General Discussion

treestar

(82,383 posts)

99. You may not be one, but are arguing like one

Mon May 28, 2012, 12:25 PM

May 2012

They too don't admit the difference between the liberal and a socialist, the way you're not allowing for the difference between a liberal and a conservative.

These things could be labeled based on people's positions and admitted. I don't know why people insist on using the more extreme label for people they don't agree with. It undermines their arguments from the start - if I can't figure out how I disagree with someone, I just label them a "corporatist" or a "communist." Well the liberal is not a communist and by calling them one, a right winger shows they can't figure out what the argument is. Likewise for leftists who refuse to get the difference between socialists and even centrists and the conservatives.

I can admit even Rmoney is not as Randian as Rand Paul or others of the far right. That doesn't mean I agree with Rmoney. It just means I admit there is a difference between Rmoney and those farther to his right.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

108 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

What's the difference between a "liberal" and a "leftist," if there is one... [View all] matmar May 2012 OP

Since neither term can be finitely defined, there are an infinite number of differences. Scuba May 2012 #1

My own look at the two words SecurityManager May 2012 #2

Agree completely with your definitions. PragmaticLiberal May 2012 #3

Those definitions are idiosyncratic. They don't match with any real-world use of the terms. Romulox May 2012 #4

"Hard Left" woulod be a Communist obamanut2012 May 2012 #20

I disagree with your defination of left. Swede May 2012 #21

The very fact that a leftist is interested in improving the conditions of all the people, shows Cal33 May 2012 #27

I would agree with these definitions. nt Honeycombe8 May 2012 #94

That about sums it up for me. Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #96

Liberal: believes that Capitalism can be made to work with regulation. Starry Messenger May 2012 #5

This. LeftyMom May 2012 #41

This sounds about right. limpyhobbler May 2012 #87

A liberal south of the border is called a leftist. Lasher May 2012 #6

Liberals are scared of the socialist label, leftists embrace it. Nt. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #7

Maybe they are not scared. Maybe they are just not socialists. treestar May 2012 #12

the ones that aren't socialists aren't liberals Warren Stupidity May 2012 #36

That is exactly what right wingers say treestar May 2012 #40

yeah that's it, I'm a right winger. Warren Stupidity May 2012 #72

You may not be one, but are arguing like one treestar May 2012 #99

Did I attack you personally? Warren Stupidity May 2012 #102

How is that responsive to my post? treestar May 2012 #106

Thank you, very well said. Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #97

Liberals are ambidextrous. randome May 2012 #8

I would say "liberal" describes a fairly specific set of positions, while a "leftist" is anyone Marr May 2012 #9

The historical use of "liberal" actually meant a rightwinger--a believer in laissez-faire economics. Romulox May 2012 #10

I would tend to follow the classic European model in defining those terms Douglas Carpenter May 2012 #11

This is the definition I always use....... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #13

Except when leftists themselves become fascists. geek tragedy May 2012 #14

That's totalitarian, not fascist.......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #17

Oh, FFS. Mao did not become a 'fascist.' The counter-revolution coalition_unwilling May 2012 #18

Everybody knows Mao was a tool of the Chinese corporations tralala May 2012 #91

Fascism is capitalism in total control of all branches of government. Starry Messenger May 2012 #31

Fascism is violently nationalistic DBoon May 2012 #34

Well, if Communists were executing Nazis, and Nazis were executing Communists... Starry Messenger May 2012 #38

Are you certain about your definitions? Puzzledtraveller May 2012 #98

"always" use? How free, and hence valid, is that? If you always use it, there is at least a 50:50 patrice May 2012 #67

Yep.always. I figure if it's good enough for......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #81

& There is at least a 50:50 probability that you just proved my points down-thread. nt patrice May 2012 #68

That is a very good definition IMO. redgreenandblue May 2012 #24

All liberals are leftists, but not all leftists are liberals. Standard coalition_unwilling May 2012 #15

That's good. But what are the differentiating traits? I suggest they have patrice May 2012 #25

Everyone on the left-hand side of the liberal-conservative spectrum believes coalition_unwilling May 2012 #30

The Libertarians I know have no regard for how lack of appropriate regulation produces slavery. patrice May 2012 #37

BTW, spectrums are too linear for me. There's too much that must be eliminated in order to patrice May 2012 #42

Because Liberal core values center around authentic freedom, not the means of production, patrice May 2012 #53

political compass rrneck May 2012 #28

Yeah, that site alludes to that Cartesian grid I mentioned. I'm a bit coalition_unwilling May 2012 #32

I've used it to no ill effect. rrneck May 2012 #33

Cool. I'll check it out later. I'm no guru on this sort of stuff either, but coalition_unwilling May 2012 #35

My score (coords) is pretty much what I expected whatchamacallit May 2012 #39

Me too. rrneck May 2012 #47

That's almost exactly what mine looks like. GoCubsGo May 2012 #58

Such things are limited meaning unless we know AND understand their method of CONSTRUCTION.nt patrice May 2012 #46

True. rrneck May 2012 #48

I actually like it too! But I am frustrated by its limitations. patrice May 2012 #54

I gave up on that quiz Art_from_Ark May 2012 #108

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Hatchling May 2012 #89

No difference, in this regard: MineralMan May 2012 #16

Relativity is not absolute.There are points of commonality, acquired from perspective/perception AND patrice May 2012 #26

Leftists are people to the Left of Libs/Progressives. FarLeftFist May 2012 #19

$50,000 a year, give or take a few jberryhill May 2012 #22

I'd go with Chris Hedge's definition: In America "classic liberals" are the political center. redgreenandblue May 2012 #23

I'd agree with all of that. /nt Marr May 2012 #50

A Discussion About The Differences Between Liberals and Leftists TBF May 2012 #29

I see an incipient authoritarianism in this statement: treestar May 2012 #44

Not sure why you interpret it that way - TBF May 2012 #51

That was a very close election treestar May 2012 #56

People don't decide. Money decides........ socialist_n_TN May 2012 #73

... TBF May 2012 #93

We still don't have to vote as the money directs treestar May 2012 #101

Good question. nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #43

"Leftist" is almost exclusively used by the RW as an epithet on kestrel91316 May 2012 #45

Yep. GoCubsGo May 2012 #60

Since both terms have been twisted into meaninglessness through misuse Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #49

Authoritarianism and egalitarianism are in no way mutually exclusive tralala May 2012 #80

Huh? Egalitarian Thug May 2012 #92

the better term is liberal and hard leftist DonCoquixote May 2012 #52

"A hard leftist thinks Stalin was great." This is completely false. white_wolf May 2012 #57

+1 Interestingly, TBF May 2012 #62

Strange to see Marx and Engles so far away on that scale. white_wolf May 2012 #79

They disagree with some of what Stalin does DonCoquixote May 2012 #76

You confuse individual rights with private property rights. white_wolf May 2012 #77

can't fix the system DonCoquixote May 2012 #86

Are you just making this stuff up as you go? n/t Catherina May 2012 #95

No DonCoquixote May 2012 #104

Liberals are part of the general Left, but not everyone on that side MrScorpio May 2012 #55

Leftists say Liberals areFascists because Leftists are motivated by political power &Liberals aren't patrice May 2012 #59

What? lol TBF May 2012 #63

It's as legitimate as #13 above. & though cites are useful, people CAN think about their experiences patrice May 2012 #65

Why the hostility? TBF May 2012 #69

Must we always have someone tell us what we think? nt patrice May 2012 #66

I don't understand this response either. Who is "we"? TBF May 2012 #70

Liberals already have power tralala May 2012 #88

Liberals do not think the ends justifies the means and some Leftists do. nt patrice May 2012 #61

Consequentialism came out of liberalism tralala May 2012 #90

Now I'd like to ask you something in return - TBF May 2012 #64

And, crickets. Somehow I'm not surprised. nt TBF May 2012 #71

SDS saying about liberals. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2012 #74

... TBF May 2012 #75

As good of a definition of liberals as I've ever seen.......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #85

Phil Ochs on the Liberal Douglas Carpenter May 2012 #78

A lot of people on this thread have demonstrated that they don't know the answer, LeftyMom May 2012 #82

You...you...lefty! randome May 2012 #83

Simple answer cthulu2016 May 2012 #84

The fact that this thread has continued this long... randome May 2012 #100

The order in which they will be sent to the camps when the Fourth Reich takes over? n/t Fumesucker May 2012 #103

Liberals believe in the magical ability to re-create the nostalgia of an economic exception. TheKentuckian May 2012 #105

Where? America is wacky right-wing extremist and not a good reference point. WriteWrong May 2012 #107