General Discussion

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)

120. Unfortunately, the house is on fire...

Sat Nov 14, 2015, 08:18 PM

Nov 2015

Just leaving the house isn't going to end the fire. This could have been stopped back in the early 00s but so much tension and hatred has built out of the Afghanistan/Iraq Wars that we've reached the boiling point - the point of no return.

If we completely remove ourselves from the ME, they're not going to be happy. They're not going to be pacified - they're going to continue hating and no one will be there to stop 'em.

Look at what happened between the 90s and 00s. We were waging conflicts in the ME, but not at near the level we did in the 80s/early 90s under Reagan-Bush. Yet bin Laden's hatred and reasoning behind 9/11 was entirely tied to something that happened a decade earlier with the first Gulf War.

9/11 wasn't blowback for anything that recently happened in terms of U.S. foreign policy. It was blowback from something that happened years before.

My point is that these people hate and hate is inherently irrational. The war has already begun in their minds. We can remove ourselves but that war will only continue.

And they'll continue plotting against us, despite disengagement from the region. Worse, though, they'll be able to build their ranks.

There is nothing logical or rational about ISIS or even al-Qaeda. Because of that, ignoring it, or removing ourselves from the situation, won't solve anything.

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What to do re: ISIS? How about this? Get our US Military OUT of ME countries, period. [View all] 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 OP

It Is Increasingly Clear That HRC Must Withdraw From The 2016 Election For Her Role As A Neocon cantbeserious Nov 2015 #1

It Is Increasingly Clear That You Can't Be Serious. Metric System Nov 2015 #3

HRC Voted For The Neocon Dream Of Exporting Democracy - She Is Accountable For ISIS cantbeserious Nov 2015 #4

Sanders voted to pay for it. KittyWampus Nov 2015 #7

Sanders Voted To Supply Troops That Were Placed In Harms Way By The Likes Of HRC cantbeserious Nov 2015 #12

this. n/t retrowire Nov 2015 #72

Bernie is a the morally superior option - no two ways about it. tecelote Nov 2015 #75

Exactly. I honestly don't see how any Democrat can prefer the warhawk Hillary Fast Walker 52 Nov 2015 #95

Yep. SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #98

You are never, ever going to stop beating hifiguy Nov 2015 #125

I think you mean ... JoePhilly Nov 2015 #19

Serious Is As Serious Does - HRC Is Complicit As A Neocon - When Will She Take Responsibility cantbeserious Nov 2015 #47

Ok Forrest. JoePhilly Nov 2015 #53

HRC Voted For The Neocon Dream Of Exporting Democracy - She Is Accountable For ISIS cantbeserious Nov 2015 #56

Her voting history is well known, what is to "expose"? nt SunSeeker Nov 2015 #80

Let's see if she tries to out-Neocon the Republicans. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #100

Living up to your name again. Throd Nov 2015 #5

Ad Hominem Attacks Are Against DU Rules - Clearly One Is Unable To Face Reality cantbeserious Nov 2015 #9

Hillary kept us safe after 9-11 bahrbearian Nov 2015 #15

HRC - Another Neocon Version Of Dubya - Different Stripes - Same Corporate Backers cantbeserious Nov 2015 #16

You're right--it's about time we had a Republican in the Whitehouse Orrex Nov 2015 #44

Bernie Sanders - Beats All Republicans In General Election Polling cantbeserious Nov 2015 #51

I'm sorry--for a second it looked like you wrote "Bernie Sanders." Orrex Nov 2015 #54

So Sorry That One Is Having Vision Trouble Today - Maybe A Trip To The Ophthalmologist Is In Order cantbeserious Nov 2015 #60

And you should have your funny bone checked--it's clearly misfiring Orrex Nov 2015 #64

Ridicule - The First Sign Of Nothing Better To Say cantbeserious Nov 2015 #65

Interesting! Orrex Nov 2015 #67

Ones Link Is To Ones Self - Amazing cantbeserious Nov 2015 #68

Not if you click the link that I posted. It links to reply #60 Orrex Nov 2015 #70

Clearly - THe Recommendation Was Warranted cantbeserious Nov 2015 #73

Why so nasty? Orrex Nov 2015 #78

And the Rethglicans have not attacked him yet ToxMarz Nov 2015 #81

You cant be serious? DCBob Nov 2015 #93

Do you post this in every single topic or just lots of them? complain jane Nov 2015 #99

But isn't Daesh's stated goal to EXPAND their territory? Metric System Nov 2015 #2

Hint: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan ALL have strong military forces 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #11

We have to make it safe for corporate exploitation Mnpaul Nov 2015 #173

Yeah,...they claim they'll be flying their flag over the White House..... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #103

Well if we do that, please make sure to take all our military assest with us! Rex Nov 2015 #6

Agreed! -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #13

Great point... tecelote Nov 2015 #76

At the very least the equipment should be destroyed. We jwirr Nov 2015 #147

So let Daesh conquer Syria, Iraq and commit genocide geek tragedy Nov 2015 #8

It is assumed that if we get entirely out which gives them jwirr Nov 2015 #150

We're flying planes right now. So how would affect the calculus on the ground? nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #151

Okay - but we are not the only ones flying planes - Jordan jwirr Nov 2015 #154

Besides Assad and the Iraqis, there's the Kurds, Hezbollah, and Iran nt geek tragedy Nov 2015 #159

Finally. But those are mostly the countries that have already jwirr Nov 2015 #163

Hear, hear! onecaliberal Nov 2015 #10

but we can't stay out! restorefreedom Nov 2015 #14

Oh snap! you're right. What was I thinking? 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #17

:) restorefreedom Nov 2015 #43

There has already been an attempt on US soil, just as with France, they were attacked on their soil, Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #18

If we don't stop killing their sons, daughters, mothers and fathers, friends and families, bvar22 Nov 2015 #24

Explain in a competent method how we should sit down with this bunch of terrorists and say Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #40

Thanks for the sane and reasonable response. tecelote Nov 2015 #77

"If we don't stop killing their sons, daughters, mothers and fathers, friends and families" EX500rider Nov 2015 #111

"Use the Google!" Hydra Nov 2015 #123

And that's what motivated a bunch of Saudi murder's in Afghanistan? Unlikely. They hate Iraqi Shia EX500rider Nov 2015 #139

Over 1/2 MILLION innocent Iraqi children died from the Clinton Sanctions. bvar22 Nov 2015 #140

And Sunni terrorists in Afghanistan couldn't care less about dead Shia Iraqi's. EX500rider Nov 2015 #142

That was rude. bvar22 Nov 2015 #143

That was neither rude nor changing the subject. EX500rider Nov 2015 #144

Of course "there could be another attack here." Duh. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #27

What part of this fueled the raping of anyone? Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #41

have we forgotten so soon? restorefreedom Nov 2015 #45

I forgot, what did the religious group on the mointain to deserve getting attacked and the women Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #83

i said they are sociopaths restorefreedom Nov 2015 #86

Exactly, they do not need a reason, al-Qaeda did not have a reason to attack on 9/11, hate yes they Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #137

miltary action may solve the immediate problem restorefreedom Nov 2015 #169

Right--let's just invade their countries to make them stop oppressing women eridani Nov 2015 #135

Killing innocent ME people fuels revenge-seeking. It's pretty simple really. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #46

A religious group on a mountain in Iraq did not attack and kill any member of ISIS. Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #84

Yes, there are 25,000 ISIS armed murderers & rapists on-the-loose in the ME 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #87

For a while this group has only been in the middle east, now in France for a second eave, an attempt Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #91

All the more reason to tell our allies they should spend some of that oil wealth on a task force.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #104

It is true ISIS is a problem for the world, now they have shot down a Russian passenger plane so Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #106

It wasn't "shot down". It >may< have been a bomb.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2015 #116

Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #20

Hint: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel, Pakistan ALL have VERY strong military forces 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #28

news flash: Sale of US Arms Fuels the Wars of Arab States (NYT article) wordpix Nov 2015 #166

True. So why don't said nations USE the arms GWBush sold them, to take out ISIS? -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #168

I don't feel like it is as clear cut TeddyR Nov 2015 #21

Iraq and Syria, as well as Iran, Turkey, Pakistan 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #29

You really think that Iraq TeddyR Nov 2015 #62

Not a willing one as long as we fight the war for them. That jwirr Nov 2015 #152

They had one Mnpaul Nov 2015 #174

The problem is that we are both the excuse for ISIS to do jwirr Nov 2015 #157

Oh, so that's why they enslave and brutalize women and children. To get back at us. randome Nov 2015 #22

We need to find and stop the funding!! riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #23

You know, I don't think that would be a bad idea. smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #25

It's not about "reasoning" with ISIS, it's about not,continuing to fuel their recruitment campaign 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #31

Do you actually think that will stop them? smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #34

Yep. It's a 9th century mindset that wants to destroy hifiguy Nov 2015 #38

How has 15 years of intense US Military intervention in ME worked out for us so far? -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #39

The ME has been a tribal slaughterhouse for a thousand years. hifiguy Nov 2015 #55

If you ask me, we have not been aggressive enough. smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #89

We might start by calling-out Saudi Arabia for their complicity in 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #94

YES! Thank You! smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #131

How would they accomplish it? RichVRichV Nov 2015 #90

There is no way that they will 'conquor' the Western world. blackspade Nov 2015 #130

This is basically what Bernie says - cilla4progress Nov 2015 #26

Yes. I think he's making sense on this. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #33

Does that go for the Yazidis too? Must they leave 'Muslim lands' to stop getting killed? muriel_volestrangler Nov 2015 #30

Um, oil tularetom Nov 2015 #32

But..but...we're helping to spread democracy!! K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #35

+10 Exactly! -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #52

We broke it, we shouldn't just walk away and let them all kill each other jack_krass Nov 2015 #36

That would presume that our leaders WANT to fix it, that this was somehow an undesired result Hydra Nov 2015 #124

I agree but think we should turn the richie rich neocons upside down & shake out their petrodollars wordpix Nov 2015 #167

It would be an excellent beginning. hifiguy Nov 2015 #37

exactly how many not-insignicicant muslims are there? nt msongs Nov 2015 #42

Itis clearly not an insignificant number hifiguy Nov 2015 #49

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #92

And this is an excuse we are giving them when we destroy jwirr Nov 2015 #158

Ahh... The 'hide under the covers and hope it turns out ok' strategy... TipTok Nov 2015 #48

Are we at "Red Alert" yet? Maybe we should "Smoke 'em out" and "Bring it on" again. Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2015 #57

No. 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #58

That implies we have no interests in the area... TipTok Nov 2015 #63

Oh, we have "interests" all right. They're called Exxon, Shell, BP and the US MIC. -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #71

You dehumanize many people with that idiocy. joshcryer Nov 2015 #102

Your rude name-calling is hardly an "intelligent" reply 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #105

The Kurds don't have oil. joshcryer Nov 2015 #110

Hunt Oil, a close friend of GW Bush, was the first into Iraq - the Kurdish region. nt. polly7 Nov 2015 #113

Until our Country can find an alternative to oil, we will be staying there. Oil was discovered in Waldorf Nov 2015 #50

It's not the oil per se but the petro dollar that keeps us embroiled in the snappyturtle Nov 2015 #88

The US must remain in the Middle East until all of our oil is pumped out guillaumeb Nov 2015 #59

That appears to be the US game-plan 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #69

I never thought of that. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #74

That's not going to help. Oneironaut Nov 2015 #61

20,000 - 30,000 Murderous assholes in 1970 toyota pick-up trucks 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #66

Yep. It's bullshit. But people still believe what their TV tells them. Including Fox News. GoneFishin Nov 2015 #79

It's common sense. Oneironaut Nov 2015 #141

My point was, do you really think, even if the US left them completely alone, they would stop? Oneironaut Nov 2015 #138

We must find and cut off the funding for ISIS (and AQ etc) riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #148

Good point re: cutting off ISIS funding sources. -nt- 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #156

"They (ISIS) don't care if the West is attacking them or not." 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #155

Arm up the Kurds and give them a nation if they pull it off underpants Nov 2015 #82

If we leave but European nations stay, what's been gained? Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #85

How many more American soldiers do we sacrifice before we win? B Calm Nov 2015 #97

What's your solution, then? Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #118

So you want to continue wasting American lives fighting an endless war? Myself I B Calm Nov 2015 #132

We must find and cut off the funding for ISIS (and AQ etc) riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #153

That could be a good start Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #160

We have our Five Eyes spying already in place riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #161

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #96

You make some good points re: "A Middle East fully engulfed in war would be an unmitigated disaster" 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #107

Would be easy if we didn't have allies over there. joshcryer Nov 2015 #101

With "allies" like Saudi Arabia hifiguy Nov 2015 #126

Bush actually removed bases from Saudi Arabia. joshcryer Nov 2015 #128

Agreed, this is all blowback from our troops in their countries dreamnightwind Nov 2015 #108

But good luck trying to point that out, without getting called a "dreamer" and an "idiot" 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #109

Yes, I've seen that sentiment raging around here dreamnightwind Nov 2015 #114

Thank you for this 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #117

And thanks for your OP dreamnightwind Nov 2015 #127

This is a very simple, naive belief. Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #112

I think you misunderstand my POV 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #119

Unfortunately, the house is on fire... Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #120

My very first sentence of last post: " I'm not saying to completely disengage or isolate" 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #121

We have as limited of a role in the ME as we've had since 9/11 occurred. Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #129

You rightly point to a vacuum of military force in the region 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #136

Thing is, we're responsible... Drunken Irishman Nov 2015 #170

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #145

IMO our first mistake was to see 9/11 as a military problem. jwirr Nov 2015 #162

No one has any solutions for this mess. azmom Nov 2015 #115

I agree. It's not a solution exactly, but it's what we are left with, thanks to GWB 99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #122

How about we just stay out of Muslim lands?" Yupster Nov 2015 #133

Many of them weren't "muslim lands" per se, they were secular CJCRANE Nov 2015 #134

Yeah we made them do it Yupster Nov 2015 #164

Well our gulf allies are islamists CJCRANE Nov 2015 #165

That will have ZERO impact on the ideology of conquest of ISIS. ZEEE-RO. WinkyDink Nov 2015 #146

Ideology is only a part of it. What matters are funds and supply routes. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #149

But there are, for lack of a better word, cells already in central Europe. Just like with Munich '72 WinkyDink Nov 2015 #172

Too late for that we're already there. The question is what to do now. craigmatic Nov 2015 #171