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In reply to the discussion: JFK worked to keep peace, bring prosperity for all. Others since 22 Nov 1963, not so much. [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)30. Great nations build great civilizations. Empires make wars for profit.
JFK respected other nations -- including the former colonies of European nations in Africa and Asia -- and peoples. How many today think he'd lie America into war to steal other people' oil?
In his landmark work, JFK and Vietnam, the then US Army major and West Point professor Newman found that the Pentagon and CIA gave LBJ, as veep, a more accurate picture of what was happening in Vietnam than they provided JFK, as president.
Why? JFK said he would not get into a land war in Southeast Asia and he certainly was not going to place US draftees in the middle of Vietnam's civil war; Johnson would and did after the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Vietnam Withdrawal Plans
The 1990s saw the gaps in the declassified record on Vietnam filled inwith spring 1963 plans for the complete withdrawal of U.S. forces. An initial 1000 man pullout (of the approximately 17,000 stationed in Vietnam at that time) was initiated in October 1963, though it was diluted and rendered meaningless in the aftermath of Kennedy's death. The longer-range plans called for complete withdrawal of U. S. forces and a "Vietnamization" of the war, scheduled to happen largely after the 1964 elections.
The debate over whether withdrawal plans were underway in 1963 is now settled. What remains contentious is the "what if" scenario. What would Kennedy have done if he lived, given the worsening situation in Vietnam after the coup which resulted in the assassination of Vietnamese President Diem?
At the core of the debate is this question: Did President Kennedy really believe the rosy picture of the war effort being conveyed by his military advisors. Or was he onto the game, and instead couching his withdrawal plans in the language of optimism being fed to the White House?
The landmark book JFK and Vietnam asserted the latter, that Kennedy knew he was being deceived and played a deception game of his own, using the military's own rosy analysis as a justification for withdrawal. Newman's analysis, with its dark implications regarding JFK's murder, has been attacked from both mainstream sources and even those on the left. No less than Noam Chomsky devoted an entire book to disputing the thesis.
But declassifications since Newman's 1992 book have only served to buttress the thesis that the Vietnam withdrawal, kept under wraps to avoid a pre-election attack from the right, was Kennedy's plan regardless of the war's success. New releases have also brought into focus the chilling visions of the militarists of that erafour Presidents were advised to use nuclear weapons in Indochina. A recent book by David Kaiser, American Tragedy, shows a military hell bent on war in Asia.
CONTINUED with very important IMFO links:
http://www.history-matters.com/vietnam1963.htm
Recently, The Nation magazine wanted to know "Why don't Americans know what really happened in Vietnam?" Interesting read, it brings up how much USA uses the volunteer military and observes the corporate owned news media don't want to bring that up so that people continue to thank the troops for their service without wondering why they're tasked with missions in 133 countries around the world. What the article missed and people need to know:
JFK ordered withdrawal from Vietnam. LBJ reversed it four days after Dallas.
The 1,000 advisors were the beginning. All US military personnel were to be out of the country by the end of 1965, reported James K. Galbraith.
Then in NSAM 273, four days after the assassination in Dallas, LBJ changes the policy to stay and support South Vietnam in its "contest against the externally directed and supported Communist conspiracy."
That important part of JFK history does not get mentioned on television or Corporate Owned News.
PS: Thank you, LongTomH! I look forward to learning more about that book and author Frank White. Very interesting thesis. Me, I'm more the Quixote type wishing we had a space Navy.
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JFK worked to keep peace, bring prosperity for all. Others since 22 Nov 1963, not so much. [View all]
Octafish
Nov 2015
OP
Don't turn a nice post into some CT shit. Just keep it like it was. I knew you started it for this.
Logical
Nov 2015
#13
The video taken minutes before the assassination shows the agents ordered OFF the bumper.
Octafish
Nov 2015
#47
If logical questions unanswered all these years bother you, change your name
MrMickeysMom
Nov 2015
#78
I caught a little bit of a program today that was running clips of the actual coverage from
dflprincess
Nov 2015
#34
Thanks, Octafish! JFK and his story are really more complicated than his admirers or detractors....
LongTomH
Nov 2015
#3
Thank you, CaliforniaPeggy! Did you read what Prescott Bush wrote to Clover Dulles?
Octafish
Nov 2015
#31
Thank you, my dear octafish--I had not read this. Pretty interesting stuff!
CaliforniaPeggy
Nov 2015
#35
Phil Shenon on Coast To Coast last night claims Poppy had no connection to the assassination
librechik
Nov 2015
#49
Guy is working to divert discussion of conspiracy involving secret US agencies.
Octafish
Nov 2015
#69
People still love JFK and project their hopes on him decades later. In truth he was moderate.
craigmatic
Nov 2015
#6
Ok name one initiative he got put in place to help the poor in this country?
craigmatic
Nov 2015
#12
Plus Peace Corps, space program, nuclear test ban treaty, and the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964
ucrdem
Nov 2015
#32
Recording of JFK telling Sargent Shriver not to let CIA infiltrate the Peace Corps [audio]
MinM
Nov 2015
#56
The truth about how close we came to annihilating each other wasn't known for 30 years.
Major Hogwash
Nov 2015
#52
Interview with blacklisted comedian, Mort Sahl, 1968 quotes and warnings after JFK's death.
Octafish
Nov 2015
#98
CIA Dulles hired MAFIA to kill Castro in 1960, yet US media continue to misreport it as JFK's idea.
Octafish
Nov 2015
#106
''All of them together will observe the law of silence...They don't want to know.''
Octafish
Nov 2015
#107
Regarding Bay of Pigs: Dulles and CIA did not tell JFK security mission was compromised.
Octafish
Nov 2015
#71
Recced. Thanks for the o.p. info, and for making a space for the info provided by other good
Mc Mike
Nov 2015
#92
Stephanie's 2-22-2006 UAE and BCCI thread reposted for those that love the truth
bobthedrummer
Nov 2015
#99
Who could imagine "our" goverment would actively seek to move jobs overseas.
Enthusiast
Nov 2015
#102