General Discussion

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

36. This isn't "their own home". It's owned by all of us and rented to poor people cheaply...

Thu Nov 12, 2015, 07:02 PM

Nov 2015

... because homelessness is not in the public interest.

And in fact the wellbeing of the neighbors and subsequent tenants deserve at least equal consideration.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/10/smoking_caused_fatal_apartment.html
http://www.wzzm13.com/story/news/local/grandville/2015/11/07/careless-smoking-reportedly-causes-grandville-apartment-fire/75368048/
http://fox13now.com/2015/11/11/hurricane-woman-killed-in-fire-believed-to-have-been-on-oxygen-smoking-in-bed/

The neighbors of all those tenants are now all homeless because of deference to the rights of the smokers.

This spring, I helped move a friends family from an lown income apartment which burned through negligence. Smokers rights are in conflict with the rights of others. I side with the latter.

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So HUD is angling to ban smoking in public housing? What the Fuck?? [View all] Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 OP

As a former smoker... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #1

No, smoking is already banned in most common spaces Fumesucker Nov 2015 #114

Problem: In 2 CA cities you can't smoke on public property, even outside. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #193

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #253

This not the first time the non Smoking Wellstone ruled Nov 2015 #2

This isnt why they hate liberals. They hate liberals because liberals dont hate Black people randys1 Nov 2015 #3

or Hillary Clinton!!! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2015 #118

Isn't Castro in charge of HUD? yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #128

I heard him being interviewed about it yesterday. Tanuki Nov 2015 #198

I don't know how people survived the 50-60 generations yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #209

a lot didn't and died from lung cancer and emphema KittyWampus Nov 2015 #232

You mean like: "How come you're following the recommendations of the CDC pnwmom Nov 2015 #203

I was just on a call about that this afternoon KamaAina Nov 2015 #4

Heh! madinmaryland Nov 2015 #40

Julian Castro and I have you on Ignore KamaAina Nov 2015 #90

Someone brought up on the call that many people with mental illness smoke to self-medicate. KamaAina Nov 2015 #181

I agree, this is ridiculous. cwydro Nov 2015 #5

Yeah it's so ridiculous that poor children whose parents are non-smokers pnwmom Nov 2015 #17

HVAC systems are not set up that way. former9thward Nov 2015 #62

The research shows that they are. Darn facts! pnwmom Nov 2015 #78

I guess you didn't read your link. former9thward Nov 2015 #123

It's better research than the nothing you posted. Please demonstrate pnwmom Nov 2015 #124

Oh so you want me to post drawings of HVAC systems in buildings former9thward Nov 2015 #125

No. Where's the research showing that seepage isn't a problem ? pnwmom Nov 2015 #126

Hell, "seepage" is a problem after eating Mexican food. Flammable, too. Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #195

The CDC and the American Cancer Society don't say people shouldn't be eating pnwmom Nov 2015 #196

And that's why you can never, EVER smell the cooking of your neighbors from your own apartment. MADem Nov 2015 #177

I can smell cooking from my neighbors and I don't live in an apartment. former9thward Nov 2015 #212

You wouldn't want to live next to a meth lab for that reason, either. MADem Nov 2015 #213

Just remember - every law is backed up by a gun. TampaAnimusVortex Nov 2015 #63

Second hand smoke also kills people. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #204

Says nothing related to my comment. TampaAnimusVortex Nov 2015 #224

Absurd. hifiguy Nov 2015 #6

Do you disagree with all non-smoking laws? Or do you just think pnwmom Nov 2015 #19

Public places are one thing. hifiguy Nov 2015 #30

You shouldn't be able to send your smoke into the apartment next door. pnwmom Nov 2015 #37

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. hifiguy Nov 2015 #38

Are you against no-smoking laws in the workplace, too? pnwmom Nov 2015 #137

Don't you risk a dual standard with a rule like this? LittleBlue Nov 2015 #133

People with the means can rent apartments or houses where they can breathe clean air. pnwmom Nov 2015 #136

If you had it your way you would ban smoking except in the bottom of the Grand Canyon LOL snooper2 Nov 2015 #168

If you had your way you'd allow smoking in the maternity wing of a hospital. Especially pnwmom Nov 2015 #183

negative, I go for the common sense approach- snooper2 Nov 2015 #186

I go for the scientific approach. Both the Center for Disease Control pnwmom Nov 2015 #187

So when I smoked pot in my apartment for YEARS before buying a house snooper2 Nov 2015 #188

If my apartment were full of smoke, yes, I'd complain. I have asthma pnwmom Nov 2015 #190

and vapor right? snooper2 Nov 2015 #191

I don't know. As I understand it, different vapors differ in their composition. nt pnwmom Nov 2015 #194

I agree get the red out Nov 2015 #156

Economically disadvantaged non-smokers are in the worst position kcr Nov 2015 #225

I think the guy in the next apartment has a right to a smoke free residence Travis_0004 Nov 2015 #47

The list of legal activities... NCTraveler Nov 2015 #50

As a landlord I'm perfectly in my rights making no-smoking a condition of the lease onenote Nov 2015 #83

I'm a home owner who rents out our home... TipTok Nov 2015 #166

So is firearm ownership in many areas madville Nov 2015 #80

Better check Doe v. Wilmington Housing Authority.... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #197

Not true loyalsister Nov 2015 #211

poor people suffer from asthma at extremely elevated levels compared geek tragedy Nov 2015 #7

I work with several HUD grants that provide housing upaloopa Nov 2015 #8

or walk outside to smoke maxsolomon Nov 2015 #39

They wouldn't need to deny housing to a smoker. But they could legally ban smoking indoors.n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #138

Children, especially, are at risk. If people are sharing common air ducts, pnwmom Nov 2015 #9

+1 HuckleB Nov 2015 #61

I second that. As one who's lived in multi-unit housing and raccoon Nov 2015 #135

Yeah, friends who lived "communally" never allowed indoor smoking. HuckleB Nov 2015 #179

It's unenforceable. panader0 Nov 2015 #10

unfortunately, it is... getagrip_already Nov 2015 #13

The smoke DOES find its way into other units. That's the problem. nt pnwmom Nov 2015 #25

that's not the point maxsolomon Nov 2015 #42

Not allowing processed meats or trans fats would 'encourage healthy behavior', too. Sound good? X_Digger Nov 2015 #107

You're must have missed out on the trans fats. RichVRichV Nov 2015 #121

Wellness initiatives are very big in Public Housing. maxsolomon Nov 2015 #180

When you eat processed food you're not putting people in the next apartment at risk. pnwmom Nov 2015 #205

Actually it is enforceable loyalsister Nov 2015 #208

I am ok with this. Smoking drunks burn down home. The two family members i have who live in kelliekat44 Nov 2015 #11

It's all about controlling the choices of others The Straight Story Nov 2015 #12

It's all about allowing non-smokers, many of whom are children, to breathe clean air. pnwmom Nov 2015 #15

My body, my choice mentalsolstice Nov 2015 #73

Like, uh, I dunno The Straight Story Nov 2015 #76

An HUD apartment isn't like a bar that you can choose to go to. pnwmom Nov 2015 #139

Right you are. beevul Nov 2015 #82

Yep. People don't want others doing a 'sin' they don't approve of. It's like a religion to them The Straight Story Nov 2015 #85

Well said Sir. beevul Nov 2015 #87

Indoor air pollution and asthma affect poor people the most. pnwmom Nov 2015 #140

Are you opposed to vaping, then? Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #199

I don't know. It would depend on what the vapor contained and whether it pnwmom Nov 2015 #200

Classic social libertarian vs social authoritarian debate topic. NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #14

"Their" indoor air is being shared by non-smokers, including children. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #16

So you believe that it can be banned in any home with children? NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #18

If you OWN the home, smoke yourself sick maxsolomon Nov 2015 #21

No. Only in multi-unit buildings where the air pollution can affect other units. pnwmom Nov 2015 #22

You based your reply on "For the Children™" NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #60

I don't think anyone, parent or not, should be smoking inside a multi-unit building. nt pnwmom Nov 2015 #79

This isn't "their own home". It's owned by all of us and rented to poor people cheaply... lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #36

It's their own homes, just like all other renters. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #54

Owning a dog is also legal. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #57

Tenants have rights too but that's beside the point. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #59

Smoking is always choice loyalsister Nov 2015 #210

Addiction: it's what's for dinner. n/t Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #249

I've been there loyalsister Nov 2015 #251

Again, it's addiction not choice Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #254

Think again! DawgHouse Nov 2015 #148

Landlords can opt to make the properties they lease smoke-free onenote Nov 2015 #86

Yes, but for very low income tenants it's not a simple choice of moving elsewhere. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #117

You can smoke (and spend money on smoking).. TipTok Nov 2015 #172

The same thing is true of low income tenants with asthma or with children. pnwmom Nov 2015 #206

I just love authoritarians on DU. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #248

I just love air-polluters on DU. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #255

Or they can step outside to smoke n/t kcr Nov 2015 #226

Sure, but HUD isn't in the business of increasing homelessness Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #252

So what do libertarians do when they have a problem with smoke wafting in to their unit? Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2015 #53

I don't know, I'm not a libertarian. NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #64

This is standard for market-rate rental housing. maxsolomon Nov 2015 #20

And poor children need just as clean air to breathe as middle and upper income children. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #23

you and i agree on everything, pnwmom! maxsolomon Nov 2015 #26

Agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #27

"Shared air intruding in other apartments" Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #24

And most private apartment buildings have these rules already. pnwmom Nov 2015 #29

"Research has shown that smoke travels through air ducts and seeps through walls..." beevul Nov 2015 #130

Many private apartments have gone "non-smoking" too. MADem Nov 2015 #159

Here's a real-world implementation story: maxsolomon Nov 2015 #28

Thanks! Seattle has always been at the forefront of smoking regulation. pnwmom Nov 2015 #32

It would be better if they DID smoke outside but I'd never approve a law forbiding it. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #31

What about the children who live in the unit next door and have to breathe that dirty air? pnwmom Nov 2015 #34

Yes they do. Actually they deserve a lot more. I'm torn between both sides but I have to .. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #67

what makes them different than market rate renters? maxsolomon Nov 2015 #35

I don't approve of the No smoking rule for them either. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #70

Its not their place Travis_0004 Nov 2015 #48

Keep in mind, I'm just saying how I would rule. What others do is their own right. BlueJazz Nov 2015 #71

It isn't their place... TipTok Nov 2015 #174

Tobacco is slowly dying as an addiction tularetom Nov 2015 #33

They will write citations... Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #149

"...a cancer on our society..." thucythucy Nov 2015 #171

If they catch you they evict you. Hatchling Nov 2015 #164

I am a little torn by this. I don't like the paternalism in telling people what they can or cannot smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #41

If you are renting an appartment I think the owner has the right to doc03 Nov 2015 #43

I own two rentals. Both are non smoking. But my tenants have a choice of where to live Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #46

Public housing is built with taxpayers money. I don't want people smoking in an doc03 Nov 2015 #49

I don't want you driving on the roads I paid for, but it doesn't work that way. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #74

Well wasn't this thread about HUD discouraging smoking in doc03 Nov 2015 #162

1)you had the choice to rent a different car, shop at other stores, etc. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #250

If they would quit smoking maybe they would have doc03 Nov 2015 #256

Not your choice. X_Digger Nov 2015 #108

This. hifiguy Nov 2015 #51

So... the fact that the public subsidizes their rent means they should have *fewer* rules? n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #58

When the landlord is the state, there are fewer restrictions that can be made. X_Digger Nov 2015 #109

The state is well within its rights to make regulations based on health. pnwmom Nov 2015 #189

Should the government ban processed meats in HUD housing? X_Digger Nov 2015 #216

If you can explain how eating processed meats in your own apartment pnwmom Nov 2015 #217

Who said this? "within its rights to make regulations based on health"? X_Digger Nov 2015 #218

Again, eating a hot dog puts no one at risk except for the eater. Smoking cigarettes pnwmom Nov 2015 #219

"within its rights to make regulations based on health" .. did someone ninja your kb? X_Digger Nov 2015 #220

That doesn't mean that EVERY possible regulation can be justified. But it is easy to justify, pnwmom Nov 2015 #221

Oh, so children in a smoker's home pale next to the non smokers in another apartment?!?! X_Digger Nov 2015 #222

Parents who smoke around their children are harming them -- you are right. pnwmom Nov 2015 #223

And not enough money for cigs. Nt Logical Nov 2015 #155

So people in public housing have no right to be free from second-hand smoke. alphafemale Nov 2015 #246

Good for them. It's past due. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2015 #44

Beyond the obvious health risks for non-smokers in public housing, how about taking a look madinmaryland Nov 2015 #45

Public health is important, but implementing this will be tough. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #52

Neo-puritan bullshit MFrohike Nov 2015 #55

"Think of the children" hifiguy Nov 2015 #65

It still is the classic catch phrase of the American Family Association. NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #66

Nuff Said hifiguy Nov 2015 #68

+1 get the red out Nov 2015 #157

Both the Center for Disease Control and the American Cancer Society say that smoking pnwmom Nov 2015 #207

Children live in public housing. MADem Nov 2015 #56

Yes, yes, yes. pnwmom Nov 2015 #141

It's not just the nanny state HassleCat Nov 2015 #69

I'm not into the whole smoking debate romanic Nov 2015 #72

Bad news for Big Tobacco. Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #75

Will this affect the wealthy or just poor people? Why do so many approve of controlling the poor? The Straight Story Nov 2015 #77

The Four Seasons is one of DC's most expensive luxury hotels onenote Nov 2015 #89

Hotel VS where someone is living. Ok. (nt) The Straight Story Nov 2015 #95

I would bet that some of the most expensive rental properties in DC onenote Nov 2015 #97

Non-smokers who are wealthy are already protected from living in polluted air. pnwmom Nov 2015 #142

Reminds me of the drug testing for Texasgal Nov 2015 #81

Agreed. They think nothing of the same concept, when applied to their particular bugabear. X_Digger Nov 2015 #110

I'm surprised anyone would think it's okay to force HUD families comprised of non-smokers pnwmom Nov 2015 #143

I would find your stance far more righteous if you were consistent in standing up for poor children Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #161

Does Pope Francis have a position on indoor smoking? stone space Nov 2015 #173

Yep. Poor-punching. Orsino Nov 2015 #258

This is nothing new. nruthie Nov 2015 #84

You're actually quite correct. onenote Nov 2015 #93

Hey, if they don't like it, they can rent elsewhere or just buy a house, amirite? REP Nov 2015 #88

So on that theory, there should be no restrictions on tenant in public housing? onenote Nov 2015 #91

Or HITLER!!!!11 REP Nov 2015 #94

We should piss test them too.. Texasgal Nov 2015 #100

Kind of a leap of logic eh? onenote Nov 2015 #102

Not a leap at all. Texasgal Nov 2015 #105

Because the landlord is the state, and this is housing of last resort for many. X_Digger Nov 2015 #111

I'll ask again: should there be any restrictions on what a renter can do onenote Nov 2015 #122

Yes, it is housing of last resort TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #229

If We (the state) don't maintain public housing, who's to blame? X_Digger Nov 2015 #233

No one smokes in my house...including the people I love. TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #235

OMG, the previous tenants cooked bacon, but I'm a vegan! X_Digger Nov 2015 #236

Go homeless. TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #237

You know what? Your priorities need a serious fucking adjustment. X_Digger Nov 2015 #238

Plenty of other people want and need that apartment TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #239

I'm disgusted. Homeless smoker? Fuck em, no housing for you and your filthy habit. X_Digger Nov 2015 #241

You don't read too well? TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #242

I read just fine. "Plenty of other people want and need that apartment" X_Digger Nov 2015 #243

It's their choice to smoke in a non-smoking apartment. TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #244

Oh don't back away from your words, now. Own em. X_Digger Nov 2015 #245

I do own them. TexasMommaWithAHat Nov 2015 #247

If they don't like it, they can smoke outside. The right of non-smokers in HUD housing pnwmom Nov 2015 #144

This could have repercussions for a Clinton-Castro ticket in tobacco states KamaAina Nov 2015 #92

You're not from Virginia are you? onenote Nov 2015 #96

In the worst-case scenario, all it might take is a bump in turnout on the Southside KamaAina Nov 2015 #119

Some new HUD housing in my town roody Nov 2015 #98

Good for you, HUD! kwassa Nov 2015 #99

I don't know if legislation is the right idea. Shoulders of Giants Nov 2015 #101

I've never smoked, but lived with people who have tzar paul Nov 2015 #103

Thank fucking Christ Yes! whatthehey Nov 2015 #104

Smoke away, who's gonna know? Reter Nov 2015 #106

LOOK, if my private apartment building can ban smoking, smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #112

Do you agree with drug testing Texasgal Nov 2015 #113

Neither of the things pollutes the air of other apartment renters, as cigarette smoke does. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #145

They did in my building loyalsister Nov 2015 #115

news flash dsc Nov 2015 #116

I have never been a smoker, but this is Tipperary Nov 2015 #120

Here's why it isn't ridiculous. People with enough money to rent private pnwmom Nov 2015 #127

Nanny State Stinky? You should be ashamed of using right wing terminology CreekDog Nov 2015 #129

This message was self-deleted by its author NutmegYankee Nov 2015 #134

Yeah, right there with "What shall we tell the children?" Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #150

authoritarian spans right and left. Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #214

Nanny state liberals never know when bbgrunt Nov 2015 #131

Ooh -- nanny state liberals! The horror! pnwmom Nov 2015 #146

I agree- being poor is not a crime Marrah_G Nov 2015 #132

You don't think poor children and other non-smokers deserve to breathe pnwmom Nov 2015 #147

Hey, I got an idea for you . . . . Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #152

Nope. Children's health shouldn't be up for their smoking neighbor's vote. pnwmom Nov 2015 #154

I agree with you get the red out Nov 2015 #153

I agree with you Android3.14 Nov 2015 #151

I'm a Dem and I agree it's too much LynnTTT Nov 2015 #158

Don't poor children and other non-smokers have the same right to breath decent air pnwmom Nov 2015 #184

So what? I live in a senior facility roody Nov 2015 #160

I've seen this in non-HUD apartment complexes PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #163

Is it only those liberals that push for smoking bans? Where I live the doc03 Nov 2015 #165

Do they own the home? TipTok Nov 2015 #167

HUD actually owns the building and maintains it. Calista241 Nov 2015 #169

I agree. We should not be obligated to allow renters to deliberately damage public property. nt Zorra Nov 2015 #257

In the NPR story on this, they noted that it is already banned in 20% of public housing. FSogol Nov 2015 #170

Yup. Bashing Liberals is exactly my intent Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #175

You didn't break the news story, you merely posted it on DU. FSogol Nov 2015 #176

Okay. You make a comment to me Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #178

Both parties think being poor is a crime and that Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #182

I thought Democrats believed that children in poverty pnwmom Nov 2015 #185

The government tells people with greater means Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #201

No, but those adults of means can, if they want, protect their children pnwmom Nov 2015 #202

This Democrat does TexasBushwhacker Nov 2015 #230

As I predicted here in DU years ago... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #192

I see the same possibility. And that's just one reason I think this is a terrible idea. Stinky The Clown Nov 2015 #215

When pressure groups close down discussion beyond the policy-at-hand... Eleanors38 Nov 2015 #228

Have you ever moved in to a house where people smoked inside? killbotfactory Nov 2015 #227

hah! I finally know why they call you Stinky! librechik Nov 2015 #231

In the building I lived in most of the residents were women jwirr Nov 2015 #234

I don't have a problem with this. Chan790 Nov 2015 #240