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ericson00

(2,707 posts)
Sat Nov 14, 2015, 03:08 AM Nov 2015

The Hard Truth About Islamic Fundamentalism [View all]

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 04:02 AM - Edit history (1)

During the Bush years, it was very tempting to blame GW Bush’s foreign policy, historical Western imperalism, or both for Islamic fundamentalism. I did this myself, instinctively. In June/July 2007, a water mane exploded in NYC, people thought it was terrorism, and in my head, I said “I can’t wait till GW Bush is out of office so the Muslim world will stop hating us so much.” I myself used to think “if only we didn’t support Israel as much, this stuff and 9/11 wouldn’t have happened.” Or “maybe we shouldn’t have gotten involved in Desert Storm, as OBL said our troops helping SA was a (not the) pretext for 9/11.”

Many people hoped Obama would improve relationships with Muslims as the lead ambassador for America in the world and for the American brand. Myself and many others thought Obama putting daylight between the US and Israel would clear things up, as well as pulling out of Iraq, not talking “crusades,” etc.

However, if one thing has proven true about the world since 12:00:00 pm, January 20, 2009, its this: radical Islamist fundamentalism is independent of what party our President is, how close or unclose America is with Israel’s leadership, or where are troops are in the world.

No, I don’t think all individual Muslims are responsible for Islamist terror. I do not see ending Islam or outlawing it as any sort of remedy in anyway to this problem. There is zero good reason for Muslims to be barred from any aspect of American life on the sole basis of religion. However, the indisputable fact is that more attacks in more places with more casualties happen expressly in the name and cause of Islam than of other religions, today, in 2015, not 1315. There is a big difference between a violent act which a person who happens to be of a religion undertakes than people who undertake a violent act in the name and cause of a religion.

This has nothing to do with race or skin color. Radical Islamists come in all colors and races around the world. Look at the white-skinned Australian and his kid who beheaded a bunch of people on video. Look at John Walker Lindh, or thousands of other examples.

It is also independent of whether the country attacked is friends, enemies, or neither with Israel. It happens in France, not exactly a friend to Israel, in Syria (no diplo relations with Israel, still at war), Russia (lead opposition to Israel during Soviet times, still not too close today), China, countries in Africa (many of which have Muslim majorities), and so on. Somalia, Nigeria, etc. have nearly no links with the US or Israel yet attacks occur in such places very often.

Colonialism has been dead for 70 years in nearly the entire world. Yes, the Muslim world has legit gripes about colonialism’s legacy, and they have every right. Thank God my country, America, didn’t carve up Africa and the Middle East as Europe did. But if colonialism is the excuse of Islamic extremists, then they are babies. How about the non-Muslims of Africa and Asia, as well as South America, who number in the billions together? You don’t see groups proclaming to act on behalf of a religion in revenge for colonization.

Or the Crusades. They not only happened almost 1000 years ago, but it was nothing close to this caricature of united rich white Europe oppressing poor brown disunited Muslim world. The Crusades occurred in the context of Caliphate-European wars with mutual savage warfare and religious intolerance at hand. Ultimately, the Caliphate won in the end, culminating in taking the Anatolian Peninsula, Southeastern Europe, and nearly getting to Vienna.

While yes, Islam isn’t popular in the Western world, excuses of Muhammed drawings/depictions are not OK to be reasons for terror. Matt Stone and Trey Parker depict Jesus as a talk show host and America or Stone/Parker do not get international death/terror threats and attacks tried on them.

Just as we cannot blame all Muslims or the existence of Islam itself, Islamist groups cannot blame Israel, America, the Crusades, or Colonialism. Fact is also that in most scenarios, most people would never think that pleasing such geopolitical demands on threat of terror is close to an option. Holds for this. Jihadists are the people who get offered a hand, take an arm.

If this problem weren’t global, it would not warrant such attention. A solution to Islamic fundamentalism should occur along the lines that things like Vatican II, and other religious edicts/figures did. Leading Islamic Scholars (and in the Middle East, there are several) need to propagate interpretations of Islamic holy text that help curb the tide of fundamentalism. No, they don’t need to rip up the Koran or denounce it, but there needs to be a mass reinterpretations by religious leaders as Western societies did. Yes, I know Islam is newer than Christianity and Judaism, but old or new, religious extremists have access to dangerous weapons today, now. I don’t advocate more ground invasions. We need the Muslim world’s help. They can help us defeat Islamic fundamentalism. But no more BS excuses for it.

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Who funds the ideology? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #1
see, the thing is its not the Saudi gov, but Saudi citizens ericson00 Nov 2015 #2
Is there some reason why you said the exact same thing twice? Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #3
Salafism flamingdem Nov 2015 #4
how about Iran and Hezbollah? ericson00 Nov 2015 #5
Are you in Lebanon? nt CJCRANE Nov 2015 #6
Should have said less flamingdem Nov 2015 #7
It's a mess. Our western leaders (plus their allies) are trying to act like one bloc CJCRANE Nov 2015 #8
Oil still rules. flamingdem Nov 2015 #9
that is a big problem, and a conundrum ericson00 Nov 2015 #12
Wrong SereneG Nov 2015 #38
the problem includes both shia and sunni elements ericson00 Nov 2015 #42
Are you a professor of Islamic Fundamentalism? akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #10
why, what's factually wrong about what I'm saying? ericson00 Nov 2015 #11
I asked if you are a professor of Islamic Ideology. Please answer the question. akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #14
Your post would be much easier to read Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #15
my bad, I didn't realize that ericson00 Nov 2015 #19
The funny thing is, many of the best Islamic scholars are American. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #13
I so agree with you about the American Islamic scholars. They probably broke away akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #16
given how Islamist terror affects people on all inhabited continents, ericson00 Nov 2015 #18
Oh please, is that your answer? You are a fake in representing Islam or what it stands for! akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #20
can you read? This diary thread isn't about Islam as a whole! Or Muslim individuals! ericson00 Nov 2015 #21
I can read very well. You are just being a pretzel on here. Give it up! akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #22
where did I generalize about a whole religion? ericson00 Nov 2015 #23
Where did I imply you are racist. I have no clue who you are, this is the internet! akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #24
the ones with influence are in the Middle East ericson00 Nov 2015 #17
In Saudi Arabia you might be beheaded for such a post. longship Nov 2015 #25
I would like to comment on your post but it might be against akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #26
I don't and didn't like the Bushes ericson00 Nov 2015 #28
Well, you have a good point. longship Nov 2015 #32
touche! and not just Hitchens, but Bill Maher as well, ericson00 Nov 2015 #27
You forgot to mention Cheney, how could you forget that evil guy! akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #30
What you know about the Saudis, except they were friends of George, the lesser of two evils? akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #29
this isn't about Bush ericson00 Nov 2015 #40
Agreed. 100% hifiguy Nov 2015 #43
Salman Rushdie keeps trying to point out this is basically a war for the heart and soul of Islam Warpy Nov 2015 #31
you sound like a right winger rockfordfile Nov 2015 #33
That person is a right winger, can you not guess? akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #34
At least they're honest about it. Flying Squirrel Nov 2015 #35
I may be wrong but I think you are being sarcastic. Iraq did not do anything against akbacchus_BC Nov 2015 #36
I did include a sarcasm tag. Flying Squirrel Nov 2015 #37
The hard truth is that most of your posts is meaningless pablum Scootaloo Nov 2015 #39
Exactly. And par for the course. marmar Nov 2015 #41
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