General Discussion

packman

(16,296 posts)

95. Or, you can vote Republican.

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 05:09 PM

Nov 2015

NEVER, NEVER I SAY

Hell, I love diversity. Love it in food, culture, dress (except for the theme of this posting). What I can't stand and will never abide is any culture that subjugates and - because of "tradition" - places a class or group in an inferior position.

For example, I don't like the Indian culture of untouchables but understand it's historical and traditional roots.

Yes, I agree that time will pass and this too shall pass away - but it doesn't mean I have to like it and have a positive reaction to it. I guess I'm not as liberal as some.

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Culture shock - woman in black Niqab at grocery store [View all] packman Nov 2015 OP

And so begins the great conflict of the time. Shandris Nov 2015 #1

"Muslim culture" is not a monolith. There's all kinds of "Muslim culture" out there. MADem Nov 2015 #5

Thank you uppityperson Nov 2015 #8

Anytime! MADem Nov 2015 #28

Culture by definition isn't a monolith. Nothing comprised of a group of individuals can be... Shandris Nov 2015 #11

It was heartening to see shots of a protest from Turkey yesterday Retrograde Nov 2015 #15

Modesty is a relative term. In the Shah's Iran, and in Saddam's Iraq, there were no scarves MADem Nov 2015 #17

I'm quite sure they would like us to leave our vaginas... 3catwoman3 Nov 2015 #101

Just ask these women... Tanuki Nov 2015 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author marmar Dec 2015 #137

Last year I went with my family to universal studios in Los Angeles in August kimbutgar Nov 2015 #2

Good point made about what may be under. Hortensis Nov 2015 #36

Many are and do -- and others are not happy and feel they have no choice. pnwmom Nov 2015 #63

Certainly. But I still don't insult strange women by assuming Hortensis Nov 2015 #81

That's the whole point of the burka & niqab, even hijab. vaberella Dec 2015 #145

Chapel veils (or even a Kleenex) ScreamingMeemie Nov 2015 #3

Not anything like a full burqa every time you leave the house nt riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #4

I am simply reminiscing with another DUer. Thanks for understanding that. nt ScreamingMeemie Nov 2015 #7

I understand. I tried to keep my comment neutral, no snark riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #9

Thanks! ScreamingMeemie Nov 2015 #10

Kleenex on the head always seemed... 3catwoman3 Nov 2015 #102

Right? I mean why couldn't we just confess to being veil-less heathens on Saturday? ScreamingMeemie Nov 2015 #107

It's a tough choice for people from those cultures LittleBlue Nov 2015 #6

That's assuming they have a choice at all. davidn3600 Nov 2015 #25

I see two or three a day alcibiades_mystery Nov 2015 #12

I also see two or three a day. I'm not used to it. Matariki Dec 2015 #122

Damn any culture that considers itself entitled to pass judgment on entire peoples BainsBane Nov 2015 #13

We agree on something. n/t Comrade Grumpy Nov 2015 #16

There's hijab, though, and there's HIJAB. A burqa is a very different thing from scarf/manteau. MADem Nov 2015 #20

They are all forms of veiling BainsBane Nov 2015 #24

People stare at niqabs in Tehran! Subtly, of course--but they get attention. MADem Nov 2015 #85

as a great purveyor of woman's rights I would assume you know they really don't have a "choice" snooper2 Nov 2015 #89

Well, duh. Who would walk around in a blanket when it's ninety plus degrees if they had a choice? MADem Dec 2015 #150

This is true ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #147

Veiling women's faces and hair and swathing them in robes has a long history in the West, too: tblue37 Nov 2015 #22

Very true. Kath1 Nov 2015 #52

I've worked with a lot of Iranians in the US GummyBearz Nov 2015 #79

That has been my experience also. Kath1 Nov 2015 #80

It's the same difference between 'moderate' Christians and Fundamentalists Matariki Dec 2015 #157

excellent post NJCher Nov 2015 #110

You are welcome. nt tblue37 Dec 2015 #111

None of that is remotely like covering a person's humanity head to toe Matariki Dec 2015 #155

Oh, I hope someday to be worthy to even walk in your shadow packman Nov 2015 #33

Nailed it. GoneOffShore Nov 2015 #35

Oh yeah - What you said. Fall on the sword constantly. nt. Juicy_Bellows Nov 2015 #73

How about passing judgment on -individual- people for how they dress? Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #34

This. nt msanthrope Dec 2015 #113

Yet you had a problem with the Femen women. polly7 Nov 2015 #41

Yes... not very consistent. /nt Marr Nov 2015 #61

It was extremely unsettling to me the first time I saw it. I suddenly realized that the burqa pnwmom Nov 2015 #64

We could always revisit the days of the Shan of Iran BainsBane Nov 2015 #67

Every day there are US women who are abused by their family members. pnwmom Nov 2015 #68

There are women abused in the US who aren't Muslim BainsBane Nov 2015 #70

Wow. cwydro Nov 2015 #71

I object to women being abused and I think requiring a woman to wear a burqa pnwmom Nov 2015 #72

I agree with you treestar Dec 2015 #139

So intolerance is bad? Like intolerance for women Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #82

*crickets* Coventina Nov 2015 #96

All this time, it seemed like you were a feminist or at least that you supported equality for women. xocet Nov 2015 #106

Perhaps you should listen BainsBane Dec 2015 #143

Perhaps you should go to Egypt, Jordan or elsewhere in the ME and learn something firsthand. xocet Dec 2015 #153

You're making good points Matariki Dec 2015 #154

Point taken. n/t xocet Dec 2015 #163

Well gosh dern it, Sillyfilly Dec 2015 #133

packman condemned the culture...not the people True Earthling Dec 2015 #136

Culture is not separate from people BainsBane Dec 2015 #142

People are born with culture? True Earthling Dec 2015 #160

I see groups of women out walking with their children in Niqabs ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #146

I've seen a woman in a niqabs at the local grocery store as well, no male escort though... Humanist_Activist Nov 2015 #14

one notices that men are not shamed into covering their heads and bodies nt msongs Nov 2015 #18

Exactly. Tipperary Nov 2015 #19

I'd like to force the ulema into manteau and scarf during summer in Teheran, and MADem Nov 2015 #21

And that's what it comes down to for me. It's patriarchal crap that needs to stop. Coventina Nov 2015 #23

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #49

It's not even religious riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #26

This burns me up. cwydro Nov 2015 #29

Agreed. It is extremely dehumanizing, IMO. hifiguy Nov 2015 #32

It is designed to turn women into shadows. Invisible. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #132

And faces and wrists Matariki Dec 2015 #156

Are you sure it wasn't a burqa? thereismore Nov 2015 #27

I had the same visceral experience the first time I saw a woman in a burqa. pnwmom Nov 2015 #30

I don't know. Seems like the men are insecure that they actually do the same thing as some... BlueJazz Nov 2015 #31

I don't really care what anybody is required to wear/not wear in their own church CanonRay Nov 2015 #37

I've only seen that once LiberalElite Nov 2015 #38

I saw it just this last year leftynyc Nov 2015 #93

I've seen some muslim women wearing the niqab around where I live. romanic Nov 2015 #39

keep in mind DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #40

Ah, sorry I didn't clarify packman Nov 2015 #42

actually DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #43

He said it was a niqab in the OP riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #44

Yes, that is my observation as well. nt Hekate Nov 2015 #66

I have seen women totally covered a few times in Los Angeles and canada Liberal_in_LA Nov 2015 #45

Though when I see them at Nordstroms buying jewelry flamingdem Nov 2015 #60

I know a woman who wears a Niquab gollygee Nov 2015 #46

Because a headscarf is totally innocuous leftynyc Nov 2015 #94

Obviously hijab and niqab are different, but... LoveIsNow Nov 2015 #47

Nun' s habits from not too long ago: MineralMan Nov 2015 #48

I'll bet those women pictured had much more of a choice than the typical woman Coventina Nov 2015 #58

I remember those from my childhood. Oddly enough, laywomen's dress in the Middle Ages was similar... Hekate Nov 2015 #65

Those women chose that life and that "costume." cwydro Nov 2015 #69

I'm sorry, whatever the reason, whatever the politics smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #50

I'm all for people wearing what they want but Skittles Nov 2015 #51

I see them from time to time here in north central NM Warpy Nov 2015 #53

I'm not Catholic. Is there any reasonable explanation... 3catwoman3 Nov 2015 #103

Middle Eastern cultures have always had a thing about women's hair Warpy Nov 2015 #104

"...so distracting to males." 3catwoman3 Nov 2015 #105

It's more that male privilege says they shouldn't have to bother Warpy Nov 2015 #108

This message was self-deleted by its author jeff47 Dec 2015 #158

Was she from Africa? leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #54

when they're standing with a guy wearing a tank top, shorts and flip-flops Skittles Nov 2015 #55

Wow leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #75

"her choice" Skittles Nov 2015 #84

I don't know. leftyladyfrommo Nov 2015 #86

Living in NYC I see Niqab's once in a while and it still is a bit unsettling. stevenleser Nov 2015 #56

I'm a feminist, not a multi-culturalist. I wouldn't like seeing that in my town. Dems to Win Nov 2015 #57

Thanks for your honesty flamingdem Nov 2015 #59

I know two women who wear Niqaab. Recursion Nov 2015 #74

Think a moment about what you expected me to do? packman Nov 2015 #76

Do you feel that about all heterosexual couples, or just ones dressed like that? Recursion Nov 2015 #77

Please - just go away packman Nov 2015 #78

That happened to me in Jersey City years ago KamaAina Nov 2015 #83

You actually yelled at a woman based on her clothing? Recursion Nov 2015 #87

Good heavens, no. I merely thought about it. KamaAina Nov 2015 #92

It's unfortunate that our instinct might be to tell her to dress differently... Orsino Nov 2015 #88

It's like a cage for women Aria36 Nov 2015 #90

Interesting responses. Daniel537 Nov 2015 #91

Or, you can vote Republican. packman Nov 2015 #95

I call BS on that. In such couples, the men are ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS dressed in Western clothes Coventina Nov 2015 #97

We can and do "cherry pick" which parts of a culture we like or not riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #98

As is covering your face in public. Matariki Dec 2015 #130

Univ of Missouri professor attacks female teen relative for not wearing hijab. riderinthestorm Nov 2015 #99

Glad he was arrested for child abuse. Good lesson for the asshole. Matariki Dec 2015 #131

kicking..... Coventina Nov 2015 #100

I still wonder why is the niqab/hijab so much more common ericson00 Nov 2015 #109

I guess it depends on how she feels about it. dilby Dec 2015 #112

And you don't see the difference between a wig and a garment that erases an entire identity? Coventina Dec 2015 #114

Are they both not worn for the same reason? dilby Dec 2015 #116

No, not at all. A wig covers one thing: hair. A niqab erases an entire person. Coventina Dec 2015 #117

Orthodox Jewish women wear it for one reason. dilby Dec 2015 #118

The problem is that the niqab does not allow women to be "free" even if they choose to wear it. Coventina Dec 2015 #120

+1 Matariki Dec 2015 #125

Thank you. Coventina Dec 2015 #126

So you want to remove it from a woman against her will. dilby Dec 2015 #134

If she is choosing to live here, in the US, yes. She needs to leave the bronze-age behind. Coventina Dec 2015 #135

Some places in the US it's against the law to go about in a mask Matariki Dec 2015 #159

Not exactly MosheFeingold Dec 2015 #152

Don't let some posters beat you up for this... culture shock is a 2 way street GummyBearz Dec 2015 #115

Tehran in the 60s. Before the Fundamentalists took over Matariki Dec 2015 #129

I've been arguing this point for years. sibelian Dec 2015 #119

A handful of women in my neighborhood wear them Matariki Dec 2015 #121

give everyone a break olddots Dec 2015 #123

I fly in and out of Paris and London a lot, so I'm used top seeing that DFW Dec 2015 #124

Wearing a head covering in church?...Jewish men wear yarmulkes in synagogue, hardly comparable whathehell Dec 2015 #127

You can't tell me that whole construct doesn't fuck some of these men up profoundly BeyondGeography Dec 2015 #128

Living in southeast Michigan, which has the largest Muslim American population.... marmar Dec 2015 #138

you must lead a very cloistered life. nt La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2015 #140

Not true - packman Dec 2015 #141

Your statement just sends a level of disgust in me. vaberella Dec 2015 #144

+1000 ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #148

"sends a level of disgust in me" packman Dec 2015 #161

"slight" vaberella Dec 2015 #164

The Land of the Free (???) and Home of the Brave(???). Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2015 #149

Head covering MosheFeingold Dec 2015 #151

I agree with you completely get the red out Dec 2015 #162

I encountered a scenario like that one summer day at a grocery store in southern Vermont. Vinca Dec 2015 #165