General Discussion

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)

120. Your fever dreams and invective notwithstanding...

Thu Nov 26, 2015, 05:46 PM

Nov 2015

I believe this was no fuck up. It was a deliberate provocation by Turkey. Yeah, Turkey has the right to shoot down intruding jets (let's not question the intrusion for right now), but that doesn't mean it should.

Where it leads, nobody knows. I understand Erdogan's Turkmen and Al Nusra puppets are now wishing for the good old days as Russian bombs pour down on them.

Erdogan may also have fucked any possibility of a unified front against ISIS. While NATO publicly stands with Turkey, I'd love to be a fly on the way for some of those conversations.

I know you have a personal thing for Putin, but I think Erdogan is far more of the bad actor when it comes to Syria. But you know this, I'm sure.

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Are we siding with those who fight ISIS, or with those who protect them?? [View all] darkangel218 Nov 2015 OP

What an odd question. I am siding with those who oppose Daesh. I can't speak for everybody. nt Electric Monk Nov 2015 #1

Yes. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #2

Beat me to it :) arcane1 Nov 2015 #4

+1 TIME TO PANIC Nov 2015 #28

Yep, just about to say that. n/t Aerows Nov 2015 #121

Good question! "Our side" is shooting down people who are bombing Isis. Makes you wonder... grahamhgreen Nov 2015 #3

The jet that was shot down was not, according to Turkey, targeting ISIS. CentralMass Nov 2015 #29

They weren't bombing ISIS. The plane was bombing anti-Assad rebels. jeff47 Nov 2015 #49

Anti-Assad Rebels atreides1 Nov 2015 #57

Because the claim is Russia is there to fight ISIS. They aren't fighting ISIS. jeff47 Nov 2015 #61

Russia are fighting both Isis and Al Qaeda. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #64

Except almost all of their bombs are falling on places where ISIS is not located. jeff47 Nov 2015 #70

Many of them with Al Qaeda. Just look at that list posted elsewhere on DU. When Assad goes all hell CJCRANE Nov 2015 #74

And if Assad stays, all hell will break loose. jeff47 Nov 2015 #103

Because CNN says he's an evil dictator. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #110

No, because his security forces tortured a 13-year-old to death jeff47 Nov 2015 #112

3 of six links are to CNN: ucrdem Nov 2015 #113

And those reports from CNN were not contradicted by the other news sources. jeff47 Nov 2015 #123

Almost all the other opposition groups are Islamist militants, including FSA and Turkomen militias. leveymg Nov 2015 #107

I agree. There is not good side in Syria at this time. There may be good individuals, but JDPriestly Nov 2015 #127

They're bombing ISIS oil facilities and trucks. ozone_man Nov 2015 #67

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #97

I'd appreciate Munificence Nov 2015 #94

I was using shorthand that the poster was using. jeff47 Nov 2015 #101

Good question. kentuck Nov 2015 #5

Dichotomous thinking works for movies. This is real life. uppityperson Nov 2015 #6

I just watched a video of the Russian pilots being shot to death as they parachuted down forsaken mortal Nov 2015 #7

This is the kind of fuck-up everyone predicted when Russia moved in to support the dictator Assad uhnope Nov 2015 #30

Your fever dreams and invective notwithstanding... Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #120

... 840high Nov 2015 #35

So we need to show you videos of Russian bombs landing on civilians jeff47 Nov 2015 #50

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #92

:facepalm: jeff47 Nov 2015 #98

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #99

We are Bombing he Hell out of Daesh. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #8

Turkey obviously is not helping. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #9

July 25 "Turkish warplanes bomb ISIS positions in Syria for the first time" Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #11

Lol. one time?? darkangel218 Nov 2015 #13

Russia is really not fighting Daesh, which is the problem. Chan790 Nov 2015 #22

They're NOT fighting ISIS/Daesh though -- that's the problem. Codeine Nov 2015 #32

Russia bombed 500 Isis oil tankers. The western coalition then had to play catch up CJCRANE Nov 2015 #66

Exactly rusty fender Nov 2015 #12

They should leave NATO. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #16

Right, all those countries were bombing them for a year and they got bigger! CJCRANE Nov 2015 #14

Which is the biggest Aerows Nov 2015 #122

More to the point...Russia isn't. Chan790 Nov 2015 #19

I would add combatants to your excellent list nadinbrzezinski Nov 2015 #41

Don't forget the "sides" within your groups. jeff47 Nov 2015 #52

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #104

Why don't you post another article from a media source funded entirely by Russia. jeff47 Nov 2015 #106

Both. hifiguy Nov 2015 #10

Step One: The US destroys a country in the name of whatever. guillaumeb Nov 2015 #15

You got it, guillaume Laughing Mirror Nov 2015 #93

The enemy of my enemy isn't my friend. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #17

Why is Assad our enemy? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #18

I'd forgotten about Assad, actually. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2015 #21

So Turkey, who borders Syria, does not want Assad in power. They have been suporting Syrian CentralMass Nov 2015 #20

But...if Russia just targeted Isis as the west and our allies want CJCRANE Nov 2015 #24

I think that everthing that we do in the ME turns to $h.t. CentralMass Nov 2015 #26

Anything ANYBODY does in the ME turns to shit. Codeine Nov 2015 #33

Russia isn't hitting ISIS targets. jeff47 Nov 2015 #54

What about the 500 Isis oil trucks and Isis oil facilities that even PBS showed being bombed by the CJCRANE Nov 2015 #68

When opponents are killing to get their way, quaint things like borders mean little unless HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #69

It appears we are siding with everybody. AngryAmish Nov 2015 #23

On Tuesdays we're 'anti-ISIS'. Check back on Wednesday. trof Nov 2015 #25

yep +100 840high Nov 2015 #36

Turkey Are Not Our Friends SoCalMusicLover Nov 2015 #27

It's not a difficult choice for me. plus5mace Nov 2015 #31

plus5mace? Codeine Nov 2015 #34

Everyone hates Clerics until they need a resurrection spell. plus5mace Nov 2015 #45

Russia is bombing two targets, Syrian rebels trying to overthow CentralMass Nov 2015 #37

The rebels include al qeada and other Islamic jihadists killbotfactory Nov 2015 #40

Its beyond my scope.Though it seems that Russia is clearly operating to keep Assad in power. CentralMass Nov 2015 #46

There is no scenario in which Russia will accept the loss of Syria, plus5mace Nov 2015 #44

The civil war created the power vacuum that ISIS filled. killbotfactory Nov 2015 #117

Well yeah, according to the US press... MattSh Nov 2015 #128

Are we falling for Russian propaganda that everyone that isn't Assad is ISIS? renegade000 Nov 2015 #38

Not that black and white at all nadinbrzezinski Nov 2015 #39

Thank you underpants Nov 2015 #56

Assad was a model head of state, then bang, he was evil dictator du jour. ucrdem Nov 2015 #42

Assad was a model head of state? Igel Nov 2015 #47

But the fact is he was a friend and ally until about four years ago. ucrdem Nov 2015 #48

Do you need me to post pictures of US officials "being nice" to Saddam and Gadaffi? jeff47 Nov 2015 #55

"we'd prefer someone else" is not a reason to be complicit in a humanitarian catastrophe. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #58

There already was a humanitarian catastrophe. It had been going on for decades. jeff47 Nov 2015 #59

Assad is supported by the Syrian populace and regime change is anti-democratic and despotic. ucrdem Nov 2015 #60

Um...no. See, the Syrian populace rebelled against Assad. That's who the "rebels" are. jeff47 Nov 2015 #62

Oh baloney. The insurgents were shipped in by the planeload and that's still the case. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #63

Not baloney. Assad was in power just like Saddam and Gaddafi were - kill the opposition. jeff47 Nov 2015 #65

Yeah that Arab spring thing didn't go so well so here come the air strikes. ucrdem Nov 2015 #71

Well, it's hard to vote when the local dictator has killed you for rebelling. jeff47 Nov 2015 #76

It's a failed regime change op and we need to get out of that business. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #79

So that Assad can go back to torturing and killing his enemies. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #80

It was an Islamist rebellion funded and armed by outside sources. nt CJCRANE Nov 2015 #72

Thank you. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #73

It isn't a monolithic rebellion. That's why the rebels are fractured. jeff47 Nov 2015 #75

Many of them are foreign jihadis. Hence why the Pentagon ended up with only 5 moderate rebels. CJCRANE Nov 2015 #77

No, most of the foreign jihadis are going to ISIS. jeff47 Nov 2015 #78

"Assad persecuting the Christians?" Let me guess, CNN? ucrdem Nov 2015 #81

No, he basically slaughtered anyone who got in his way. Just like any other dictator. jeff47 Nov 2015 #82

See above. nt ucrdem Nov 2015 #84

Not even the RW believes that. In fact many of them know that Assad accepts Christians CJCRANE Nov 2015 #86

Gaddafi, Saddam, Mubarak, Assad accepted Christians. Syrian Christians have asked the west to stop CJCRANE Nov 2015 #83

"Accepted" as in "only killed some of them". jeff47 Nov 2015 #85

Saddam's second in command was a Christian. Attacks against Coptic Christians increased under CJCRANE Nov 2015 #89

As I keep saying, everyone involved has blood on their hands. jeff47 Nov 2015 #91

So you prefer to ally with the islamist gulf monarchies to spread democracy? CJCRANE Nov 2015 #95

Nope. If I could wave a magic wand, I'd get us the fuck out of the region. jeff47 Nov 2015 #100

Syria is way too complicated to reduce to simplistic us vs. them thinking. cemaphonic Nov 2015 #43

Yes. nt tblue37 Nov 2015 #51

Both!! nt Aria36 Nov 2015 #53

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #87

Who knows? No one. We just feel better about our collective selves libdem4life Nov 2015 #88

Hope this helps ... obnoxiousdrunk Nov 2015 #90

Thank you, I finally understand whats going on. darkangel218 Nov 2015 #96

I love this! Chemisse Nov 2015 #105

This needs to go viral eissa Nov 2015 #124

+1 darkangel218 Nov 2015 #129

As usual we will side with... abakan Nov 2015 #102

It's not a binary war Bradical79 Nov 2015 #108

It's a bs propaganda war on Assad. ucrdem Nov 2015 #109

Lol, nonsense Bradical79 Nov 2015 #119

We're actively supporting terrorism LittleBlue Nov 2015 #111

We <3 ISIS Matrosov Nov 2015 #114

Welcome Matrosov ucrdem Nov 2015 #116

Reality Check: Proof U.S. Government Wanted ISIS To Emerge In Syria killbotfactory Nov 2015 #115

Probably both NobodyHere Nov 2015 #118

I don't think we have any fucking idea TheFarseer Nov 2015 #125

Easy, both. cheapdate Nov 2015 #126