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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. JFK was a Democrat of the New Deal.
Sun Nov 22, 2015, 04:39 PM
Nov 2015

He believed in using the powers of government to make life better for ALL Americans. He also believed in democracy for other countries, from Congo to Vietnam.



Dodd and Dulles vs. Kennedy in Africa

“In assessing the central character ...
Gibbon’s description of the Byzantine general
Belisarius may suggest a comparison:
‘His imperfections flowed from the contagion of the times;
his virtues were his own.’”
— Richard Mahoney on President Kennedy


By Jim DiEugenio
CTKA, From the January-February 1999 issue (Vol. 6 No. 2)

EXCERPT…

The Self-Education of John F. Kennedy

During Kennedy’s six years in the House, 1947-1952, he concentrated on domestic affairs, bread and butter issues that helped his middle class Massachusetts constituents. As Henry Gonzalez noted in his blurb for Donald Gibson’s Battling Wall Street, he met Kennedy at a housing conference in 1951 and got the impression that young Kennedy was genuinely interested in the role that government could play in helping most Americans. But when Kennedy, his father, and his advisers decided to run for the upper house in 1952, they knew that young Jack would have to educate himself in the field of foreign affairs and gain a higher cosmopolitan profile. After all, he was running against that effete, urbane, Boston Brahmin Henry Cabot Lodge. So Kennedy decided to take two seven-week-long trips. The first was to Europe. The second was a little unusual in that his itinerary consisted of places like the Middle East, India, and Indochina. (While in India, he made the acquaintance of Prime Minister Nehru who would end up being a lifelong friend and adviser.)

Another unusual thing about the second trip was his schedule after he got to his stops. In Saigon, he ditched his French military guides and sought out the names of the best reporters and State Department officials so he would not get the standard boilerplate on the French colonial predicament in Indochina. After finding these sources, he would show up at their homes and apartments unannounced. His hosts were often surprised that such a youthful looking young man could be a congressman. Kennedy would then pick their minds at length as to the true political conditions in that country.

If there is a real turning point in Kennedy’s political career it is this trip. There is little doubt that what he saw and learned deeply affected and altered his world view and he expressed his developing new ideas in a speech he made upon his return on November 14, 1951. Speaking of French Indochina he said: "This is an area of human conflict between civilizations striving to be born and those desperately trying to retain what they have held for so long." He later added that "the fires of nationalism so long dormant have been kindled and are now ablaze....Here colonialism is not a topic for tea-talk discussion; it is the daily fare of millions of men." He then criticized the U. S. State Department for its laid back and lackadaisical approach to this problem:

One finds too many of our representatives toadying to the shorter aims of other Western nations with no eagerness to understand the real hopes and desires of the people to which they are accredited.


The basic idea that Kennedy brought back from this trip was that, in the Third World, the colonial or imperial powers were bound to lose in the long run since the force of nationalism in those nascent countries was so powerful, so volcanic, that no extended empire could contain it indefinitely. This did not mean that Kennedy would back any revolutionary force fighting an imperial power. Although he understood the appeal of communism to the revolutionaries, he was against it. He wanted to establish relations and cooperate with leaders of the developing world who wished to find a "third way," one that was neither Marxist nor necessarily pro-Western. He was trying to evolve a policy that considered the particular history and circumstances of the nations now trying to break the shackles of poverty and ignorance inflicted upon them by the attachments of empire. Kennedy understood and sympathized with the temperaments of those leaders of the Third World who wished to be nonaligned with either the Russians or the Americans and this explains his relationships with men like Nehru and Sukarno of Indonesia. So, for Kennedy, Nixon’s opposition toward Ho Chi Minh’s upcoming victory over the French in Vietnam was not so much a matter of Cold War ideology, but one of cool and measured pragmatism. As he stated in 1953, the year before the French fell:

The war would never be successful ... unless large numbers of the people of Vietnam were won over from their sullen neutrality and open hostility. This could never be done ... unless they were assured beyond doubt that complete independence would be theirs at the conclusion of the war.

To say the least, this is not what the Dulles brothers John Foster and Allen had in mind. Once the French empire fell, they tried to urge upon Eisenhower an overt American intervention in the area. When Eisenhower said no, Allen Dulles sent in a massive CIA covert operation headed by Air Force officer Edward Lansdale. In other words, the French form of foreign domination was replaced by the American version.

CONTINUED…

http://www.ctka.net/pr199-africa.html



Jim DiEugenio is a DUer.

Thank you for caring about what being a Kennedy Democrat is all about, Waiting For Everyman. That is, the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.
So sad, 52 years later Politicalboi Nov 2015 #1
Secret Service got ordered OFF the bumper at Love Field. Octafish Nov 2015 #4
Don't turn a nice post into some CT shit. Just keep it like it was. I knew you started it for this. Logical Nov 2015 #13
Nothing says 'Democracy' like 'Shutup.' Octafish Nov 2015 #15
Oswald did it. Give up the make believe. nt Logical Nov 2015 #16
So, when you can't show where I'm wrong, you smear me. Nice. Octafish Nov 2015 #21
LOL "umbrella man"!!!! Logical Nov 2015 #24
The video taken minutes before the assassination shows the agents ordered OFF the bumper. Octafish Nov 2015 #47
Somebody should, indeed, give up the make-believe. nt villager Nov 2015 #25
If logical questions unanswered all these years bother you, change your name MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #78
Horseshit he did. He was a patsy. A dupe. A throw-away. trof Nov 2015 #89
That Oswald was a low-level CIA asset is NOT hifiguy Nov 2015 #97
What if it's true though? PatrickforO Nov 2015 #27
You fooled me!! :-) Logical Nov 2015 #28
We have lots of know-it-alls today Waiting For Everyman Nov 2015 #2
JFK was a Democrat of the New Deal. Octafish Nov 2015 #8
To be a Kennedy Democrat is high praise. Waiting For Everyman Nov 2015 #10
You may enjoy David Talbot's new history, ''The Devil's Chessboard'' Octafish Nov 2015 #11
I read the excerpt of this book on Salon ellie Nov 2015 #14
Thank you, Ellie. I heard him speak in 2013... Octafish Nov 2015 #17
I will definitely ellie Nov 2015 #23
It is essential reading. hifiguy Nov 2015 #59
I caught a little bit of a program today that was running clips of the actual coverage from dflprincess Nov 2015 #34
What I find extremely curious Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #72
Nixon was an asshole, Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #74
What I find bizarre Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #75
It was the 60s, a volatile time. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #76
Yeah, it was a volatile time Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #77
You did not address my other point. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #80
Why would Nixon have MLK and Malcolm X bumped off? Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #81
You're proving my point. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #83
How am I proving your point? Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #84
There were at least five political assassinations in the 1960s. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #85
One more thing Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #82
What a beautiful song! n/t BuelahWitch Nov 2015 #57
Thanks, Octafish! JFK and his story are really more complicated than his admirers or detractors.... LongTomH Nov 2015 #3
Great nations build great civilizations. Empires make wars for profit. Octafish Nov 2015 #30
A big, fat K&R! CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2015 #5
Thank you, CaliforniaPeggy! Did you read what Prescott Bush wrote to Clover Dulles? Octafish Nov 2015 #31
Thank you, my dear octafish--I had not read this. Pretty interesting stuff! CaliforniaPeggy Nov 2015 #35
Phil Shenon on Coast To Coast last night claims Poppy had no connection to the assassination librechik Nov 2015 #49
Prescott Bush was the CIA's bagman in the Senate. hifiguy Nov 2015 #60
Guy is working to divert discussion of conspiracy involving secret US agencies. Octafish Nov 2015 #69
thank you, Octafish librechik Nov 2015 #86
People still love JFK and project their hopes on him decades later. In truth he was moderate. craigmatic Nov 2015 #6
hoo boy. ucrdem Nov 2015 #7
Ok name one initiative he got put in place to help the poor in this country? craigmatic Nov 2015 #12
The Cuban Missile Crisis. H2O Man Nov 2015 #19
Plus Peace Corps, space program, nuclear test ban treaty, and the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 ucrdem Nov 2015 #32
Recording of JFK telling Sargent Shriver not to let CIA infiltrate the Peace Corps [audio] MinM Nov 2015 #56
MinM! ucrdem Nov 2015 #68
The truth about how close we came to annihilating each other wasn't known for 30 years. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #52
New Frontier legislation: ucrdem Nov 2015 #29
Universal Health Care. Octafish Nov 2015 #55
President John F. Kennedy's Civil Rights Address ucrdem Nov 2015 #67
Transcript link and highlights: ucrdem Nov 2015 #90
Turns out he's proposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964: ucrdem Nov 2015 #91
Even after so many years, Blue_In_AK Nov 2015 #9
I was six, Blue_In_AK. Octafish Nov 2015 #53
Recommended. H2O Man Nov 2015 #18
And all were men of the Left, to varying degrees. hifiguy Nov 2015 #61
I was 11 years old and they stopped school to tell us what happened. JEB Nov 2015 #20
Economically, JEB, much different, based on the suppressed record. Octafish Nov 2015 #96
Thank you, Octafish JEB Nov 2015 #100
never. held. to. account. nashville_brook Nov 2015 #22
Interview with blacklisted comedian, Mort Sahl, 1968 quotes and warnings after JFK's death. Octafish Nov 2015 #98
Gerald Posner said it right. longship Nov 2015 #26
That's what the House Select Committee apparently concluded. ucrdem Nov 2015 #33
Well, all the forensics say one shooter. longship Nov 2015 #39
Depends on who you ask I suppose. ucrdem Nov 2015 #40
Produce forensic evidence that says there was another shooter, then. longship Nov 2015 #41
The doctors at Parkland have repeatedly said hifiguy Nov 2015 #62
Absolute Rubbish longship Nov 2015 #64
There Are No Forensics Supporting One Gun ProfessorGAC Nov 2015 #43
Do you mean other than the spent bullets retrieved? longship Nov 2015 #44
Yes, I Mean Those ProfessorGAC Nov 2015 #45
Two. They found two, as far as I can remember. longship Nov 2015 #46
Posner the plagiarist? n/t deutsey Nov 2015 #51
Plagiarist Posner MinM Nov 2015 #54
Knew you would have something interesting today! Thank you, Sir! Mnemosyne Nov 2015 #36
JFK selected Abraham Bolden to integrate White House Secret Service detail. Octafish Nov 2015 #101
the 1880s weren't feudal! MisterP Nov 2015 #37
DURec leftstreet Nov 2015 #38
Oliver Stone: JFK conspiracy deniers are in denial Octafish Nov 2015 #104
Kicking... CanSocDem Nov 2015 #42
CIA Dulles hired MAFIA to kill Castro in 1960, yet US media continue to misreport it as JFK's idea. Octafish Nov 2015 #106
When they release all the government documents about the assassination Generic Other Nov 2015 #48
''All of them together will observe the law of silence...They don't want to know.'' Octafish Nov 2015 #107
Thanks, as always deutsey Nov 2015 #50
The New York Daily News of Nov. 23, 1963 Octafish Nov 2015 #88
Except for 'advisors' in South Vietnam and that Bay of Pigs thing.... Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #58
The Bay of Pigs was a CIA/Mafia operation hifiguy Nov 2015 #63
Thanks for the clarification. Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #66
Regarding Vietnam: JFK ordered withdrawal. LBJ reversed it. Octafish Nov 2015 #70
Regarding Bay of Pigs: Dulles and CIA did not tell JFK security mission was compromised. Octafish Nov 2015 #71
"This little light of mine..." kick and recommend n/t bobthedrummer Nov 2015 #65
JFK personally selected Abraham Bolden to integrate WH Secret Service detail. Octafish Nov 2015 #73
No, television didn't bring it up... MrMickeysMom Nov 2015 #79
Bertrand Russell asked that central question in 1964. Octafish Nov 2015 #87
Recced. Thanks for the o.p. info, and for making a space for the info provided by other good Mc Mike Nov 2015 #92
JFK's death changed government policy in matters of war and peace. Octafish Nov 2015 #95
That was a radically big policy reversal, within a few days of 11/22. Mc Mike Nov 2015 #110
President Carter did too. craigmatic Nov 2015 #93
BFEE Safari Club did unto President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter bad things. Octafish Nov 2015 #94
Stephanie's 2-22-2006 UAE and BCCI thread reposted for those that love the truth bobthedrummer Nov 2015 #99
We've learned a lot about money and power since BCCI... Octafish Nov 2015 #108
Who could imagine "our" goverment would actively seek to move jobs overseas. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #102
Lt. Cmdr. Terri Pike, USN, was relieved of duty for doing her duty re JFK assassination records. Octafish Nov 2015 #109
Wow! Thanks, Octafish. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #111
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #103
Needs another kick!! (eom) CanSocDem Nov 2015 #105
Listen in on LBJ and Hoover talk about Oswald and ''Rubenstein'' Octafish Dec 2015 #112
I'm reading the book now, and it's a real American horror show nikto Jan 2016 #113
Money trumps peace. So does power. Octafish Jan 2016 #114
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