015 #63
As is known at DU, there is no thing as a SJW. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2015 #64
Right? Unfortunately this type of behavior is what can get Trump elected. ram2008 Nov 2015 #66
Staggering ignorance from college students and instructors. Embarrassing and scary. nt Romulox Nov 2015 #65
That's a professor shrieking "I need some muscle over here!"???? Romulox Nov 2015 #67
Professor of Communications. Dr. Strange Nov 2015 #74
My god the irony! nt Romulox Nov 2015 #79
Wow. There's a 1984, George Orwell joke here, ripe for the taking. closeupready Nov 2015 #84
I saw she made the news tonight. cwydro Nov 2015 #113
The most inappropriately "politically correct" movement you know is nothing... hunter Nov 2015 #68
I'm not sure what you mean? nt ram2008 Nov 2015 #69
"Politically correct" has never been a part of my personal language. hunter Nov 2015 #88
These demons... PatrickforO Nov 2015 #82
Not in my political universe. hunter Nov 2015 #89
Yep. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Nov 2015 #72
Some of this bullshit has been happening on campuses for 30 years.... theboss Nov 2015 #75
I just see a lot of needy people shouting at each other, demanding respect, closeupready Nov 2015 #76
Sister Pat, tell me how to find a good wife Jimbo S Nov 2015 #111
Ah! A fellow Badger! closeupready Nov 2015 #119
One of the PC issues that I think illustrates acceptable PC jwirr Nov 2015 #85
I talked with a man with an intellectual disability about bullying loyalsister Nov 2015 #95
I totally agree. The pain that this caused was not only to the jwirr Nov 2015 #98
Joseph Goebbels would be proud. Cassiopeia Nov 2015 #90
speaking as a university professor, I have to agree with you.... mike_c Nov 2015 #91
It's a shame DU's posting format puts your comment at the bottom of the page Ex Lurker Nov 2015 #93
It's seems like Universities now treat students as "customers" ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #94
Because the students (and parents) started demanding a commercial transaction ($$$ = Good Grades). WinkyDink Nov 2015 #100
Earlier this year an english professor showed me her course evaluations Sen. Walter Sobchak Nov 2015 #118
I'm with the OP. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #96
Nothing to discuss. I agree with you completely. Vinca Nov 2015 #97
That's what passes for thought at *Yale*? Marr Nov 2015 #106
The Mizzou students didn't want their pics taken because they're getting death threats Recursion Nov 2015 #121
Yeah. The thing is, at its root, protesting is always about communication. redgreenandblue Nov 2015 #124
You're damn right bluestateguy Dec 2015 #125
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