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jmowreader

(52,910 posts)
29. Time frame? There really isn't one
Fri Nov 20, 2015, 01:15 PM
Nov 2015

First, I must apologize: Shorts have to place collateral of 102 percent of the previous day's closing price on the stock they short, and some of them use margin (it is a line of credit with a LOT of rules) to do it.

Guys like our friend at the top of the list tend to hold their short positions open for hours or days...but there are people who hold short positions for YEARS. There are quite a few fees involved. First is collateral, which we discussed in the previous paragraph. Then there's a borrow fee, which is a percentage of the stock's closing price the day before you short it. The actual number depends on how hard it is to borrow the stock - if you want to short General Electric, the fee will be reasonable because there's a ton of it out there and the price doesn't move much; if you want to short Shake Shack - assuming you can at all; a lot of people want to short SHAK and the shares to do it with just plain ain't there - the fee will be outrageous. If the company whose stock you're doing the Vegas thing with declares a dividend, you have to pay the amount of that dividend to the firm you borrowed the stock from. (On the flipside, when you sell the stock at the start of the short the proceeds from that sale will be deposited in your brokerage account, and it'll draw interest.)

Where this guy fucked up is he didn't use the most basic investment safety techniques. When you decide to short you need to decide how much risk you can handle, how many fees you want to pay and how much reward you expect. Let's throw out a real easy short: 10,000 shares of a $20 stock with a 5 percent borrow fee, and you paid the collateral in cash because everyone has $204,000 collecting dust in the bank, right? The borrow fee is on an annual basis, so a buck a year per share of stock. You want $5 per share reward, you can handle $2 per share risk, and you want to pay no more than 50 cents per share in fees - which means you will cover the short no more than 183 days after you open it. When you enter the short contract you need to issue either two or three buy-to-cover orders, which are how you close a short. The first one executes 183 days from issuance regardless of price. The second executes if the stock hits $22, and the last if the stock hits $15 - this one is optional; if you think the company is on a death spiral you wouldn't buy this. When one executes the others are canceled. Conditional BTC orders cost money but it's not much. Our buddy didn't issue any of these and, as you can see, he really should have.

There is a special class of investor, the "accredited investor." If you're an individual and you want to be one you have to be worth at least $1 million, not counting the value of your house. (The theory is, a lot of high risk investments also require high investment sums, and they don't want people who really can't afford to play in Twelve Percent Land to lose their asses and bring down the system.) Only accredited investors can get into the seriously risky shit like hedge funds. I'm really shocked the SEC doesn't require shorts to be accredited investors, but they don't.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"you have to feel for this poor guy". Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #1
He did catch a monumental piece of bad luck given the dramatic price increase. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #8
It's impossible to "short on margin" jmowreader Nov 2015 #20
Right, of course. Got my terminology mixed up. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #25
Time frame? There really isn't one jmowreader Nov 2015 #29
Interesting. Thanks for the crash course. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #37
Exactly! That's basically saying you should feel sorry for someone and donate to them smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #34
So am I supposed to feel sorry for people that go to Vegas and lose their shirt? Rex Nov 2015 #2
The difference is that Vegas casinos will often reduce the amount big spenders lose kiva Nov 2015 #16
Never ryan_cats Nov 2015 #3
+1 Go Vols Nov 2015 #9
That is great advice but once Glass-Steagall was repealed jwirr Nov 2015 #13
That's how it works, and he knew the rules when he started to gamble . . . hatrack Nov 2015 #4
Looking good, Billy Ray? Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #5
Margin called! longship Nov 2015 #6
You know, I was going to go back in time and kill baby Hitler Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #7
I have no sympathy. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #10
If GummyBearz Nov 2015 #30
Two words. 'Put option' Travis_0004 Nov 2015 #11
Sounds like he's a day trader though. woolldog Nov 2015 #26
He might actually have to get a real job now. smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #35
I like his honesty. I was going to give but he only asked for 5 grand and he has 5,130 already yeoman6987 Nov 2015 #12
The fact that he's already received over $5k EL34x4 Nov 2015 #24
+1 Egnever Nov 2015 #39
Why the hell would he not use a put option? Recursion Nov 2015 #14
It's gotta be satire Cal Carpenter Nov 2015 #15
He was playing Russian roulette and lost. lpbk2713 Nov 2015 #17
I feel some of his pain but would not give him anything. He'll lose a lot of his life and... BlueJazz Nov 2015 #18
I'm sympathetic philosslayer Nov 2015 #19
Yeah Dorian Gray Nov 2015 #23
Too small to fail? MowCowWhoHow III Nov 2015 #21
Too bad, so sad.... Adrahil Nov 2015 #22
*this* is why *everyone* benefits from a government safety net unblock Nov 2015 #27
What's his job again? BeyondGeography Nov 2015 #28
"Martin Shkreli (yes, THAT Shkreli) gained control of a majority of the shares." KamaAina Nov 2015 #31
All he has to do is shoot some Blue_Tires Nov 2015 #32
Sorry. Im fresh out of fucks to give. bunnies Nov 2015 #33
As robber baron Jay Gould supposedly said gratuitous Nov 2015 #36
I'm evil geomon666 Nov 2015 #40
Show some compassion. If the GoFundMe were open, ericson00 Nov 2015 #38
No, he's not an entrepreneur. No pity, here. Let him open a small lindysalsagal Nov 2015 #41
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