General Discussion

DonCoquixote

(13,970 posts)

86. can't fix the system

Sun May 27, 2012, 05:06 PM

May 2012

Funny, before they tried to make the Euro grow too fast, Europe was doing quite well at mixing socialism and capitalism. And when I "confuse" individual rights with property rights, I say that you need some property rights to have individual rights. Now, I am not talking Wall Street, where the yuppies have much more than most can earn in seven lifetimes, but the home they sleep in. The problem with the Trotskys, the Ches, The Moas, is that if people know that some elite can take away everything they have worked for at a whim, they will not feel secure at all. It does not matter whether a Wall Street/Walmart blueblood or Communist Nomenklatura does the taking, or even the reason they feel they can take, everyone from the farmer to the shoemaker will feel the hit.

I realize the Centrists have hollowed out the meaning of the term center, as have conservatives ruined the term conservative.

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What's the difference between a "liberal" and a "leftist," if there is one... [View all] matmar May 2012 OP

Since neither term can be finitely defined, there are an infinite number of differences. Scuba May 2012 #1

My own look at the two words SecurityManager May 2012 #2

Agree completely with your definitions. PragmaticLiberal May 2012 #3

Those definitions are idiosyncratic. They don't match with any real-world use of the terms. Romulox May 2012 #4

"Hard Left" woulod be a Communist obamanut2012 May 2012 #20

I disagree with your defination of left. Swede May 2012 #21

The very fact that a leftist is interested in improving the conditions of all the people, shows Cal33 May 2012 #27

I would agree with these definitions. nt Honeycombe8 May 2012 #94

That about sums it up for me. Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #96

Liberal: believes that Capitalism can be made to work with regulation. Starry Messenger May 2012 #5

This. LeftyMom May 2012 #41

This sounds about right. limpyhobbler May 2012 #87

A liberal south of the border is called a leftist. Lasher May 2012 #6

Liberals are scared of the socialist label, leftists embrace it. Nt. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #7

Maybe they are not scared. Maybe they are just not socialists. treestar May 2012 #12

the ones that aren't socialists aren't liberals Warren Stupidity May 2012 #36

That is exactly what right wingers say treestar May 2012 #40

yeah that's it, I'm a right winger. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #72

You may not be one, but are arguing like one treestar May 2012 #99

Did I attack you personally? Warren Stupidity May 2012 #102

How is that responsive to my post? treestar May 2012 #106

Thank you, very well said. Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #97

Liberals are ambidextrous. randome May 2012 #8

I would say "liberal" describes a fairly specific set of positions, while a "leftist" is anyone Marr May 2012 #9

The historical use of "liberal" actually meant a rightwinger--a believer in laissez-faire economics. Romulox May 2012 #10

I would tend to follow the classic European model in defining those terms Douglas Carpenter May 2012 #11

This is the definition I always use....... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #13

Except when leftists themselves become fascists. geek tragedy May 2012 #14

That's totalitarian, not fascist.......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #17

Oh, FFS. Mao did not become a 'fascist.' The counter-revolution coalition_unwilling May 2012 #18

Everybody knows Mao was a tool of the Chinese corporations tralala May 2012 #91

Fascism is capitalism in total control of all branches of government. Starry Messenger May 2012 #31

Fascism is violently nationalistic DBoon May 2012 #34

Well, if Communists were executing Nazis, and Nazis were executing Communists... Starry Messenger May 2012 #38

Are you certain about your definitions? Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #98

"always" use? How free, and hence valid, is that? If you always use it, there is at least a 50:50 patrice May 2012 #67

Yep.always. I figure if it's good enough for......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #81

& There is at least a 50:50 probability that you just proved my points down-thread. nt patrice May 2012 #68

That is a very good definition IMO. redgreenandblue May 2012 #24

All liberals are leftists, but not all leftists are liberals. Standard coalition_unwilling May 2012 #15

That's good. But what are the differentiating traits? I suggest they have patrice May 2012 #25

Everyone on the left-hand side of the liberal-conservative spectrum believes coalition_unwilling May 2012 #30

The Libertarians I know have no regard for how lack of appropriate regulation produces slavery. patrice May 2012 #37

BTW, spectrums are too linear for me. There's too much that must be eliminated in order to patrice May 2012 #42

Because Liberal core values center around authentic freedom, not the means of production, patrice May 2012 #53

political compass rrneck May 2012 #28

Yeah, that site alludes to that Cartesian grid I mentioned. I'm a bit coalition_unwilling May 2012 #32

I've used it to no ill effect. rrneck May 2012 #33

Cool. I'll check it out later. I'm no guru on this sort of stuff either, but coalition_unwilling May 2012 #35

My score (coords) is pretty much what I expected whatchamacallit May 2012 #39

Me too. rrneck May 2012 #47

That's almost exactly what mine looks like. GoCubsGo May 2012 #58

Such things are limited meaning unless we know AND understand their method of CONSTRUCTION.nt patrice May 2012 #46

True. rrneck May 2012 #48

I actually like it too! But I am frustrated by its limitations. patrice May 2012 #54

I gave up on that quiz Art_from_Ark May 2012 #108

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Hatchling May 2012 #89

No difference, in this regard: MineralMan May 2012 #16

Relativity is not absolute.There are points of commonality, acquired from perspective/perception AND patrice May 2012 #26

Leftists are people to the Left of Libs/Progressives. FarLeftFist May 2012 #19

$50,000 a year, give or take a few jberryhill May 2012 #22

I'd go with Chris Hedge's definition: In America "classic liberals" are the political center. redgreenandblue May 2012 #23

I'd agree with all of that. /nt Marr May 2012 #50

A Discussion About The Differences Between Liberals and Leftists TBF May 2012 #29

I see an incipient authoritarianism in this statement: treestar May 2012 #44

Not sure why you interpret it that way - TBF May 2012 #51

That was a very close election treestar May 2012 #56

People don't decide. Money decides........ socialist_n_TN May 2012 #73

... TBF May 2012 #93

We still don't have to vote as the money directs treestar May 2012 #101

Good question. nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #43

"Leftist" is almost exclusively used by the RW as an epithet on kestrel91316 May 2012 #45

Yep. GoCubsGo May 2012 #60

Since both terms have been twisted into meaninglessness through misuse Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #49

Authoritarianism and egalitarianism are in no way mutually exclusive tralala May 2012 #80

Huh? Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #92

the better term is liberal and hard leftist DonCoquixote May 2012 #52

"A hard leftist thinks Stalin was great." This is completely false. white_wolf May 2012 #57

+1 Interestingly, TBF May 2012 #62

Strange to see Marx and Engles so far away on that scale. white_wolf May 2012 #79

They disagree with some of what Stalin does DonCoquixote May 2012 #76

You confuse individual rights with private property rights. white_wolf May 2012 #77

can't fix the system DonCoquixote May 2012 #86

Are you just making this stuff up as you go? n/t Catherina May 2012 #95

No DonCoquixote May 2012 #104

Liberals are part of the general Left, but not everyone on that side MrScorpio May 2012 #55

Leftists say Liberals areFascists because Leftists are motivated by political power &Liberals aren't patrice May 2012 #59

What? lol TBF May 2012 #63

It's as legitimate as #13 above. & though cites are useful, people CAN think about their experiences patrice May 2012 #65

Why the hostility? TBF May 2012 #69

Must we always have someone tell us what we think? nt patrice May 2012 #66

I don't understand this response either. Who is "we"? TBF May 2012 #70

Liberals already have power tralala May 2012 #88

Liberals do not think the ends justifies the means and some Leftists do. nt patrice May 2012 #61

Consequentialism came out of liberalism tralala May 2012 #90

Now I'd like to ask you something in return - TBF May 2012 #64

And, crickets. Somehow I'm not surprised. nt TBF May 2012 #71

SDS saying about liberals. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2012 #74

... TBF May 2012 #75

As good of a definition of liberals as I've ever seen.......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #85

Phil Ochs on the Liberal Douglas Carpenter May 2012 #78

A lot of people on this thread have demonstrated that they don't know the answer, LeftyMom May 2012 #82

You...you...lefty! randome May 2012 #83

Simple answer cthulu2016 May 2012 #84

The fact that this thread has continued this long... randome May 2012 #100

The order in which they will be sent to the camps when the Fourth Reich takes over? n/t Fumesucker May 2012 #103

Liberals believe in the magical ability to re-create the nostalgia of an economic exception. TheKentuckian May 2012 #105

Where? America is wacky right-wing extremist and not a good reference point. WriteWrong May 2012 #107