General Discussion

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)

56. So... NOW it's up to pacifists to fix the clusterfuck that war started...

Sat Nov 14, 2015, 02:25 PM

Nov 2015

Nice deflection.

I think that most pacifists are pragmatists, too. No wars for crass material gains...no wars for profit...no wars of oppression. Like that.
Defensive wars...wars that are TRULY defensive... shouldn't cause any but pure pacifists to object overmuch. Very few of us are pure anything.

Let's have a little perspective here...
The CIA estimates ISIS's total manpower at 31,500 - about one-third of the capacity of Rose Bowl stadium - or, roughly, 0.0019% of the world's total Muslim population.
It's important that we keep perspective, and not fall into the trap that radical Islam is laying for us.... that is, blaming all Muslims and doing something stupid like invading someplace unrelated to the problem...like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We tend to try to use a sledgehammer instead of a surgical instrument to solve our global problems.

How about cutting off their money? We don't have hackers who can get into their accounts? Cut off their support in the Arab world. Sanction governments who allow their citizens to contribute. Even if it's the Saudis.

Use surgical strikes and missions to cut their infrastructure. Use surrogates - like the Kurds - to do our fighting. We have proven time and again that we have no knowledge of the languages, cultures, and loyalties over there. Let the people on the ground solve their own problems... which coincidentally mirror ours. Be careful with military aid to the proven losers like the Afghan/Iraqi army. Then give our real allies rewards. For the Kurds... a Kurdish state.

Hell... anything would work better than the whack-a-mole policy we have currently. How about working smarter not harder?

How about bombing them with DVD players pre-loaded with medium-core porn, with lots of large-breasted blondes? Give those young guys something to think about besides strapping on a bomb vest. Those virgins in their minds might pale next to a bimbo on the screen. (Tongue in cheek here, but we can be a LOT more creative than we have been.)

War - the way we practice it - is not the answer. Or, putting it a different way... it hasn't worked out all that well in the last 50 years.

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OK pacifists...what would you do about ISIS? [View all] trumad Nov 2015 OP

Good question. Gman Nov 2015 #1

I'd prefer to know what the floriduck Nov 2015 #104

I'd send them one of our old nukes. Archae Nov 2015 #2

This is a really good question... al bupp Nov 2015 #3

Hug it out? Rex Nov 2015 #4

good question oldandhappy Nov 2015 #5

"I do not know what ISIS wants other than to control their world. " melman Nov 2015 #16

From my reading, they seem to be an apocalypitic cult Ex Lurker Nov 2015 #21

Yep. hifiguy Nov 2015 #115

The whole world, not their corner of it Nevernose Nov 2015 #20

Completely agree - cilla4progress Nov 2015 #62

Im not a pacifist although I generally favor resolving disputes through non-violent means. I would KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #6

Why would that help? Bad Thoughts Nov 2015 #11

they committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. They must face KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #22

Prosecute them, yes, but don't delude yourself that IS cares about human rights Bad Thoughts Nov 2015 #33

Is this a parody account? nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #14

I dont know. are you a parody of KingCharlemagne Nov 2015 #39

Lol, I have my answer nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #40

So, work with ISIS and hand them them our former leaders Bonx Nov 2015 #17

They literally do not believe in diplomacy Nevernose Nov 2015 #25

This can't be real oberliner Nov 2015 #97

Would you include Hillery in that? oneshooter Nov 2015 #131

So the Daesh executes them, and they will be safisfied? FrodosPet Nov 2015 #148

What is the root cause of ISIS? I would go back in time and fix that fucker of a problem. Ed Suspicious Nov 2015 #7

Abraham. And colonialism. nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #41

blaming Judaism and Islam for ISIS? Mosby Nov 2015 #71

And Christianity. But mostly colonialism. nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #87

Various tribes and religulous factions in the ME were butchering each other hifiguy Nov 2015 #120

It was actually pretty stable under the Ottomans, who knew something about the people geek tragedy Nov 2015 #122

Indeed. hifiguy Nov 2015 #125

Post-colonial governments managed to combine the worst elements of tribalism geek tragedy Nov 2015 #126

Yep, and the people there added their own hifiguy Nov 2015 #129

Some jackass Tree-Hugger Nov 2015 #51

Do you have a Plan B? EL34x4 Nov 2015 #90

Understanding how they came to be helps prevent more followers from joining. femmedem Nov 2015 #145

Money is the root cause of ISIS. Initech Nov 2015 #108

The money trails always, inevitably lead back hifiguy Nov 2015 #123

I so agree with this. Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #132

"House of Bush, House of Saud" hifiguy Nov 2015 #133

Saudi Arabia is pretty much the worst country in the world no question. Initech Nov 2015 #135

Forced to choose between exile to North Korea or KSA hifiguy Nov 2015 #143

What was the root cause of Jim Jones? Or the root cause of any band of apocalyptic crazies? pnwmom Nov 2015 #140

Buy them something nice. Octafish Nov 2015 #8

Air drop smart phones. They'll spend years trying to get them to work. randome Nov 2015 #98

Or they'll just get addicted to Candy Crush and Angry Birds. Initech Nov 2015 #110

They have made a point of destroying what few "nice things" they could in Syria and Iraq. Chan790 Nov 2015 #100

Translation: Now that we war hawks fucked it up yet again, what are you "pacifists" going to do to Kip Humphrey Nov 2015 #9

exactly niyad Nov 2015 #13

So...time travel? WestCoastLib Nov 2015 #26

This, plus jamzrockz Nov 2015 #82

I'm not a pacifist, but my first step would be communication femmedem Nov 2015 #10

Seriously not dissing pacifists in this thread. trumad Nov 2015 #15

Not a pacifist, but sadly I don't see a good solution. TDale313 Nov 2015 #42

the problem is that force doesn't make them stop, either. magical thyme Nov 2015 #91

force hasn't proved to work either... lame54 Nov 2015 #117

Are you familiar with Daesh and what they want? nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #18

Daesh isn't interested in talking. They only understand killing. n/t backscatter712 Nov 2015 #23

But how do so many people reach that point? Be willing to die for that point? femmedem Nov 2015 #47

They're an apocalyptic Islamist (NOT Muslim, there is a difference) death cult. Chan790 Nov 2015 #107

At this point, it's academic. The question is how to make the attacks stop... backscatter712 Nov 2015 #137

Like you'd listen anyway gratuitous Nov 2015 #12

Congratulations, you've proved war isn't always a good idea. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #50

So how much more? gratuitous Nov 2015 #61

Not exactly a pacifist, but I prefer an intelligence-based response. backscatter712 Nov 2015 #19

I have wondered why the convoys were not bombed or droned or whatever. femmocrat Nov 2015 #85

I guess I'm the board's temporary Republican, because I want an overwhelmingly violent response. DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2015 #24

ISIS is closer to a Mafia type organization than a Nation State... JCMach1 Nov 2015 #30

There's nothing Republican about wanting theocratic, medieval barbarians geek tragedy Nov 2015 #32

Being a Democrat doesn't mean sitting still while people kill all around you. FLPanhandle Nov 2015 #35

if pacifists had been in charge all along, restorefreedom Nov 2015 #27

Those who solely focus on Cheney etc ALWAYS forget the Saudis KittyWampus Nov 2015 #31

oh for sure, their hands are not clean either restorefreedom Nov 2015 #37

If pacifists had been in charge all along, as a European Jew, I wouldn't exist either. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #43

if we are going to go that far back, restorefreedom Nov 2015 #49

Indeed. It never stops disappointing me how often pacifists forget the lesson of Neville Chamberlain Chan790 Nov 2015 #111

I don't think the issue here is self-preservation. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2015 #134

irrespective of the other good answers to your post, what do you do NOW? MH1 Nov 2015 #64

first, i am not a complete pacifist restorefreedom Nov 2015 #72

Thank you for your response. MH1 Nov 2015 #94

sometimes i fear the attempts at nonviolence restorefreedom Nov 2015 #112

we'd also be speaking German redstateblues Nov 2015 #102

i already addressed that restorefreedom Nov 2015 #118

They'll bake cookies and look for unicorns. MohRokTah Nov 2015 #28

I am not a dogmatic pacifist. But heavy Infiltration would be a start. KittyWampus Nov 2015 #29

infiltrate with who? how do you find willing infiltrators? MH1 Nov 2015 #65

Infiltrators would have to take part in Daesh atrocities to succeed as infiltrators. emulatorloo Nov 2015 #93

There are people even now in IS territory in communication Ex Lurker Nov 2015 #95

What we did to Jihad John was almost perfect. Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #34

I'm antiwar. Not a pacifist. But there are things that could be done though that pacifists would think Nov 2015 #36

Excellent post.Your username suits you well. n/t femmedem Nov 2015 #53

That's all good, BUT none of that would deter Daesh from pursuing its stated goal of a caliphate. Metric System Nov 2015 #69

The list is things pacifists might agree with as asked for by the OP. Pacifism won't stop ISIS. think Nov 2015 #78

That's like asking 'what would you do to clean up the mess we've created?' Jeroen Nov 2015 #38

Congrtatz on being right. WestCoastLib Nov 2015 #44

Support a negotiated ceasefire and settlement in Syria. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #45

The one thing I detest are sadoldgirl Nov 2015 #46

You act as if this is something new... SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #48

Cut off their supply of money, arms, and ammunition. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #52

Cut our military budget in half, take care of our own people, jobs, families, infrastructure. Crystalite Nov 2015 #54

Choke their money supply, ramp up Intel. morningfog Nov 2015 #55

+++++++ n/t librechik Nov 2015 #57

^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^ nt restorefreedom Nov 2015 #89

So... NOW it's up to pacifists to fix the clusterfuck that war started... Bigmack Nov 2015 #56

I would handle them like the international KKK, and incentivize governments to help within Hoyt Nov 2015 #58

kill them. bowens43 Nov 2015 #59

Seriously? You don't think the entire US military has been trying for years to do just that? nt Bigmack Nov 2015 #60

That's precisely what I think. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #76

You said.... Bigmack Nov 2015 #101

Exterminate them lake loon Nov 2015 #63

They're already dead. ucrdem Nov 2015 #81

As I said elsewhere in this thread... Bigmack Nov 2015 #106

Well, we could round up the usual suspects, ucrdem Nov 2015 #66

For a non-violent solution both sides must want that solution. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #67

Princeton Professor Haykel cilla4progress Nov 2015 #68

Convert to Sunni Islam. Throd Nov 2015 #70

Not sure I'm a pacifist but for sake of discussion let's say I am; Dyedinthewoolliberal Nov 2015 #73

I've always considered myself a pacifist, but I'm having second thoughts. Vinca Nov 2015 #74

Easy: bankrupt the shit out of them. Initech Nov 2015 #75

Unilatel disarmament jeepers Nov 2015 #77

After all that they still want you dead. Throd Nov 2015 #80

China-Russia-North Korea all like your idea of the US unilateral disarmament. EX500rider Nov 2015 #146

Take the military budget and create a gazillion solar/wind energy jobs at home. valerief Nov 2015 #79

Okay warmonger...what would you do about ISIS? Rex Nov 2015 #83

I'm playing devils advocate but what if we worked AROUND them? nolabear Nov 2015 #84

I am a pacifist. Been beaten up many times and never fought back. But that being said. LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #86

The Paper Tiger roars Capt. Obvious Nov 2015 #88

Not a pacifist laundry_queen Nov 2015 #92

Invest in ending world dependence on Middle Eastern oil ThoughtCriminal Nov 2015 #96

Starve the beast. Find the funding sources and CUT IT OFF! riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #99

I've put you on ignore in the past for many reasons. closeupready Nov 2015 #103

The First Step - Eliminate Neocons From The World Stage - HRC Must Withdraw As A Candidate cantbeserious Nov 2015 #105

neocons out, yes step one, most important. nt restorefreedom Nov 2015 #113

Given that the endless war has only accentuated the problem, guillaumeb Nov 2015 #109

stop using groups like that as weapons against other countries yurbud Nov 2015 #114

Yes, that would do wonders. Chan790 Nov 2015 #124

not a pacifist w0nderer Nov 2015 #116

Drop all support for murderous regimes like Israel and Saudi Arabia mwrguy Nov 2015 #119

First, I would recommend that we don't invade Iraq. Oh yeah, too fucking late. Some shitty ass GoneFishin Nov 2015 #121

Let's flip that matt819 Nov 2015 #127

Keep giving them our lunch money until they weary of beating us up for it Generic Brad Nov 2015 #128

Beating the war dream Truprogressive85 Nov 2015 #130

I would start with peace and justice. PowerToThePeople Nov 2015 #136

Well, violence isn't working TexasBushwhacker Nov 2015 #138

I would look at what the U.S. did in response to 9-11, and then do the exact oppsosite. tjwash Nov 2015 #139

How many more American soldiers do we sacrifice before we win? B Calm Nov 2015 #141

Simple, cut military spending by about three-quarters and bring everyone home. L. Coyote Nov 2015 #142

They just need to work this out of their system... ileus Nov 2015 #144

try to stop our allies from supporting them. nt killbotfactory Nov 2015 #147

Bend over, stick their head between their legs and kiss their ass goodbye. miyazaki Nov 2015 #149

I'm not a pacifist, but from what I've read and learned about it deutsey Nov 2015 #150

1. Stop fucking with regime change in Syria. Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #151

Let them the fuck alone. 99Forever Nov 2015 #152

There has never been a more appropriate moment to trot out the verbal gem: Quantess Nov 2015 #153