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Marr

(20,317 posts)

136. Let ISIS have what they want?

Sat Nov 14, 2015, 07:59 AM

Nov 2015

I think there are lots of reasons not to let groups like ISIS just have what they want-- from basic human rights to pragmatic concerns like avoiding constant refugee crises in Europe as millions flee the religiously insane hell holes that groups like ISIS create.

I'm no fan of western military adventures in the ME, and I agree it's pretty much all been about resource control. At the same time, I do think we need to do what we can to empower moderate/secular forces in region. We're living with nuclear weapons now, after all, and fundamentalists are basically absolutist death cults. I don't think the species can any longer afford to let those types control influential regions of the globe and just give them a few hundred years to sort it out.

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From what Obama just said sounds like we are at war. [View all] leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 OP

We've been at war, but what did he say that made you think that. Renew Deal Nov 2015 #1

We've been at play war, remote war, for something like 95% of the US.* MH1 Nov 2015 #57

No, this is not WWIII backscatter712 Nov 2015 #63

I think it is not so simple to "wipe ISIS off planet Earth" MH1 Nov 2015 #70

Not necessary. Just round up their bankers. We know who they are. We failed to do this on 9/11 leveymg Nov 2015 #96

Drop the mic, mg. hifiguy Nov 2015 #98

Funny thing about that. Some guy named John Kerry wrote a book about that. MH1 Nov 2015 #99

Let's not get ahead of ourselves; we're still fighting WWI Scootaloo Nov 2015 #102

How could it possibly be like WW II? It's almost a sure bet that non-state actors are the perps n/ eridani Nov 2015 #132

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Nov 2015 #2

Western civilization has been at war since Bush's illegal war and occupation in 2003 malaise Nov 2015 #3

He's the one who started all of this. philosslayer Nov 2015 #7

He is? From Illinois? I could have sworn we were mired in the Middle East before January 2009. merrily Nov 2015 #25

"he" is Bush, not Obama Takket Nov 2015 #36

Thank you. My bad. Second yooge mistake. Maybe I should take a break. merrily Nov 2015 #38

ME stuff has been going on my entire life and with few solutions. It's like a RKP5637 Nov 2015 #127

Bush did not "start" all of this. His idiotic, ham-fisted foreign policy Marr Nov 2015 #103

GW Bush.....elected 2001, and yet: EX500rider Nov 2015 #110

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Nov 2015 #8

We all know that but this mess malaise Nov 2015 #10

Is that when it all started? I was wondering...thanks. nt clarice Nov 2015 #74

Try 1947 in Palestine. brush Nov 2015 #128

Go's back a little further....say 570AD, Mecca, Saudi Arabia EX500rider Nov 2015 #137

shit randys1 Nov 2015 #4

It's coming here again too. FLPanhandle Nov 2015 #5

That's been really concerning me, is this the start of an escalation. They see no risk in RKP5637 Nov 2015 #129

Who are "these guys"? philosslayer Nov 2015 #6

Who knows what grievance they think they have? PatrickforO Nov 2015 #16

My point is... philosslayer Nov 2015 #17

I know. War sucks and should be banned. PatrickforO Nov 2015 #20

France is doing all these things you mention yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #40

When did the War on Terror stop? We stopped using the term, but the war itself never ended. merrily Nov 2015 #29

It's not "these guys". ISIS has taken credit for the attacks brush Nov 2015 #138

Yeah, or maybe someone drew a cartoon they didnt like. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #31

Here's my bet. Igel Nov 2015 #95

Or just maybe they REALLY want to have a Caliphate across the middle east snooper2 Nov 2015 #140

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #148

This is their flag AngryAmish Nov 2015 #23

In other words they are batshit crazy theocratic barbarians hifiguy Nov 2015 #60

BINGO !!!!!!! nt clarice Nov 2015 #75

"I wonder if the Russians have tactical nukes." EX500rider Nov 2015 #111

Wasn't sure. hifiguy Nov 2015 #112

No doubt there.....gloves off so to speak EX500rider Nov 2015 #113

sometimes there is no flag. It is just western colonialism's latest pushback against us. CTyankee Nov 2015 #24

This has been going on much longer than that . TheFarS1de Nov 2015 #116

History predates "western colonialism" 1939 Nov 2015 #133

Of course, between the battle of Tours (732) and Los Navas de Tolosa (1212), Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #139

And what was that in response too ? TheFarS1de Nov 2015 #141

You're the guy who asked if this was a false flag Capt. Obvious Nov 2015 #86

A war against terror? nt CJCRANE Nov 2015 #9

Hopefully Western and Eastern civilization. plus5mace Nov 2015 #11

Political Islam (MB, Daesh, etc) was already at war with the secular West Yorktown Nov 2015 #12

As if the West were not at war with the Middle East for decades? merrily Nov 2015 #37

They also have been at war with each other hifiguy Nov 2015 #41

So, you're saying they're just bad people? What was our excuse? merrily Nov 2015 #44

Nope. Just the worst of universal human nature hifiguy Nov 2015 #45

Ok. What was our excuse? merrily Nov 2015 #46

Oil and imperialism fueled by corporatism/fascism hifiguy Nov 2015 #48

Add in holding brown people in lower esteem than people who look more like our powerful people do. merrily Nov 2015 #51

Meh. Money and imperialism, then oil, are the hifiguy Nov 2015 #55

Meh. Add in holding brown people in lower esteem. merrily Nov 2015 #61

Oh PLEEEEEEEZZZZZZ. Peddle that shit somewhere else. Shame on you. nt clarice Nov 2015 #77

Right back at you, clarice! merrily Nov 2015 #81

In the 20th century the West was far more violent than the Muslim world cpwm17 Nov 2015 #49

Funny how none of these monsters mention the historical arc of which you speak. randome Nov 2015 #56

"There is no excuse for deliberately murdering innocent people." cpwm17 Nov 2015 #69

If you're trying to draw equivalence between the U.S. and the Middle East, I don't see it. randome Nov 2015 #73

We should not start wars or support those that do. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #92

So you're still saying that killing 150 Parisians is in revenge for Iraq. randome Nov 2015 #115

There has been no finding that the hospital was intentionally targeted mythology Nov 2015 #117

I'm mostly concerned about US behavior because that's what we have control over. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #124

But, America! I can hear it now. We have to be the leader of the world, no matter what. ladyVet Nov 2015 #134

+ 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 NT. clarice Nov 2015 #78

More Muslims have been by Muslims than anyone else over the last 100 years. snagglepuss Nov 2015 #85

This is a false equivalence. btrflykng9 Nov 2015 #123

I was just noting that claims of the Muslim world being so violent are exaggerated. n/t cpwm17 Nov 2015 #125

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #150

+1 btrflykng9 Nov 2015 #153

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #149

You appear to confuse Islam with the Middle East Yorktown Nov 2015 #143

I know Christian, Muslim & Jewish Arabs and Muslims who are not from the Middle East. I am clear. merrily Nov 2015 #145

they're also at war with moderate Islam and Shia Muslims. nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #62

There is quite a bunch of Shia extremists too Yorktown Nov 2015 #144

WE HAVE BEEN AT WAR SINCE EARLY 2014. We didn't take them seriously. We even armed Islamists LittleBlue Nov 2015 #13

Cheney and the Chimp lost 363 TONS of CASH hifiguy Nov 2015 #21

It's making me angry reading that LittleBlue Nov 2015 #39

That's true. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #54

I have to ask what the average airman/woman hifiguy Nov 2015 #68

They were mostly conservative or not political, at least the white members. cpwm17 Nov 2015 #79

He just said we would do whatever is necessary. leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #14

War then, war now, war forever. hifiguy Nov 2015 #15

Putin has already started. leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #18

France started bombing ISIS in Syria back in September magical thyme Nov 2015 #146

I didn't realize that until I saw some articles on it leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #147

just looking ahead a move 6chars Nov 2015 #58

A shitstorm is going to rain on their heads. Bonhomme Richard Nov 2015 #19

Please enlighten me... philosslayer Nov 2015 #22

ISIS n/t Bonhomme Richard Nov 2015 #26

so what do you propose? philosslayer Nov 2015 #27

The countries in that region need to get their shit together and.. Bonhomme Richard Nov 2015 #30

You're the one screaming about the 'shitstorm' philosslayer Nov 2015 #34

The last time that happened was the glory days of the hifiguy Nov 2015 #42

Yeah, Republicans are always going on about sultanates and caliphates, too. merrily Nov 2015 #47

The US basically stepped into the shoes of the British hifiguy Nov 2015 #52

Those nations are millennia older than the US. We have "root causes" that date back to 1607 that merrily Nov 2015 #59

Well, we don't behead people with swords any more hifiguy Nov 2015 #66

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, napalm, Abu Ghraib, etc..... so more noble and civilized? merrily Nov 2015 #71

It's not patriotic vanity to objectively say we are not the same, is it? randome Nov 2015 #72

Humans are what they are - hairless apes. hifiguy Nov 2015 #80

I believe the "correct" answer is that we're worse and all of the problems there are due to the west PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #88

Not one of these monsters claimed a sense of revenge. randome Nov 2015 #114

Or stone women leftynyc Nov 2015 #105

And, thankfully, the "witch theory of causation" hifiguy Nov 2015 #107

Those countries are so broken leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #43

This would be a very complicated war. The_Casual_Observer Nov 2015 #28

Isn't it always in the Middle East? leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #32

Wars have been complicated since World War II. Once people took off uniforms merrily Nov 2015 #50

more intervention will only end well! this time's the charm! MisterP Nov 2015 #53

Always, and everywhere they go they bring their problems with them. smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #151

It might be time to close the borders here too. NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #33

We haven't been trying to do that? Oh, my. merrily Nov 2015 #64

agree 100%. 840high Nov 2015 #84

Get out of the Middle East!!! Close certain immigration NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #35

Certain immigration customs? What does that mean? merrily Nov 2015 #67

We're going to have to be a little tight on immigration NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #93

Repeating a vague statement doesn't make it clearer or answer my question. Please be specific. merrily Nov 2015 #97

The U.S. will have to stop people from these countries with these terrorist ties from entering the NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #130

You'd close our borders based on national origin? Didn't we do something like that back in the merrily Nov 2015 #131

And the idiocy continues... nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #65

it's what happens when you let a nitwit like Dubya poke a stick into the hornet's nest Skittles Nov 2015 #76

Putting that blithering nitwit in charge of a country hifiguy Nov 2015 #82

as much as I detest the people who voted for IWR Skittles Nov 2015 #89

Those guys for sure managed to make things much worse. PersonNumber503602 Nov 2015 #91

Article 5. [nt] Jester Messiah Nov 2015 #83

WWIII is only a matter of time at this point. Initech Nov 2015 #87

WWIII started with the invasion of Iraq. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #90

Not so sure about that. hifiguy Nov 2015 #94

Yep Alittleliberal Nov 2015 #109

This incident is going to change things significantly. DCBob Nov 2015 #100

It's going to have a big effect on the political makeup of Europe as well, I expect. Marr Nov 2015 #106

Most likely. NYCButterfinger Nov 2015 #118

Oh boy, we get to use some of those weapons we bought from the military industrial complex liberal N proud Nov 2015 #101

Let the Russians do the necessary dirty work. hifiguy Nov 2015 #108

And the French. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #119

I am as well. hifiguy Nov 2015 #121

France is a member of NATO. The US will be involved in whatever the next step is. n/t tammywammy Nov 2015 #120

Yep. That's a safe bet. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #122

Bu,,, but we have to support the military industrial complex liberal N proud Nov 2015 #126

This entire situation is tragic. For the French victims, obviously-- but also for Syrian refugees. Marr Nov 2015 #104

So why can't we just let them have what they want? ladyVet Nov 2015 #135

Let ISIS have what they want? Marr Nov 2015 #136

Isn't that how Hitler got out of control ? TheFarS1de Nov 2015 #142

Exactly. They aren't going to stop with having power over a few poor, piddly little countries in smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #152