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Photographer

(1,142 posts)
Sat Dec 5, 2015, 12:01 AM Dec 2015

The Second Amendment must go: We ban lawn darts. It’s time to ban guns [View all]

http://www.salon.com/2015/12/04/the_second_amendment_must_go_we_ban_lawn_darts_its_time_to_ban_guns/

We are one nation, forever fucked by the NRA and an outdated and dangerous read of the Constitution. Let's fix it



Our youngest son just transitioned from crib to bed. Since we don’t plan to have any more children, we decided to sell the crib, a hand-me-down from his older brother. It’s a nice, well-made crib, made from real wood and bought from a reliable company. We could easily resell it for a handsome price, but we found out a few weeks ago that we can’t. It’s a drop side crib, and unbeknownst to us the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) banned the manufacture, sale, and resale of drop-sides in 2010, even though individuals can unadvisedly still use them. Drop-sides were responsible for more than 30 infant and toddler deaths in the decade prior to their ban, along with thousands of injuries. We hadn’t realized that our kid had been sleeping and playing in a death trap.

A few accidental deaths are often enough to ban certain items, or at the very least recall them, and often without much fanfare. It’s strange that we don’t have the same reaction to guns. Guns have killed many more infants and toddlers than drop-side cribs, not to mention older children, adolescents, and adults. Guns have killed many more than a host of other objects not originally designed to kill. Remember lawn darts? The CPSC banned the sale of the metal-tipped ones after three deaths and numerous serious injuries.

Yet when it comes to guns, we collectively do nothing, except spout off some strained political rhetoric every now and then, that is, after the most recent mass shooting. [Add in prayer here.] Or we dig in and cite our constitutional right to bear arms, which apparently trumps death, even the death of children. There’s a lot of room for debate regarding the meaning of the second amendment. I doubt very much that our “founding fathers” envisioned that right in its current form, but even if they did, it really shouldn’t matter. The framers of the constitution weren’t gods, meaning that their words aren’t—and shouldn’t be—sacrosanct.

We know this intuitively, since we’ve had to add numerous amendments to make up for their failures, lack, or just plain ignorance. But if we can add, we can also take away, by interpreting the Second Amendment differently or passing a new amendment that would effectively repeal it. We should never do so lightly, of course—taking away rights can be, and often is, a risky enterprise. But the purpose of a right should be individual and collective flourishing. A right, in other words, has as its goal the individual and common good, even if we don’t like to use such weighty moral terminology nowadays.

It’s not clear to me that gun ownership accomplishes that purpose. It seems more the case that it works against the good of all, in the havoc and murder it wreaks but also in the fear that in promotes. At the very least, we should have a discussion about the relationship of guns to the common good, instead of appealing like a fundamentalist to “rights” every time something happens that questions their value.

Guns don’t kill people, people do, someone will say. But people use guns to kill people, and it makes it much easier to do so, including on a mass scale. The idea that guns aren’t to blame but the actions of people is misguided and unthinking, to say the least. Specifically, it ignores what guns are for. A crib or, perhaps, a car, may kill under certain circumstances, but that’s not what a crib or a car is for. When death does result from their use, we assume that they have, in some way, been misused. At the very least, they have failed to fulfill their intended purpose, intentionally or not. Not so with a gun. The whole point of a gun is to injure or kill. Guns can certainly be used in other ways and for other reasons, such as sport, but these are secondary to its primary function. When a gun is used to injure or kill, it’s being used as intended. It’s the gun that’s at issue, because of the type of object that it is.

But the problem is irresponsible gun owners or criminals, not the overwhelming majority of law-abiding citizens who choose to own and use guns responsibly, people say. A fair point at one level, but most everyone’s responsible and law-abiding until they’re not. People in committed relationships usually go into them with fidelity in mind, yet infidelity is common and, often, unexpected. It’s similar with guns and gun owners. No “responsible” gun owner ever thinks he’ll ever misuse his gun—until he does something stupid, gets angry in the wrong place at the wrong time, leaves it unattended with children around, or simply snaps. Perhaps that doesn’t happen most of the time, but it happens frequently enough to raise questions, even though we usually don’t.

<snip>

Much more and worth the read at above link.
74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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and... Photographer Dec 2015 #1
Not naive at all... tecelote Dec 2015 #61
Come to think of it forsaken mortal Dec 2015 #2
Unless you've been living in a cave for the past 30 years, you can't buy them anymore. Photographer Dec 2015 #6
That's nice hack89 Dec 2015 #3
Sure. Can I suggest Somalia. They are very pro gun there. Photographer Dec 2015 #9
Rhode Island is pro-gun enough for me, thank you very much. Nt hack89 Dec 2015 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author Maynar Dec 2015 #59
Yay Cholera! Maynar Dec 2015 #60
Somalia has stricter gun laws than most US states. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #68
Better Than Somalia: How to Feel Good About Gun Violence Photographer Dec 2015 #71
Gunpolicy.org Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #73
Neat site. Photographer Dec 2015 #74
Gunners will be here to tell us it can't happen, their sick fondness for lethal weapons Hoyt Dec 2015 #4
No, all you have to do is create a plurality of the electorate who wish to jonno99 Dec 2015 #8
^ Spoken like someone who values guns more than the lives of their fellow Americans LonePirate Dec 2015 #14
Everything they said was true, whether you like it or not friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #17
Are you suggesting then that you're hoping for some dictatorial edict that will make right jonno99 Dec 2015 #34
There is no sufficient alternative to repealing the 2A, banning and confiscating all guns. LonePirate Dec 2015 #37
Well, see there I believe you are wrong. According to Bernie even, the vast majority of gun owners jonno99 Dec 2015 #42
You would also have to repeal... meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #62
Is ryan_cats Dec 2015 #40
What's the matter? GGJohn Dec 2015 #67
Its cant happen Travis_0004 Dec 2015 #46
Sounds like a plea. Hoyt Dec 2015 #65
I'll keep my rights, thanks anyway. ileus Dec 2015 #5
Will you be taking my cutlery as well? B2G Dec 2015 #7
Well, they are working on that in the UK (as you probably know)...nt jonno99 Dec 2015 #10
Not really, but do need a different interpretation, elleng Dec 2015 #11
Exactly. We just need to change ONE nutter Justice for a progressive one. SunSeeker Dec 2015 #57
If only! elleng Dec 2015 #58
I'll make you a deal B2G Dec 2015 #13
Why is your addiction to guns more important than thousands of lost lives every year? LonePirate Dec 2015 #15
"(A)ddiction to guns"? Are you a licensed telepsychologist, or merely playing one on the net? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #18
Until you gunbers start to value human lives more than guns, you're in no position to criticize. LonePirate Dec 2015 #24
I don't own a gun, so your remote sensing is on a par with your remote psychology friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #29
Very little difference between a gunner and someone who merely supports them. LonePirate Dec 2015 #31
Your claims to moral superiority have so far been made without evidence friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #33
What do evidence and morals have to do with one another? LonePirate Dec 2015 #35
I am no ones' moral superior- and neither are you. The Second Amendment is yours to repeal friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #48
I am not "addicted to guns" B2G Dec 2015 #19
Why not use an alarm system, a guard dog, some mace or a baseball bat? LonePirate Dec 2015 #22
paranoia requires guns Skittles Dec 2015 #41
Holy shit! It sounds as if you must have to protect yourself from violence on a nearly daily basis! Photographer Dec 2015 #16
You assume a lot. B2G Dec 2015 #20
As well as you seem to assume. I can only infer that your fear of bad people with you in their Photographer Dec 2015 #21
But did you have a fire extinguisher handy? If so, I must infer that you fear fire constantly. X_Digger Dec 2015 #25
I did. Not enough. First home fire for me and while I still have dreams about it I don't sleep wit Photographer Dec 2015 #27
I just had this same discussion with my niece's friend on Facebook. dflprincess Dec 2015 #44
I wouldn't be surprised. They've turned paranoia and fear into an art forms. Photographer Dec 2015 #47
Lol. Ok. B2G Dec 2015 #26
Try this on for size: If there weren't so many lethal weapons out there, there woul be less reason Photographer Dec 2015 #28
How many guns are already in circulation? B2G Dec 2015 #30
There's a shitload of both types. Photographer Dec 2015 #32
K&r RandySF Dec 2015 #23
That's like 10 OP's DashOneBravo Dec 2015 #36
Not at all. I edited that out because she found it offensive but I own it. Photographer Dec 2015 #38
Many find that offensive DashOneBravo Dec 2015 #43
I'm sorry. Can we have a hug now? Photographer Dec 2015 #45
Sure DashOneBravo Dec 2015 #49
I remember playing lawn darts back in the 70's. Fun game. Waldorf Dec 2015 #39
Disarm all the criminals first, then I'll happily disarm. Jester Messiah Dec 2015 #50
So I take it you've had a lot of problems with people firing at you in churches, theaters and clinic Photographer Dec 2015 #51
Where have the last few mass murders taken place? Jester Messiah Dec 2015 #52
In the Middle East. Is that where you live? Photographer Dec 2015 #54
*sigh.* Ok, fine, be disingenuous. Jester Messiah Dec 2015 #55
I don't base that decision on mass murders...because I'm not irrational. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #70
Ww had neighbors who had lawn jarts. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #53
K&R smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #56
The problem is not guns but the violent dialog promoted by conservative radio and conservatiave Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #63
Taking away the 2nd amendment will do what exactly? romanic Dec 2015 #64
Absolutely fuck-all, of course. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #69
Ban everything. bigwillq Dec 2015 #66
You need the votes of two thirds of Congress and three fourths of the state legislatures. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #72
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